No more Diesel for US from VW

[MonsterTDI09]

Sure there is. Quite a few new gassers are only a few mpg behind with about the same power. And regular unleaded is cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I like TDI's, but the maintenance cost and high risk of something expensive breaking might not be worth it.

Maintenance is a wash. There is always a risk of something breaking. It is still cheaper to repair the car than buying a new one.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Sure there is. Quite a few new gassers are only a few mpg behind with about the same power. And regular unleaded is cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I like TDI's, but the maintenance cost and high risk of something expensive breaking might not be worth it.

TSI's have issues too, like HPFP issues, intake valve ports coking shut, injectors are costly too. Some might have timing belts so that's a wash with a TDI.

 

[RabbitGTI]

TSI's have issues too, like HPFP issues, intake valve ports coking shut, injectors are costly too. Some might have timing belts so that's a wash with a TDI.

Valve carbon on early ones was a big problem. I think the current ones have timing chains which is usually a disaster for a high mileage driver.

 

[HBarlow]

And, as predicted, OPEC just yesterday announced a new agreement to cut back oil production which, if it is adhered to by member nations, will cause road fuel prices in the USA to rise.

How attractive will the econoboxes be if gas prices jump dramatically prior to the summer travel season next year?

Econoboxes have their place but I'm sticking with TDIs, thank you.

 

[RoundHouse]

They are, in fact. The EPA has levied hefty fines on a number of makers of tuning boxes that make those truck roll coal.

I'd love to be on the jury of that trial
An easy not guilty vote
Those tuning boxes can be used in any number of legal ways

Why not go after car manufacturers for building a car that will exceed the speed limit when you get a speeding ticket ?


Another thing that tickles me is how much people worry about the MPG of a vehicle

The depreciation costs the owner a lot more $$ than the fuel ever will

I own a full size gas guzzling SUV .
A 2004 4wd expedition .
Gets 11.5 mpg in town and 16.5 on the interstate

We bought it in excellent condition few years ago at an auction with 120k on it for $6500
It has every avail option

The original owner paid $46K for it
So the original owner lost $39K in depreciation alone , plus sales tax on $46K
Plus interest since no one pays cash for a car anymore

We have since put another 100k on the vehicle , it has 230k on the clock now
At 11.5 mpg we've used 8700 gallons assuming an average price of 2.80 a gallon means we've spent $24K on fuel to drive 100,000 miles

Less than half of what the previous owner lost just in depreciation

Why people buy brand new cars is still a mystery to me
They are way way more complicated than they need to be , made of mostly plastic and have computers running everything including the window motors

When the expy croaks the replacement vehicle is going to be the nicest 88-91 K-5 Blazer I can find

Just gonna keep the Tdi 2001 5 speed Beetle as long as it still runs

Most of the left coast and northeast liberal geniuses have no concept of the amount of reduction in pollution from automobiles that has been accomplished in recent history

A 2016 gas powered vehicle emits less than 1% of the pollution that the exact same vehicle did in 1974

A 74 Chevy pickup got 8 mpg and polluted so bad you can't stand next to it when it's running, even outdoors and not in a garage

My brothers 2016 V-8 Chevy pickup gets 21 mpg and emits almost zero pollution






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HBarlow]

I'd love to be on the jury of that trial
An easy not guilty vote

Those tuning boxes can be used in any number of legal ways

Why not go after car manufacturers for building a car that will exceed the speed limit when you get a speeding ticket ?

Another thing that tickles me is how much people worry about the MPG of a vehicle

The depreciation costs the owner a lot more $$ than the fuel ever will

I own a full size gas guzzling SUV .
A 2004 4wd expedition .
Gets 11.5 mpg in town and 16.5 on the interstate

We bought it in excellent condition few years ago at an auction with 120k on it for $6500
It has every avail option

The original owner paid $46K for it
So the original owner lost $39K in depreciation alone , plus sales tax on $46K
Plus interest since no one pays cash for a car anymore

We have since put another 100k on the vehicle , it has 230k on the clock now

At 11.5 mpg we've used 8700 gallons assuming an average price of 2.80 a gallon means we've spent $24K on fuel to drive 100,000 miles

Less than half of what the previous owner lost just in depreciation

Why people buy brand new cars is still a mystery to me

They are way way more complicated than they need to be , made of mostly plastic and have computers running everything including the window motors

When the expy croaks the replacement vehicle is going to be the nicest 88-91 K-5 Blazer I can find

Just gonna keep the Tdi 2001 5 speed Beetle as long as it still runs

Most of the left coast and northeast liberal geniuses have no concept of the amount of reduction in pollution from automobiles that has been accomplished in recent history

A 2016 gas powered vehicle emits less than 1% of the pollution that the exact same vehicle did in 1974

A 74 Chevy pickup got 8 mpg and polluted so bad you can't stand next to it when it's running, even outdoors and not in a garage

My brothers 2016 V-8 Chevy pickup gets 21 mpg and emits almost zero pollution. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With that post you became one of my favorite posters on this website. Well done.

