No start, no fuel, and new pumps

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
I have a 2015 Jetta TDI. I've had all sortd of issues with it lately, but the most recent has me stumped and I'm hoping for some advice.

I just recently replaced the HPFP about, 1000 miles ago. No metal noticed in pump or filter. Last week I noticed that I was getting slightly lower fuel mileage on the way home. Made it all the way home, including driving up my steep driveway without any issue. It would not crank up the next morning.
I cracked open the fuel lines on the injectors and I was getting fuel. Realized later that I was only getting a spurt of fuel from the in tank pump. Replaced it and now I'm getting fuel into the HPFP but nothing is coming out of the HPFP. I took the metering valve off and it's clean as a whistle.

I swapped the metering valve out from my old pump and while a little quieter, it didn't help any. Still no fuel at the injector line.

I disconnected the incoming line into the filter, and turn the ignition on and it would just spurt fuel. With both the new and old pump. Could the new pump be bad as well?
 

pedroYUL

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2004 wagon BEW(brother)
Go to basic settings in the engine module with VCDS and turn on the "transfer pump". That is the in-tank pump, referred as lift pump in PD engines.

Run that pump some 3 times and then try cranking.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Back the FailTrain up a bit, as we don't even know why it left the station.

Why did you replace the HPFP in the first place?

Are there any DTCs? Does the rail pressure sensor value build quickly as soon as you start cranking the engine?
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
LOL Failtrain I like that. Sooooo..... the short version of the long story......

Back in November I decided to change my timing belt. My best guess is that I didn't tighten the idler pulley for the timing belt correctly. Belt slipped and bent valves ensued. Local VW mechanic said he could rebuild the head in 2 or 3 weeks for about $2500. Ok Bet, let's do that. Well after about 3 months of my car sitting under a pine tree with the head off and nothing covering the oil passages, nor any grease on the block face to keep rust from accumulating, I finally got him to put it back together. It ran, but my best description of how it sounded, would be the sound you would imagine a 1940's diesel would that was just barely in time. Well in March I had a tow truck pick up me car and I was able to determine that the 1940's diesel noise was a rocker arm that was not seated right. Well it finally broke and the car actually sounded almost normal. Took the valve cover off and saw the destroyed rocker arm along with 2 others that had hairline cracks in them. Replaced all the rockers and got it back together and it ran ok but the glow plug light was flashing.

After tons of research online, I found someone suggesting the wrong weight oil could affect the VVT oil valve. Well I noticed that the sludge that the shop had put in my car was probably a little thicker than 5w-20, considering I was reminded of gear oil when changing the engine oil. I took the VVT valve out and cleaned it. Once I put it together the car started running like it should. a Couple of checks of the magnetic drain plug revealed the missing needle bearings and rocker arm pieces I couldn't find when rebuilding the top.

Drove a thousand miles and the glow plug light came back on, this time it was due to low fuel pressure. Turns out the HPFP had broken the shear pin on the pulley shaft and had started slipping in the pulley. No metal in the metering valve or filter. I replaced the HPFP and made it another 1000 miles, pulled into the house and up my steep driveway one evening without concern. The following morning it would not crank. I replaced the in tank pump , because it would just make a thud when turning on the ignition. I thought the motor was hanging in the pump. It did have 209K on it, but the new pump isn't any different.

No codes, other than when I unplug the metering valve or other various sensors.

Could the plunger of the HPFP have gotten stuck in the up position and therefore not making contact with the cam of the pump? Also theres still no sign of metal in the system
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
So with it all together, look at the measuring blocks related to rail pressure. During cranking, the actual value should rise very quickly. There is hardly any pressure in the rail once the engine is shut off. This is normal. The rail pressure regulator releases much of any actual pressure. But it should build pressure back up very quickly.

I do not have a CVCA car here today to look at to tell you specifically where that value is found, but VCDS should have it labeled.
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
I'm heading home now and will check that but I'm sure it will be 0. There's absolutely no fuel being pump out of the hpfp at the hard steel line going to the injector rail
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
So fuel metering valve goes from 28% with ignition on, to roundabout 36% when cranking, fuel pressure regulator IDE02228 goes from 0 to 872500 in 3.5 secs.

I took the plunger out of the HPFP and it seemed fine, internal cam moved as it should. Took the check valve out and it seemed fine. I definitely have fuel going into the HPFP but definitely nothing coming out. I currently have the hard steel line attched to the front of the pump to the fuel rail, disconnected from the fuel rail and facing out away from the car. Absolutely no fuel is being shot out of the line
 

pedroYUL

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2004 wagon BEW(brother)
If you command the transfer pump on, does fuel come out of the hpfp?

When I do command the transfer pump on, I can hear fuel rushing all thru the engine bay.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
What scan tool are you using?

