No start after new cylinder head

[dmanqso]

Installed a new cylinder head on my 2002 jetta with A/T and now it will not fire unless you spray starting fluid in the intake and then it will only run for a second or two. We have changed the fuel filter and made sure nothing was goofy there. The injectors have been bleed 3 times so i dont believe air is an issue. I can hear the solenoid turning on at the back of the pump but not 100% sure it is working correctly. Changed the 109 relay since i had one to see if that would work and no luck there. Timing marks are spot on after checking 3 times. Will take ideas to make this critter run again.
Thank you,
Mike

 

[Windex]

Back to basics
How did you time the engine - describe the marks and tools you used for alignment
when you bled the fuel lines, you should have got a lot of fuel pouring out of them - did you? or just a trickle?
Why did you bleed the lines three times? once you get fuel at the cracked fitting, you should be good.
which headgasket did you use - how many holes and how did you decide that was the right one?

 

[dmanqso]

used tdi timing tools as we have many timers in the past. Flex plate is maked for TDC/0, pin in injection pump and locking plate in back of cam. head gasket was the same thickness 2 hole/notch. car was running when it was pulled in the shop. possible fuel solenoid failure?

 

[oilhammer]

While cranking, if you have one of the delivery pipes cracked loose at an injector, there should be a pretty substantial "spit" of fuel. Enough you can usually see it from the driver's seat. Not a dribble. Is that happening?

 

[Metal Man]

My dad always told me that if it ran before and it doesn't now it's something you did. It's doubtfull anything failed in the time you had it apart.
Are you sure pistons 1 and 4 were up when you set it on TDC? I once had a car come in here that would only run on starting fluid and that what was wrong. It was "in time" except it wasn't.
If the check engine light comes on with the key on the 109 if fine.
If you have fuel when you crank it the solenoid is fine and so is the 109.

 

[dmanqso]

both cylinders were at TDC and the timing mark was in correct location. injector lines were spitting fuel but we still think its a fuel issue because were not getting any fuel returning to filter

 

[Windex]

If you are getting fuel at the cracked injector fitting, then the fuel shutoff solenoid is working. Have you pulled fuel through the pump with a mightyvac off the return fitting?

If you crank the engine with all of the fuel lines cracked, then you should start to get the front of the engine douses in fuel... is that happening?

Alternatively (with the injectors not cracked), have someone crank the engine and smell the tailpipe - does it smell of fuel? If so, then the timing is not correct.

Watch this video - skip to 9min 35 sec. Do you get that amount of fuel with the engine cranking and the injectors cracked?

 

[dmanqso]

If you are getting fuel at the cracked injector fitting, then the fuel shutoff solenoid is working. Have you pulled fuel through the pump with a mightyvac off the return fitting?

If you crank the engine with all of the fuel lines cracked, then you should start to get the front of the engine douses in fuel... is that happening?

Alternatively (with the injectors not cracked), have someone crank the engine and smell the tailpipe - does it smell of fuel? If so, then the timing is not correct.

Watch this video - skip to 9min 35 sec. Do you get that amount of fuel with the engine cranking and the injectors cracked?

If you are getting fuel at the cracked injector fitting, then the fuel shutoff solenoid is working. Have you pulled fuel through the pump with a mightyvac off the return fitting?

If you crank the engine with all of the fuel lines cracked, then you should start to get the front of the engine douses in fuel... is that happening?

Alternatively (with the injectors not cracked), have someone crank the engine and smell the tailpipe - does it smell of fuel? If so, then the timing is not correct.

Watch this video - skip to 9min 35 sec. Do you get that amount of fuel with the engine cranking and the injectors cracked?

fuel at the lines is like the video. will check the exhaust. thank you

 

[dmanqso]

Back to basics
How did you time the engine - describe the marks and tools you used for alignment
when you bled the fuel lines, you should have got a lot of fuel pouring out of them - did you? or just a trickle?
Why did you bleed the lines three times? once you get fuel at the cracked fitting, you should be good.
which headgasket did you use - how many holes and how did you decide that was the right one?

All Marks were lined up. Locking plate was in the camshaft. The top dead center mark was lined up at the bottom of the rectangle hole on the transmission bell housing, and the locking pin was in the pump. The injectors all seem to be spaying properly, and we put a different pump on for an automatic with 112,000 miles on it. Am at a loss. My son and I have done a lot of different things on these including changing head on two others as well as changing pumps and timing belts.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Is the camshaft in the right position or 180 degrees out? (not positive the plate can be installed if it is 180 degrees out, but if it is, then you'll still generate compression but it will be 180 out from the injection pump, hence why spray fluid works.) Cylinder 1 camshaft lobes both need to be upward with all the other locks in place.

