No start after new injector nozzels!

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Last night I changed out my stock injector nozzles with Bosio Sprint 520 injector nozzles. I also changed the fuel filter and the lines between the filter and pump since they were cracking. I filled the filter full of fuel, primed the feeder line and nothing after a good 15 long cranks. Fuel was moving through the line after several cranks (I could tell because of the spaced out air bubbles). I unhooked the feed line from the filter a few times during that to add more fuel to the line and to reduce air--even though the Bentley and Haynes books say air in the lines isn't an issue from what I recall.

So morning I try to find more info, but not really what I'm looking for--I guess. Tried priming the line some more and loosening the lines at the injectors for a couple cranks today. Got fuel coming out at all four. A few more cranks and nothing. The lines is more fuel than air now. Now I'm getting a oil light and alarm during cranking.

I was going to take the car to German Performance Options in Nashville Monday to have them do it along with an alignment and making sure everything with the timing is right from all the work I just did and the debacle of having to let a dealership deal with a stripped timing belt in Kanas City back in May. Long story. Anyways, the Bentley lead me to believe I could certainly handle it--particularly since I successfully changed my clutch and flywheel, turbo, suspension, CV joints, etc. right before this. The feeling I could do anything on this car is now gone:/
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
Is it trying to fire at all? When I fitted my upgraded injectors the car fired straight up without any problem. I suspect there's still an air problem due to replacing the filter etc at the same time. Might need to get someone else to crank while you close the fuel lines one at a time and it should fire. Mine actually fired with the fuel lines loosened off lol, had to jump into action and close them with the engine running.
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Wow!
Nope, not firing a lick. I'm starting to think I might have messed up the nozzle installation. Now you say it, I probably should have done the injectors first, made sure it started, then do the line and filter. Ugh.
Now to give it another try...
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
So I went out, tried starting it again--nothing. Primed the feed line and check to see if fuel was in the return line, which there was. Nothing another couple of times. I loosen ALL the injector lines and turned it over until I saw fuel shooting out. Tighten them up and tried again. Nothing the first try, but it FINALLY acted like it was starting to take on the second and BAM she started! Was a little off to start with, then reved it lightly a couple of time and she smoothed out.
Bentley is a LIAR! As I suspected, it doesn't like air bubbles in the line.
 
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Redneck Truck

Gone, but not forgotten
Joined
May 3, 2009
Location
Plano, TX
TDI
2008 Touareg V10, 2001 Audi TTQ Roadster TDI 6-speed, 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI 6-speed
I called this one. When I replaced my injectors, I had to bleed the lines for several seconds before it would start, but I just kept letting it do its thing.
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Did you just swap nozzles or you send somewhere to do proper calibration and cleaning on it?
Now this is what I tried to find out before I did it. I just swapped them out. I thought it should be more complicated for this car. So what does a proper replacement call for exactly?
 

Redneck Truck

Gone, but not forgotten
Joined
May 3, 2009
Location
Plano, TX
TDI
2008 Touareg V10, 2001 Audi TTQ Roadster TDI 6-speed, 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI 6-speed
Frank's TDIs performs a cleaning, balancing/pop testing service that helps you get the most put of your injectors. It also identifies defective nozzles, of which there are plenty.
 

jetta 97

Vendor
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
TDI
2 X Jatta MK5 2006
Now this is what I tried to find out before I did it. I just swapped them out. I thought it should be more complicated for this car. So what does a proper replacement call for exactly?
You have to do cleaning and calibration of injectors , not just swap them. You can damage nozzles in very short period being out of the ballance.
Call Pete Drivbiwire and he can do it for you.
He is the ONLY one who I can trust and does excellent job.
Trust me on this one , I used Pete so many times and my customers can not believe how car running after that, they are more then happy.
Here is the info:
http://dbwllc.net/default.aspx
 
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Redneck Truck

Gone, but not forgotten
Joined
May 3, 2009
Location
Plano, TX
TDI
2008 Touareg V10, 2001 Audi TTQ Roadster TDI 6-speed, 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI 6-speed
Just out of curiosity, what does Drivbiwire do that Frank does not?
 

jetta 97

Vendor
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
TDI
2 X Jatta MK5 2006
Just out of curiosity, what does Drivbiwire do that Frank does not?
Everything, and he has right equipment for those injectors. Frank using old fashion way to do those injectors which is very wrong way to balance those injectors.
I have seen injectors form Frank and they don't compare in anyway with Drivbiwire once.
If you interested to see what quality job he does contact me and we can meet.I have MK3 with about 30k on injectors form Pete and you should hear sound of that engine.

I don't make a very easy comments about someone if I am not 100% sure about what he does , but when I do trust me that is 100% quality job. here is what I said after he did injectors:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2395524&postcount=38
 
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whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Um, please, lets go down this road of who does what best. It has been hashed over before.
 

JC_1992

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, 2001 Jetta GLS
Everything, and he has right equipment for those injectors. Frank using old fashion way to do those injectors which is very wrong way to balance those injectors.
I have seen injectors form Frank and they don't compare in anyway with Drivbiwire once.
If you interested to see what quality job he does contact me and we can meet.I have MK3 with about 30k on injectors form Pete and you should hear sound of that engine.

