No stick shift diesels

[RalphVa]

We've driven stick shift diesels for 40 years. Wife has only ever driven automatic cars twice: 1) my dad's once where she slammed on the brake in going for the clutch, 2) a rental VW on the interstate. Gotta have a stick shift.

Seems the ONLY vehicles with stick shift, heated seats and fog lights are Mazda3 and VW Jetta that get 40+ mpg in EPA highway mode, which has generally been our overall average mpg + a tad. BMW's 320 only does 37 mpg.

There are no stick shift diesels for sale.

Guess it's likely a Mazda3. Don't like only 5 speed on the VW.

Have submitted procedure for the buyback.

 

[AnotherPerson]

The golf will have a manual coming. But most dealerships won't stock them so it will be special order. No more Passat tho.


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[IndigoBlueWagon]

So if you've always driven manual transmission diesels and are sad because there aren't any available right now, why are you selling your car back? I'd hang on to it!

BTW, I'm waiting until the fix is in place for the remaining '15s in dealer stock and plan on buying one in part because I want one more new TDI with a manual.

 

[ZippyNH]

Sounds like you should take the $$ and keep the car.....put off what you buy a few years....heck maybe a 2015 VW used or even new....
Nothing says you must but a "new car"heck...a newer version of what you have might be better.
Sticks are getting rare....and a gasser stick is a different experience to be 100% honest...

 

[AnotherPerson]

So if you've always driven manual transmission diesels and are sad because there aren't any available right now, why are you selling your car back? I'd hang on to it!

BTW, I'm waiting until the fix is in place for the remaining '15s in dealer stock and plan on buying one in part because I want one more new TDI with a manual.

Have you found any left? We had a bunch here but since the stop sale they are all gone.


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[IndigoBlueWagon]

Lots of dealers have them, but they're not visible on their sites. Call around. For example, only one dealer here in MA shows them on their site, but there are two others who have 68 and 15 respectively. But you'd have to call to find out.

 

[Lightflyer1]

My dealer in Austin has a whole lot full of them. I am on the call list for when something starts to happen. 2015 Passat TDI SEL.

 

[bizzle]

Will that have a manual?

The '15s I looked at only had manuals in the S trim, which was a downgrade from my '12 JSW in nearly every way.

If I had a manual, though, I probably wouldn't be giving it up.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Golf and Jetta TDIs were offered with manuals available in all trim levels in 2015. Higher trim level manuals were more difficult to find, but they were available. The Passat had a manual only in the base trim.

 

[bizzle]

Sorry, I meant to specify in my post that I was only looking at '15 sportwagens.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Manuals available in all trim levels of the GSW, too. But hard to find in the higher trim levels.

 

[ZippyNH]

And just too note....heated seats can be added for about $500 to most any car...
Just cam back from dropping off the 2nd car at a dealer...
Had heated fabric, professionally installed for $495, think it was $695 on leather ...a 3rd party comes in to install them...
The CR-V we dropped off has the aftermarket leather seats and are heated.....both dealer add on's.
Both items look 100% factory....was actually done before we bought the car and has a full warrenty...
So imo, don't even put them on the list, they are non-factors.

 

[bizzle]

Manuals available in all trim levels of the GSW, too. But hard to find in the higher trim levels.

They were JSWs in the back of the lot, not GSWs. Does that mean I was looking at 2014s and were manuals still available in all trim levels for those models?

It could have just been an inventory issue.This was right at the beginning of the stop sale and I read here that people were getting some dealers to sell new ones as used so I was trying to convince one of the nearby dealerships to do it, too.

I also looked at 2016 GSW gasser and maybe that only comes with a stick in the S trim. I could be confusing the two. Hard to tell anymore, I've been on a dozen lots and looked at and driven nearly every car out there over this past year

 

[S2000_guy]

As I remember it, manual transmissions were available on all trim levels for the '14 JSW TDI. I own an SE (pano moonroof, heated pleather seats, backup camera, etc.) with a six-speed manual. I believe the six-speed manual was also available on the SEL (add nav and keyless ignition), but I don't have actual experience putting my hands on one.

 

[South Coast Guy]

I used to have mechanical brakes. You will get used to an automatic transmission.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

After commuting in stop and go traffic (often 2+ hrs each way) for the past year with a manual transmission...I can't wait to get something with an automatic transmission (that's why I was new car shopping just before the news broke). I had nothing but manual transmissions for years (my fourth manual VW), but I'm done with manual daily drivers.