I have a CKRA here, the measuring blocks for the actual and specified High Pressure are 188 and 201, respectively. I would think the CVCA is the same, but either way, they are labeled as such.

Actual reads 0 at KOEO, specified is whatever... 36000 or... doesn't really matter.

If you crank the engine, does the actual that reads 0 ramp up to match the specified?
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
Yes, when I command the transfer pump on it pumps fuel to the hpfp. I removed the plastic top cover of the pump and then the check valve cap. Commanded the fuel on and fuel poured out.

I'm using VCDS on the laptop. The measuring blocks I'm reading are:

IDE03015 Compression test cylinder 1 277.0 /min
IDE03016 Compression test cylinder 2 253.5 /min
IDE03017 Compression test cylinder 3 274.0 /min
IDE03018 Compression test cylinder 4 275.5 /min

IDE01378 Fuel high pressure: control deviation 287500 hPa
IDE02228 Fuel pressure regulator valve: specified value rail pressure 0 hPa
IDE07818 Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value 9900 hPa
IDE07820 Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value 300000 hPa
IDE07821 Fuel metering valve: activation 29.51 %
IDE07822 Fuel pressure regulator valve: activation 16.01 %
IDE11074 Fuel pres.sen. 1 bank 1 upstream from HD pump: press. dev. 0.0 kPa
IDE11111 Fuel pres.sen 1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.value averaged 20.0 kPa
IDE11112 Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered 600.0 kPa
IDE11113 Fuel pres.sen. 1 bank 1 upstream from HD pump: raw volt. 0.004 V
IDE11114 Fuel press. sensor 1 bank 1 upstr. from HD pump: adapt. value 0.0 kPa
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, CVCA must be different than the CKRA I was using as comparison. Wish I had one here to look at.

But the part you see where it says specified rail pressure as 0 seems odd.

I'd not be concerned (yet) with the off cranking compression value for that one cylinder, the engine will still start and run with that. I've had them actually start and run pretty good but set DTCs for cylinder contribution after running for a while, due to low compression (CJAAs.... from bent rods, likely from frozen intercoolers... something you don't have an issue with on this car).

If I get a CVCA or CRUA in this week, I'll try and take a peak at the data and try and determine which specifics to watch.

You may also be able to do an output test for both the pump control valve and the rail control valve. To at least see that the ECU has the ability to work those. Normally that would just cycle them ON and OFF in ~1 second intervals, so you can audibly hear them click.
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
The specified rail pressure is probably zero, since nothing is coming out of the pump.

I think I have determined that the high pressure check valve leading out of the pump must have frozen.

I have another new hpfp pump on the way and we'll see if that gets it started again
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Specified is whatever the ECU wants to see during that circumstance. So during cranking, it cannot be 0 or the engine would not start.
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Unless I messed it, you didn't say weather you could see rpm, crank or cam sensor signals while cranking. If the ecu doesn't see cranking rpm it will never start fueling.
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
Yes. It's turning over around 280 rpm and I did verify that I was getting readings from all the rpm sensors.

I really think it's a mechanical issue, such as the check valve in the pump. There's no codes, CEL or glow plug light, I feel air coming out the exhaust, there is fuel pumping into the HPFP, but nothing coming out of the HPFP. Short of the metering (which is working correctly and allows fuel to fuel), there's nothing electrical on the hpfp to stop it from pumping fuel out. Or am I missing something?
 

pedroYUL

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2004 wagon BEW(brother)
Did you see this:

 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
No, but the timing isn't the issue any longer. I'm an expert at timing belt changes on the CVCA now. I've probably removed and reinstalled it about 8 times now. I can go from it being on 4 wheels, back to 4 wheels in about 3 hrs now. lol
 

pedroYUL

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2004 wagon BEW(brother)
Frank is talking about something that even if you think the timing is correct, it is not. Read again in detail, or perhaps even think of calling Frank
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
I was getting 50 mpg the day before it wouldn't crank. I really don't think the timing is the issue.

There is absolutely no fuel being pump from the HPFP. It could be out of time but it'd still pump fuel correct?
 

SpaceFaringOrBust

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Location
Georgia, USA
TDI
EA288 CVCA
So the VW dealer is saying that the new in-tank fuel pump was only putting out 1 bar of pressure. It was flowing, just not like it should. Fingers crossed that they replace the "new" in tank pump and it fires up
 

pedroYUL

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2004 wagon BEW(brother)
So the VW dealer is saying that the new in-tank fuel pump was only putting out 1 bar of pressure. It was flowing, just not like it should. Fingers crossed that they replace the "new" in tank pump and it fires up
Hope that solves your issues. Please let us know, as I installed new lift pumps in both my Passat and GSW, but I keep hearing about new pumps underperforming. I am chasing some extended cold cranks.
 
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