nos question

[Alex tdi]

hi. i want too ask some that know better what nos system to use is better what nozzles sizes need to use for 50hp gain 70hp 100hp?

thanks for help

 

[RUGsux72]

NOS in your TDI???? You don't like you engine much do you?

 

[UsArmyTDI]

NOS is a nitrousoxyde system. and i dont think they make a kit for the tdi. and as said, you must not like your motor. the problem all of us are going to run in to is fuel and not having enough of it. so the question at hand is; in what situation are you in a "rich" condition that warrents the use of the oxydiser, wich is a form of forced induction?

 

[E-Z Wood]

Speak with a tuner about this type of matter. As long as you are tuned for it, there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[Bob_Fout]

A NOS system was used by Fifth Gear on a TDI some years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy9vy0pduMA

 

[Racing4funn]

IF you dont have a ton of fuel poring out the rear (black smoke all the time even under full boost) then nitrous wont help with power but might cool things down if kept in a extrem low shoot

If you are heavily fueled then buy a dry kit and start low and bump the jets up till the black smoke clears

 

[T'sTDI]

IF you dont have a ton of fuel poring out the rear (black smoke all the time even under full boost) then nitrous wont help with power but might cool things down if kept in a extrem low shoot

If you are heavily fueled then buy a dry kit and start low and bump the jets up till the black smoke clears

What do you mean it won't make more power? Your introducing more oxygen into the combustion chamber by force feeding it that much more air that it would not have under a normal scenario.

If your cleaning up smoke, your going to produce more power. If thats not the case, that defies every logic I've ever known about diesels. How could you not produce more power if your making better use of the fuel thats already there? Its not the like diesel fuel dissapears.. more of it is being used for combustion and consequentially, producing more energy and more power (cleaning up the exhaust in the process).

To the OP- you look like you have plenty of fuel to reap the benefits of a NOS system. However, NOS is very tough on an engine... You can expect a good amount of gains (if the fuel is alread there), but to what expense? A bottle you have to refill every so often and a lot more stress on internal components. I think the best way to run NOS would be 3rd gear and above, but I'm also not a tuner nor do I race down the track. I would talk to your tuner because running heavy amounts of NOS sky rockets cylinder pressures. You could be asking for blown headgaskets or even bent rods with the amount of power your running already, in additon to running NOS. I would make sure your engine is up for it internally and you may want to talk to your tuner about a "NOS tune" that takes into account the extra power.

 

[T'sTDI]

NOS is a nitrousoxyde system. and i dont think they make a kit for the tdi. and as said, you must not like your motor. the problem all of us are going to run in to is fuel and not having enough of it. so the question at hand is; in what situation are you in a "rich" condition that warrents the use of the oxydiser, wich is a form of forced induction?

You obviously did not look at his sig

12mm pump and dss ultime2... Big holes and a big pump...

His "rich" condition at WOT might resemble Kingsford charcoals out the exhaust

 

[ToeBall]

NOS can help, but not that much. A much better solution might be propane injection though. Diesels are designed to run lean so adding more oxygen will only lean them out more. Adding propane, on the other hand, not only burns in the combustion chamber, but also helps speed the burn of the diesel fuel there as well.

 

[T'sTDI]

NOS can help, but not that much. A much better solution might be propane injection though. Diesels are designed to run lean so adding more oxygen will only lean them out more. Adding propane, on the other hand, not only burns in the combustion chamber, but also helps speed the burn of the diesel fuel there as well.

I severly disagree... propane is not a better option. Propane is adding another fuel, Nitrous oxide is an oxidizer. The problem with propane is it can only be metered so well and since it moves through the engine by means of air flow (injected in the intake manifold) if you do not know what your doing, you can wind up causing massive amounts of pre detonation due to incorrect engine timing. Cylinder pressures can skyrocket and you can and will bend your pistons rods in due time, burn a hole in your piston, or send a rod through the side of the engine block rendering your engine worthless...

This is why most big truck power guys opt for nitrous down the dragstrip over propane. Propane will help with fuel economy, but it is because your burning two different fuels... you have to fill both of them up... The power increase is caused by the extra fuel of the propane which helps ensure a much cleaner burn of the diesel fuel already there. However, for means of power purposes, this can result in a disaster for your engine.

Stick with the nitrous... none of it is safe, but nitrous is a safer choice. Nitrous will help oxidize the fuel that is already there and will help ensure a more complete burn and more power.

The same goes with water methanol injection... Most people don't recommend over 13% by volume of methanol/water ratio but they sell it 50/50. Look it up on the internet... many piston rods through the sides of engine blocks running too much meth...

Meth addicion kills... NOS addition just costs a lot Pane addition is just asking for trouble I have no experience with any of it... but I also don't need to experiment to know that introducing more fuel to the fire is asking for disaster... Propane and Methanol are fuels... Nitrous Oxide is an oxidizer that helps burn the fuel already there.

