Nokian Fraud

20IndigoBlue02

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That's why Consumer Reports is the most reputable.

CR buys everything they test from local retailers.


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Your statement about VW/Audi TDI's makes no sense to me when I am shopping for tires please elaborate.
If you're writing off a company for "cheating" when it came to consumer reviewing magazines....

then you might as well get rid of your VW for cheating their testing to meet government emissions standards so that they can sell their product.

Same principle
 

MichaelB

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OK I already have a TDI so I have it. I can't do a thing about the VW scandal. If I knew that VW wasn't an honest co before I bought it I would have second thoughts about them too.(what other things did they lie about)But if I know that Nikian fudged the data and their product, wouldn't you have a second thought about the integrity of the product and the co before you buy? Would you blindly just buy it and try it out anyway? I don't feel that is the same principle at all.
 
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20IndigoBlue02

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I would still buy another Nokian product (wallet pending) as I've been happy with the WR G3 and the Hakka RSI.

Plus, as I mentioned earlier
That's why Consumer Reports is the most reputable.

CR buys everything they test from local retailers.
Because they buy their test samples, not ask for them like other magazines, they eliminate the tainted test sample aspect.

Yes, they rate the Hakka R2 high, but they knocked the enTYRE 2.0 for faster wear than its UTQG wear rating suggested.
 

SoTxBill

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That's why Consumer Reports is the most reputable.

CR buys everything they test from local retailers.


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved
But they slew all their tests towards green...

Now we have washing machines that save water but don't clean... muti companies selling electric power( and the price only went up).... Forcing safety standards on all products. Even a mouse trap cant kill mice anymore. Guns that dont kill. Ice picks and chain saws that dont work.... They much too often slew towards clean vrs best or most economical.. And dont even get me started on gmo foods.... we have been picking and breeding plants for over a 2000 years now.. cross breds, hybreds, grafting trees, disease resistant crops, pitless fruits, insect resistance, etc... even bananas are synthetic fruits and then........ GMO will somehow end the world? Hasn't in the first 2000 years...
 

MichaelB

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I would still buy another Nokian product (wallet pending) as I've been happy with the WR G3 and the Hakka RSI.

Plus, as I mentioned earlier


Because they buy their test samples, not ask for them like other magazines, they eliminate the tainted test sample aspect.

Yes, they rate the Hakka R2 high, but they knocked the enTYRE 2.0 for faster wear than its UTQG wear rating suggested.
OK I get it with you. Your happy with Nokian but the tests of their tires are a lie. Don't be so so defensive of a product that you are happy with from a company that skewed the real deal that you or I would purchase.. The end result is Nokian lied about the performance of the tires they manufacture and sell to the general public.
 
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20IndigoBlue02

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OK I get it with you. Your happy with Nokian but the tests of their tires are a lie. Don't be so so defensive of a product that you are happy with from a company that skewed the real deal that you or I would purchase.. The end result is Nokian lied about the performance of the tires they manufacture and sell to the general public.
Maybe selective parts of what I write what you're comprehending. I'll try to type slower for you.

Consumer Reports buys their test samples from local sources, which eliminates the tampering manufacturers will do to get at an advantage on a magazine review.

This includes all of their automobiles and accessories.

When magazines ask manufacturers for samples to test, manufacturers have the opportunity (and will seize on it) to send in a tweaked sample, in hopes to get a better magazine review (and/or win a comparison test).

Nokian did cheat, but they are several orders of magnitude below what VW did. Nokian did not cheat a governing body to say, claim their winter tires meet the minimum requirements of the RMA severe service traction test.

VW did cheat the EPA and EU to sell their products.

So, if you're going to write off Nokian, then you should get rid of your VW, because what VW did is a lot worse than Nokian.
 

Savageman69

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if you were to stop buying products that use lies to sell them....well you wouldnt buy just about anything...your naive if you think these are the only lies being told to you.
 

MichaelB

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if you were to stop buying products that use lies to sell them....well you wouldnt buy just about anything...your naive if you think these are the only lies being told to you.
Many times I can't tell if I'm being lied to, none of us can but when I find out that product gets dropped off my list. And no I do not believe everything we purchase as advertised is a lie. Do you think every advertised description of a product you buy is a lie? Just to use an example do you feel a product like Power Service is a snake oil lie? If so I would not buy that either. There is a law called truth in advertising and those that don't tell the truth get busted just like Nokian.
 
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whitedog

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Great... now we have Tiregate.

Where would we be if it had been a Holiday Inn instead of Watergate?
 

geoman

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my experience with nokian hakka r's(made in Finland) made me a quasi spokesperson for the brand to anyone that would listen. it only seemed natural that the workmanship & quality would go into everything they manufactured, right?
so I purchased a set of 4 entyres(made in Russia). quiet, good on dry, so-so in the rain, all seemed well until some increasingly loud knocking revealed wires were showing through with far less than the normal service life of the tire.(I replaced them with conti truecontact & am very pleased.)
when my winters needed replacing I chose hakka r2. I experienced better fuel econ w/my old hakka r's despite claims that improvements were made across the board. now perhaps I know why...
 

whitedog

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There probably wouldn't be anymore Holiday Inn's. People don't like being lied to. Do you?
Maybe there was a lack of communication on my part. I was commenting on the fact that every time a scandal comes up, it ends up being a (xxxxx)-gate, taken from the Watergate scandal:

(From Wikipedia)

Watergate was a major political scandal that occurred in the United States in the 1970s, following a break-in at the Democratic National Committee (DNC) headquarters at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C. and President Richard Nixon's administration's attempted cover-up of its involvement
See, I was wondering what all of these scandals would be called if the DNC HQ was at a Holiday Inn and Forrest Gump had found out about it there.