I don't make a very easy comments about someone if I am not 100% sure about what he does , but when I do trust me that is 100% quality job. here is what I said after he did injectors:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2395524&postcount=38
Jetta ,97 you really are a piece of work aren't you? Lets get a few things straightened out.

You claim to have seen an inferior job of nozzle balancing/calibration from Frank. I can tell you I personally saw the same thing from a set of nozzles that were balanced/calibrated and installed less than 2000 miles ago by DBW.

My point- there are plenty of defective/inferior quality nozzles out there. People have terrific and terrible stories of both individuals and that is NEVER going to change. Share your experience and recommend all you want, but dont bash the other. Let people do their own research and find the vendor they feel comfortable with instead of being the douche-bag that just likes to start controversy.

WAKeele, glad you figured out the issue. As stated above if you want your nozzles balanced/calibrated do your research. There are plenty of threads discussing this topic. Good Luck
 
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WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Well, I can at least say it's given me something else to look into.

My Bosio Sprint 520 injector nozzles seem to be doing pretty well thus far. Running smooth. A noticeable increase in power too--not a great deal, but enough for a smirk out on my test drive. Besides what's been mentioned, is there anything else I should keep an eye out for? I'll be back in Montana soon and find myself in Boise several times a year visiting friends, so I might check out DBW.

I can speak with positive regard for Unitronic performance software though. Just got the Stage 1+ upgrade--WOW, what a difference! Not that's a noticeable increase in power. If they didn't have the 30-day money back guarantee, I might have not went it with. I didn't really see myself ever going the "chip" route for the money involved, but I'm glad I did. Can't wait to feel it in the Rockies!
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
So I noticed some smoke that lingered at start-up for a few minutes and when I goosed it--it's never done it quite like this before (and I hope it wouldn't after all the stuff I cleaned out recently). More gray when I goosed it and a little more blue at idle (that very well could be backwards). Probably in the upper 50s F that day too. Went away though.
I've also noticed some black smoke when I was "testing" out the acceleration with the new software upgrade. I know that's to be expected. Maybe I do need to have the injectors calibrated or could it be some off timing from when a dealership did my timing belt about 10,000 miles ago when it went in Kanas City? Now I have noticed since then that if I tap the throttle some, it doesn't always take to well to that (would this be the shutter the anti-shutter valve and solenoid deals with?). I thought since I was recently replacing everything under the sun, to might as well throw a new anti-shutter valve solenoid to see if this would help. I will go as far to say it made it worse when I put it on yesterday.
Any idears?
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
Have you tried scanning for fault codes? It's a lot better than just throwing parts at it. If you think there's something wrong with the asv just disconnect it for the time being to test it, you might get a cel but at least you'll know.
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I haven't since I changed it. There's at least no MIL. Good idea. It's pretty pathetic I didn't think to try that. I'll try that tomorrow.
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
I'd always go for having the nozzles fitted and balanced, mine were done by drivbi but I would still expect the car to start.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
54K, ruined nozzles. Installed by me. Ruined due to wrong pop pressures.

Arguably, sprints aren't known to be the best nozzles and there is a theory that they were just crappy nozzles to start out with.
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I'm not debating whether the HAVE TO. I figured they should, but someone had me to believe otherwise before I did it. I hope they make it at least 3,000 miles.
As for the anti-shutter, I pulled the vac line on the valve and it didn't get worse--I actually think it got better. I'm getting the impression it's the timing and/or the injectors needing calibration.
Overall, it's running well down the road. Seems at its worst for the first few minutes--which isn't even that bad. There is a delay in hard acceleration that's been there since the timing belt stripped this summer. If I punch it, there's a second delay. Since I've replaced ALL the vacuum lines and most of the associated hardware, it would seem it's timing and not a boost leak. BUT, as you can tell, I'm not that experienced with these systems.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
"There is a delay in hard acceleration that's been there since the timing belt stripped this summer."

Please tell me you had the head repaired afterwards.
 

WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
OH YEAH! A little more than $3,000 dollars worth of work. I sure didn't want to have a dealership touch it, but it was a very bad time to deal with it any other way in an unfamiliar town on a Friday night. The last seven months have been trying. I'm having a TDI shop in Nashville check the for any timing/fuel system issues before I drive back to Montana in the next couple of weeks.
 

jetta 97

Vendor
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
TDI
2 X Jatta MK5 2006
That was me ,sorry I was going to re post it, I excellently erase it.
I was going to show you how the nozzles looks like after 8000 miles when they not get calibrate.
In this case all injectors and nozzles was damage and it cost 2 X more then what would cost in first place .
So it is your call what you want to do.
Here again:
http://flickr.com/gp/39519240@N06/P09ob1
 
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WAKeele

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Missoula, Montana
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Alright, this is what I'm talking about! Now I feel like there's a higher priority to getting things squared away properly. Sorry, I'm a skeptic. I need proof for things.
So was this one leaking? How much did it cost to right this?
 

jetta 97

Vendor
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
TDI
2 X Jatta MK5 2006
Alright, this is what I'm talking about! Now I feel like there's a higher priority to getting things squared away properly. Sorry, I'm a skeptic. I need proof for things.
So was this one leaking? How much did it cost to right this?
Just contact the guy I post it before and you will get all answers.
 
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