 

[LNXGUY]

NOS can help, but not that much. A much better solution might be propane injection though. Diesels are designed to run lean so adding more oxygen will only lean them out more. Adding propane, on the other hand, not only burns in the combustion chamber, but also helps speed the burn of the diesel fuel there as well.

NOS = oxygen, Propane = fuel.

Two completely different things..

If he's smoking heavily under WOT, NOS will clean that up just fine. Propane will just make it 100 times worse.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

LNXGUY is 100 % correct. I used to run propane/diesel/NOS on my old set up on the Audi. No reason NOS should damage an engine if used properly with a controller.
http://www.noswizard.com/product_list.php?id=28

 

[TDIsyncro]

Nitrous Oxide is a good option. As already mentioned you would want to be able to produce heavy black smoke…ie lots of excess fuel without the nitrous. Since that is not a good or respectable plan on the street you can get a tune that defaults to max MAF reading when the MAF connector is unplugged. You will then be streetable and race ready at same time. The next problem you run into is excess EMP because you will be trying to sqeeze too much exhaust through a tiny turbine. Install an EMP gauage. And if you are really serious, install an external waste gate and set opening pressure above standard boost range and by some experimentation. Nitrous should be a dry system, and staged jets or PWM controlled solenoid, as nitrous feed rate needs to increase proportional (mostly) to RPM. Nitrous also has a nice cooling effect in EGT and does reduce exhaust volume some what. (PV/T=PV/T - simplified explanation).
Set it up and show us some results. Please do not dyno this set-up on an inertia roll dyno set-up pleazzz or your numbers will make our eyes roll over backwards.

 

[UsArmyTDI]

You obviously did not look at his sig

12mm pump and dss ultime2... Big holes and a big pump...

His "rich" condition at WOT might resemble Kingsford charcoals out the exhaust

i didnt, and im sorry about that. but still, there are many people who have verry simmler setups, and to cure the problem of over fueling the choice is a larger turbo. by the time you spend the money on the NO2 system and begin to refill the tanks, you have baught a new turbo. and you still have the problem of smoke on the street cause its ilegal to run NO2 on the street

edit: i just noticed he has a big turbo. then the problem is breathing mods. i would begin to add other breathing mods. DSG R32 TIP (intake tube and air box) tube intake manifold, maby a cam and larger valves, head porting, FMIC, exc. i know the moneys involved are huge. but again its a perminate fix. not a bandaid to the problem like NO2 is. and again, the legalitys of it. and it could also be in the tune its self.

 

[T'sTDI]

i didnt, and im sorry about that. but still, there are many people who have verry simmler setups, and to cure the problem of over fueling the choice is a larger turbo. by the time you spend the money on the NO2 system and begin to refill the tanks, you have baught a new turbo. and you still have the problem of smoke on the street cause its ilegal to run NO2 on the street

Good point but this guy is way above all of that... He might have every breathing modification done to his car and is just about maxed out within the limits of the bore of the engine itself...

2260 is a huge turbo... Anything less than that turbo, NOS should not be the answer to overfueling and yes your correct, addressing other breathing mods is the answer.

Not sure what the laws are overseas, but I know in the US if you get caught with a NOS system in your car, you are in BIG time trouble...

NOS isn't a viable option on the street, only on the track.

 

[TDIsyncro]

I missed the GTB2260VK in the sig as well...yes that is big for VE pump engine. It is hard to say there is advantage of nitrous in that case...unless he wants to baby the turbo.

 

[T'sTDI]

If this was my car, I would have the nitrous system engaged by a switch on the floor controlled by the go pedal. Once the go pedal is pushed to the floor, the system engages. I would also have the entire system placed on a master switch that could turn the system on/off at any moment.

The reason for this... you have PLENTY of power for gears 1 and 2 where traction is probably near non exsistent. If you add nitrous to this... its only going to make things worse. Run the car through gears 1 and 2 without nitrous and as soon as you make the shift to gear 3, flip the master switch to turn the nitrous on. This eases the stress on axles, clutch, transmission, tires and you will be able to put that 300HP beast to the road without roasting the tires.

You can get as sophisticated with this as you want to... I see that you have lowered your CR which is a wonderful thing for nitrous. I would experiment with different size jets until the smoke clears up visble within the rear view window.

This would ensure the most amount of power with the least amount of stress on components. That thing will absolutely fly... Don't know if you have ran it on the track but without a doubt, low 13's AKA hold the EF on!!