The scandal wouldn't have been called Watergate, see it could have been called "The Holiday Inn Scandal" which doesn't ring as well as "Watergate" (and from there, Dieselgate and now Tiregate).

First clue that a joke failed is when you have to explain it.
 

tadawson

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And yeah, I fully believe that just about any ad has at least some misrepresentation in it . . . "Lies, damn lies, and marketing . . . " And the harder something is advertised, the more likely it is to be crap (or full thereof). But yeah, the fine print and weasel-wording makes it legal "Speeds up to 25000256MB/Sec with Barfco internet!" Yeah, well *ZERO* meets that claim as well . . . so I call it a lie. And the diet pills where the fine print says "with an appropriate exercise program" basically telling you the pill does nothing, and the result comes from getting off your arse . . . as so forth . . . It's all a deliberate, glorified misrepresentation . . .

- Tim
 

MichaelB

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And yeah, I fully believe that just about any ad has at least some misrepresentation in it . . . "Lies, damn lies, and marketing . . . " And the harder something is advertised, the more likely it is to be crap (or full thereof). But yeah, the fine print and weasel-wording makes it legal "Speeds up to 25000256MB/Sec with Barfco internet!" Yeah, well *ZERO* meets that claim as well . . . so I call it a lie. And the diet pills where the fine print says "with an appropriate exercise program" basically telling you the pill does nothing, and the result comes from getting off your arse . . . as so forth . . . It's all a deliberate, glorified misrepresentation . . .

- Tim
So don't believe anything and don't buy anything because its all just a lie. What do you believe? My point as the OP in this thread was that Nokian got caught. Now others have justified Nokian's lie with "everybody lies" so they are sanctified eh? Have a nice day.
 

tadawson

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Hard technical specifications, independent tests, and personal experience are the things I trust. In 54 years, I have zero memory of ever buying anything based on advertising, although some advertising has caused me to avoid things.

In this context, if Nokian continues to independent test well and performs, I don't care what games they played with the shill media . . .

- Tim
 

MichaelB

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Hard technical specifications, independent tests, and personal experience are the things I trust. In 54 years, I have zero memory of ever buying anything based on advertising, although some advertising has caused me to avoid things.

In this context, if Nokian continues to independent test well and performs, I don't care what games they played with the shill media . . .

- Tim
I guess you support Nokians Lies as just a part of doing business and you don't care that they did it. No matter how good their product may be I just can't support it. There are other tire companies from which I can choose from. In my book Nokian blue it they lied to me. Lets just move on, this discussion is going no where. All you lemmings can jump into the sea because they all do. Nuf said.
 

Tureq

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Continental have been caught on cheating on test tyres, and Pirelli too.
Nokian has been under serious investigations but haven't been able to prove that.

Nokian told themselves that they have been cheating. Haven't done so in last two years.
 

tadawson

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I guess you support Nokians Lies as just a part of doing business and you don't care that they did it. No matter how good their product may be I just can't support it. There are other tire companies from which I can choose from. In my book Nokian blue it they lied to me. Lets just move on, this discussion is going no where. All you lemmings can jump into the sea because they all do. Nuf said.
Indifferent is the best term I can use. Giving the shill (read: irrelevant) rags a tweaked test item is hardly illegal, although a bit unethical . . . and it's not like those shill rags are impartial to begin with. Ever notice how the products with the biggest ads seem to always get the love, even if the product is a known, documented turd? It's just a game they play, and it frankly bores me . . Actual product performance an quality is all that interests me, not what some hack was paid to write about it.

- Tim
 

turboboost1

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Maybe there was a lack of communication on my part. I was commenting on the fact that every time a scandal comes up, it ends up being a (xxxxx)-gate, taken from the Watergate scandal:

(From Wikipedia)



See, I was wondering what all of these scandals would be called if the DNC HQ was at a Holiday Inn and Forrest Gump had found out about it there.

The scandal wouldn't have been called Watergate, see it could have been called "The Holiday Inn Scandal" which doesn't ring as well as "Watergate" (and from there, Dieselgate and now Tiregate).

First clue that a joke failed is when you have to explain it.
Or would it now be called TireInn..........
 

Fix_Until_Broke

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Regardless of the media or hype or not, etc - the proof is in the pudding and how well they perform.

I've run Hakka 5's for the last 4 winters now and they've performed very well, though they were very expensive as well. I've run winterforce's as well and while they work well, they take a significant snow/ice performance hit after they're 1/3 worn out due to the pyramid design of the tread blocks so while they're very cheap, they don't last very long.

I'm going to try General Altimax artic's or Hankook iPike's next - they're half the money and betting they'll last more than half as long - have to see how well they actually perform though. The hankook's are a very similar design to the Hakka's so hoping they'll perform equally.
 

Wilkins

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I'm happy with my Nokians having run two sets of RSI and one set of Entyre to the end of their service life. That included one RSI which didn't blow out with major sidewall damage from a pothole. My wife couldn't figure out why the car was shaking so she drove all the way home... 1000 miles. Wish they weren't so expensive.
 
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