 

[Shenandoah]

Dmansqso,

What 03tdicommuter said: You could have the cam 180 degrees out when you installed the new pump. Put the engine back at TDC with the pump locked and check the lobes on the cam.

Eric

 

[Windex]

Either that or the pump pin went in the "sucker hole" and is not lined up properly.

https://www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

Go to page 43, 83, and 86 in the above PDF - if each of those is lined up as shown, and you have good compression and fuel at the injectors, the engine Will start.

 

[dmanqso]

I want thank everyone for different pointers. Between my son and I, we have 4 ALH TDIs. 2 2002 models and 2 2003s. This was the first one that the cam locking plate would go in 180 degrees off. I remembered on the rabbit diesels that the number 1 cylinder cam lobes should be pointed upward. I reset everything and it fired right up. Am off and running.

 

[03TDICommuter]

I want thank everyone for different pointers. Between my son and I, we have 4 ALH TDIs. 2 2002 models and 2 2003s. This was the first one that the cam locking plate would go in 180 degrees off. I remembered on the rabbit diesels that the number 1 cylinder cam lobes should be pointed upward. I reset everything and it fired right up. Am off and running.

Yay!

 

[Windex]

I want thank everyone for different pointers. Between my son and I, we have 4 ALH TDIs. 2 2002 models and 2 2003s. This was the first one that the cam locking plate would go in 180 degrees off. I remembered on the rabbit diesels that the number 1 cylinder cam lobes should be pointed upward. I reset everything and it fired right up. Am off and running.

Here's the thing about ALH camshafts and that slot at the rear - it drives the vacuum pump - It absolutely is cut dead center on the rear of the cam.

Every single ALH cam will 100% allow the cam lock tool to be inserted 180deg out - the key is noting that #1 cam lobes are pointing upward.

As an old German mechanic used to tell me "the cam lobes should be like bunny ears - same as this Nissan, countless VWs and many other inline 4 cylinders:

 

[03TDICommuter]

Here's the thing about ALH camshafts and that slot at the rear - it drives the vacuum pump - It absolutely is cut dead center on the rear of the cam.

It's not cut dead center - it's offset a little. The drive on the vacuum pump has slots in it too so it can follow a non-centered drive

Edit: Here's a post from Franko6 to know if the lobes are pointed up if you have the locking plate that does not require taking the valve cover off.

long reach cam lock tool

Hello there How will I know if the cam is not 180 out if I use the long reach lock? If I have the flywheel at tdc and the pin in the IP hole will this tell me that im ok? I have a couple messed up screws on the VC hense I would use the longer version lock. My tensioner is making a faint bearing...

forums.tdiclub.com

With the vacuum pump removed, you find a slot in the cam that drives the vacuum pump. In the middle of the slot you will see a live center hole. If you look very closely in the slot, you will see the center hole is not exactly centered. The hole touches one side of the slot. The center hole has a small gap between the hole and the opposite side of the slot. So, the drive slot is off-center to the center hole. If you have the cam aligned so the center hole is touching the bottom of the slot, the #1 lobes will be up, or at TDC.

 

[jokila]

My cam tool from Metalnerd won't fit well and in the slot if the cam is 180 out.

 

[oilhammer]

I'm always looking at the #1 cam lobes as I set it all up, so it is never been an issue. But, I have to say I am interested in getting the tool (after all these years!) that lets you keep the valve cover in place when setting the cam, so I won't be able to do that.

 

[jokila]

I'm always looking at the #1 cam lobes as I set it all up, so it is never been an issue. But, I have to say I am interested in getting the tool (after all these years!) that lets you keep the valve cover in place when setting the cam, so I won't be able to do that.

Same, so there is no question which orientation the cam is.

I finally got that tool about a year ago. It's nice for when you need to retime the engine, say replacing the injection pump, but since I am going to be replacing the cam seal anyway during the timing belt service, it's not really that big of a deal.

 

[Franko6]

Ha! Sometimes, I'm not sure people are paying attention. Seriously, I made my own tool to do that 'Valve cover in place' cam alignment tool. I think I've had that tool for about 12 years now. Not so hard, but I know you can still screw it up. I haven't yet, but when you are trying to make time on a timing belt job, that little 'cheat' is a good one. Especially, when the guy before you put the right rear screw in the valve cover at 25 ft lbs with red Loctite and stripped the head...lol...

So, who sells that tool? Maybe I should sell my own design.

BTW Jokila; there is another tool to remove the seal without taking the valve cover off. It's got pipe threads that cut into the seal, then a center threaded rod that pushes against the end of the cam to pull it out. Reinstalling the seal is like installing the transmission output shaft seals. I have a large socket cut to just the size of the seal and it hammers in nicely. Just protect the seal from the woodruff key slot. Paramedick's idea; 'piece of electrical tape' keeps the seal from being cut when installed.