 

[UsArmyTDI]

I would go with the other breathing mods first. Or go with a 11mmIP coupled with a PD LP. That would give him more fuel in the higher rpm range. But thas dependant on the tune. Or bore it to a larger piston. But then your negativly affecting the rod/stroke ratio. I'm a fan of bore (83mm pistons) and a stroker kit (100mm stroke) to put it to a 2.1 (28xx cc) motor with a more accepted rod/stroke ratio. Butthat woul still require head machineing at a minimum. So go with breathing mods first. If that dosent work, then you have the other 2 options I have said

 

[hatemi]

http://www.youtube.com/user/AxxxLxxxL#p/u/10/xX_qZAwUTmM

Thats his car. He is way past 11mm pump and stupid VW intake upgrades And has the fuel to burn with nitrous.

 

[UsArmyTDI]

but he dosent look to be smoking that bad. what kind of boost is he pushing? what kind of intake manifold? what kind of head/porting?

if every thing else is maxed out, and there is not a larger turbo option, then its time to go to a larger displacement motor. bore it and stroke it. should have no problem with smoke. if there is still smoke after that, then bottle feed it. i just wnat video of it after the bore and stroke. but im shure ryanP as some sort of turbo option for the car.

 

[devonutopia]

I have 100 shot nozzle in mine, but suspect it is overkill. I don't feel a great increase in power when using it, so know it doesn't add 50hp or something. Might be because my tune is relatively clean so there is probably not that much excess fuel, or maybe simply the engine cannot push that bit more for some reason.

 

[VWBeamer]

N2O is not going to hurt the engine. It will lower the EGTs and help it burn all the fuel. Propane, or anyother fuel ou add to the manifold is much more dangerious.

You have be careful with the fuel you add to the manifold, but N20 you can about as much as you want.

 

[T'sTDI]

Not necessarily true... NOS can hurt the motor... Think about it, if your overfueling and you add NOS to add even more air in the combustion chamber, this will skyrocket cylinder pressures. Your EGT's will lower, you will make more power, but your making more power than the engine is capable of without the nitrous. An engine that is already pushing the limits internally (argument for another day) and then add another 25-50 HP and 50-100 lbs of torque at an almost instant is what makes it hard on the motor. Its the extra energy, extra power that the engine is turning that can blow up the engine, not necessarily the NOS itself.

If your engine is not built to handle the extra horsepower that the NOS brings it to, then it is unsafe and your engine might possibly give out and blow up. If the engine is built strong internally and to a certain degree built with NOS in mind, you should have no problems.

Most people that add NOS to their cars just add the NOS and don't necessarily think about how much extra stress 50-100 HP is on their engine. Think about it... you more than double your stock output and the talk is about upgraded connecting rods and lower the CR to add more fuel and boost safely without blowing headgaskets. The same theory holds true here...

That video leads me to believe NOS isn't going to add much power. That is pretty clean if you ask me... I was very surprised... Time for bigger holes if they make them bigger.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Not necessarily true... NOS can hurt the motor... Think about it, if your overfueling and you add NOS to add even more air in the combustion chamber, this will skyrocket cylinder pressures. Your EGT's will lower, you will make more power, but your making more power than the engine is capable of without the nitrous. An engine that is already pushing the limits internally (argument for another day) and then add another 25-50 HP and 50-100 lbs of torque at an almost instant is what makes it hard on the motor. Its the extra energy, extra power that the engine is turning that can blow up the engine, not necessarily the NOS itself.

If your engine is not built to handle the extra horsepower that the NOS brings it to, then it is unsafe and your engine might possibly give out and blow up. If the engine is built strong internally and to a certain degree built with NOS in mind, you should have no problems.

The same applies to any mod that adds extra power to an engine if the engine is not built to hold the power. NOS is no more dangerous then any other way to raise power of an engine if used properly.

 

[UsArmyTDI]

I'm with Ts. Every guru I have talked to about my plans have al said the same thing, fuel will be the biggest issue. Getting enough fuel in there to take advantage of the air.

 

[hatemi]

295hp with 2.4bar. And to me I could have gained some with NOS

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[Alex tdi]

i run 2.4-2.5 bar boost with big valves ported head. afr is around 17:1 on this video. but thats not all fuel that nozzless could give.

 

[loudspl]

I use it with laptop-programmable PWM progressive controller. Works great

Start small on nozzle size and increase to desired level

Make sure solenoid is in good condition and use a N20 filter pre-solenoid to avoid contamination in the line

As for even more fuel.....wonder if anyone here has tried CNG?? Seems to be a better offering with more resistance to pre-ignition vs. propane

 

[zizala]

That's how I've tried N2O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFw-Vsb9O64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaIkVMkvH9w

 

[VWBeamer]

Thanks, that what I meant, it's as safe as any mod, and safer than adding fuel to the manifold.

The same applies to any mod that adds extra power to an engine if the engine is not built to hold the power. NOS is no more dangerous then any other way to raise power of an engine if used properly.