 

[HBarlow]

There was a time some years ago when a manual transmission was what I wanted to drive. The pleasure has passed for me.

The quality of modern automatic transmissions like the DSG or Aisin are superior in every way in my opinion.

I suspect interest and demand for manual transmissions is waning and manufacturers know this.

 

[tactdi]

I suspect interest and demand for manual transmissions is waning and manufacturers know this.

The opposite of "Build it and they will come",
"Don't Build it and they cannot buy it"

Automatics allow better control of emissions, but I/we loose control of the car. With high number of gears (6, 7, 8, 9, etc), the engine can stay in its optimum emissions RPM range, with the transmission shifting.

I also have a 2013 Jetta with the DSG (but no paddles), when I drive it, I leave it in Sport mode, up shifts from a stop (with a light throttle) are at a higher RPM, in "Drive", as soon as RPMs hit about 2000 it upshifts, which bogs/slows the car down.

 

[HBarlow]

The opposite of "Build it and they will come",
"Don't Build it and they cannot buy it"

Automatics allow better control of emissions, but I/we loose control of the car. With high number of gears (6, 7, 8, 9, etc), the engine can stay in its optimum emissions RPM range, with the transmission shifting.

I also have a 2013 Jetta with the DSG (but no paddles), when I drive it, I leave it in Sport mode, up shifts from a stop (with a light throttle) are at a higher RPM, in "Drive", as soon as RPMs hit about 2000 it upshifts, which bogs/slows the car down.

The TDI engine produces peak torque from 1750 - 2250 rpm. The DSG is programmed to take advantage of the torque curve.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The TDI engine produces peak torque from 1750 - 2250 rpm. The DSG is programmed to take advantage of the torque curve.

Not really. It's programmed to meet emissions () and fuel economy standards. Those may be exclusive of what makes the car best to drive.

I drove a '15 Golf with a DSG when they were launched and it would shift from 1st to 2nd at 1500 RPM at light to moderate pedal application. Clearly not taking advantage of the torque curve.

 

[S2000_guy]

There was a time some years ago when a manual transmission was what I wanted to drive. The pleasure has passed for me.

The quality of modern automatic transmissions like the DSG or Aisin are superior in every way in my opinion.

I suspect interest and demand for manual transmissions is waning and manufacturers know this.

When I bought my '14 TDI SE, it was available with both a 6-speed manual and a 6-speed DSG.

The DSG cost about $1100 more to purchase than the 6MT. Its EPA mileage rating was about 5% lower than the 6MT. It requires a somewhat pricey (IMHO) service every 40k miles.

YEP, definitely superior in every way...

 

[South Coast Guy]

When I bought my '14 TDI SE, it was available with both a 6-speed manual and a 6-speed DSG.

The DSG cost about $1100 more to purchase than the 6MT. Its EPA mileage rating was about 5% lower than the 6MT. It requires a somewhat pricey (IMHO) service every 40k miles.

YEP, definitely superior in every way...

Mileage for auto rated at 38 mpg (gasser) with DSG; 40 mpg with manual. Local mileage rating is the same; 28 mpg. 40K service means the average driver will have the service performed every three years. I don't think that is burdensome.

I have found the DSG mated well with the torque curve of my car. Nice to drive while keeping both hands on the wheel.

 

[APT]

...a '15 Golf with a DSG ...would shift from 1st to 2nd at 1500 RPM at light to moderate pedal application. Clearly not taking advantage of the torque curve.

If the accel pedal was light to moderate, then you didn't need any boost for that peak torque. The DSG does exactly what it should, keep the lowest engine speed for the requested load. The advantage a manual has is the driver may predict he will want to use that torque soon, within a few seconds maybe, so he holds the gear when ready to pounce. Then it is generally quicker to spool the turbo than downshift and spool.

While I prefer a manual most of the time, the DSG has been fine. It does like to spend more time in the 1100-1400rpm range resulting in some lag when desired, but it is far better than conventional gas/auto. My solution is let the auto upshift and then I slide to M to hold lower gears when I think I'll want to continue accelerating soon.

 

[Max Period]

Not really. It's programmed to meet emissions () and fuel economy standards. Those may be exclusive of what makes the car best to drive.

I drove a '15 Golf with a DSG when they were launched and it would shift from 1st to 2nd at 1500 RPM at light to moderate pedal application. Clearly not taking advantage of the torque curve.

On my Gen 1 dieselgate car, The DSG will not let RPM drop below 1000 ever unless the clutch is disengaged at very low road speeds.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

After driving TDIs with DSG/S-Tronic for the last two months, I can honestly say I hate the thing. Downshifts all the way to 1st at every stop, upshifts between 1600 to 1800 rpm unless I'm practically flooring it, just retarded. No wonder you have to have the fluid replaced every 40k miles. It's WAY too "busy."

I actually prefer the CVT in my wife's Subaru over a DSG.

 

[RalphVa]

My wife is extremely uncomfortable driving an automatic car. We just drove an auto up to Butler, Pa to pick up our new Mazda3 sGrandTouring. At one point, she came off the main highway and pulled the gearshift down from Drive over to the "-" paddle area. Luckily, she did not slam her foot on the brake in going for the clutch. She's been know to do this with autos.

Both of us got very tired of the false glow plug light and check engine lights. I bought a Vagcom to turn off the check engine light because it was always the false turbo boost one. Nothing wrong with the car, just something with the sensors.

VW lost out in the car test of 40 mpg cars. The testers picked the Mazda3. Same back in 2012, a VW TDI lost out to a Mazda3 in testing. Can get 40 mpg in a gas engine car now. Didn't in this first tankful, of course. Consumer Reports got 41 and more highway mpg in Mazda3s.

Does not hold cruise speed as precisely as the VW TDI. The old 240D was the same way unless it ran out of power on a very long grade. Waiting to see how the Maz will do going over the W. Virginia mountains to Columbus where our daughter is.

 

[RalphVa]

After driving TDIs with DSG/S-Tronic for the last two months, I can honestly say I hate the thing. Downshifts all the way to 1st at every stop, upshifts between 1600 to 1800 rpm unless I'm practically flooring it, just retarded. No wonder you have to have the fluid replaced every 40k miles. It's WAY too "busy."

I actually prefer the CVT in my wife's Subaru over a DSG.

We drove a rental Jetta 2.5 with DSG back from Columbus once. Rather awful rough engine. Couldn't understand the need for the silly paddles. Tried them. Did nothing for me or for performance.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

2.5L Jettas have conventional 6-speed automatics.

 

[S2000_guy]

My wife is extremely uncomfortable driving an automatic car. We just drove an auto up to Butler, Pa to pick up our new Mazda3 sGrandTouring. At one point, she came off the main highway and pulled the gearshift down from Drive over to the "-" paddle area. Luckily, she did not slam her foot on the brake in going for the clutch. She's been know to do this with autos.
...

A few years ago, I accompanied my wife on a test drive. The dealer didn't have a manual, so she drove an automatic. Just as I expected, she accelerated to about 10 mph, then moved her left foot and reached for the shifter. Needless to say, her left foot hit the brake pedal.

I'd likely have done the same myself.

A few years earlier, we were helping her brother move from one city to another. I ended up coming home to care for the pets; she drove her brother's car to the destination city. She called me about midnight, because his car wouldn't start. We discussed symptoms, and discovered that it wasn't in "Park."

Automatics impose a learning curve on those of us who have never driven them.

 

[tikal]

VW lost out in the car test of 40 mpg cars. The testers picked the Mazda3. Same back in 2012, a VW TDI lost out to a Mazda3 in testing. Can get 40 mpg in a gas engine car now. Didn't in this first tankful, of course. Consumer Reports got 41 and more highway mpg in Mazda3s.

How did "VW lost out in the car test of 40 mpg cars" and "the testers picked the Mazda3."????

I can see that Mazda has made good advances in making a very efficient gasoline car but that does not mean that they can consistently beat the mileage of a modern light duty diesel car such as the Jetta, Golf and Passat TDIs (or any other brand available in the US such as BMW or Mercedes in the same class). One thing is to do a test in a track and another is to go look up Fuelly and see millions and millions of miles tracked at the pump. The "Central Theorem" applies here like in many other long term averages.

A quick cursory look at Fuelly.com shows the following rough averages for years 2013-15:

* Mazda 3 sedan, gasoline engine 2.0L: total miles logged 1,959,374 AVERAGE MPG = 33.4
* VW Jetta sedan, diesel engine 2.0L: total miles logged 6,658,532 AVERAGE MPG = 40.4

There are a few other variations of engines for the Mazda 3 but you are going to end up in the same ball park average. Please do your own research and tell me this is not even close (almost a 21% improvement). It is like by how many points the USA basketball team beat Serbia at the Rio Olympics

I cannot imagine how you can reverse these results through a "test" and if so what is more important for you: the expected life time average MPG of a car while you own it or a single test?