 

[turbobrick240]

I don't know. 11.5 mpg is pretty abysmal in my book. Probably why my 16 mpg 7.3 sits parked 90% of the time.

 

[HBarlow]

I don't drive or want to drive a car that delivers such poor fuel mileage either but roundhouse's point was that the math doesn't support paying big prices and high taxes for fancy new cars in order to drive cars that provide great fuel economy.

Depreciation or loss of value is greater than the modest amount saved by driving new fuel sipping cars.

I'm not going to admit to owning a 10,000 lb. Dodge-Cummins 3500 quad cab and chassis truck that pulls a heavy travel trailer occasionally at 10 - 11 mpg in this post.

 

[RabbitGTI]

I'd love to be on the jury of that trial
An easy not guilty vote
Those tuning boxes can be used in any number of legal ways

Why not go after car manufacturers for building a car that will exceed the speed limit when you get a speeding ticket ?


Another thing that tickles me is how much people worry about the MPG of a vehicle

The depreciation costs the owner a lot more $$ than the fuel ever will

I own a full size gas guzzling SUV .
A 2004 4wd expedition .
Gets 11.5 mpg in town and 16.5 on the interstate

We bought it in excellent condition few years ago at an auction with 120k on it for $6500
It has every avail option

The original owner paid $46K for it
So the original owner lost $39K in depreciation alone , plus sales tax on $46K
Plus interest since no one pays cash for a car anymore

We have since put another 100k on the vehicle , it has 230k on the clock now
At 11.5 mpg we've used 8700 gallons assuming an average price of 2.80 a gallon means we've spent $24K on fuel to drive 100,000 miles

Less than half of what the previous owner lost just in depreciation

Why people buy brand new cars is still a mystery to me
They are way way more complicated than they need to be , made of mostly plastic and have computers running everything including the window motors

When the expy croaks the replacement vehicle is going to be the nicest 88-91 K-5 Blazer I can find

Just gonna keep the Tdi 2001 5 speed Beetle as long as it still runs

Most of the left coast and northeast liberal geniuses have no concept of the amount of reduction in pollution from automobiles that has been accomplished in recent history

A 2016 gas powered vehicle emits less than 1% of the pollution that the exact same vehicle did in 1974

A 74 Chevy pickup got 8 mpg and polluted so bad you can't stand next to it when it's running, even outdoors and not in a garage

My brothers 2016 V-8 Chevy pickup gets 21 mpg and emits almost zero pollution






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup. I remember yellow air and you could taste the lead and unburnt fuel. Time to go after space heating and other avenues to reduce pollution. We are reaching a point of diminishing returns with cars.

 

[panthers89fan90]

.

Maintenance is a wash. There is always a risk of something breaking. It is still cheaper to repair the car than buying a new one.

We live in a technology-driven society. All these gadgets, gizmos, and cool features are what people want(including me). I mean a big part of my life is technology. I work with technology all day long. I crave it. Almost an addiction. While my old 2003 ALH got great fuel mileage and I heavily modded it for power, it didn't satisfy my appetite. I mean new cars these days have hill-assist, park assist, an infotainment system that monitors your music, phone calls, texts, climate controls, back up camera, blind spots, etc.

While I realize that a new car isn't an investment, it's a money pit and monthly payment, it's just nice to have something fresh, new, with all the bells and whistles, and twice the power of my 200hp ALH. Although I did make one smart move. I got a car a year old so the original owner took the first depreciation hit.

And to add to the maintenance discussion. ALL direct injection engines suffer from the same issue. They all will eventually suffer from carbon build up. It's the nature of the beast. But most of this issue can be fixed by getting an oil catch can. If you wait too long, I guess you'll have to go the walnut shell cleaning route.

 

[n1das]

And, as predicted, OPEC just yesterday announced a new agreement to cut back oil production which, if it is adhered to by member nations, will cause road fuel prices in the USA to rise.

How attractive will the econoboxes be if gas prices jump dramatically prior to the summer travel season next year?

Econoboxes have their place but I'm sticking with TDIs, thank you.

Well said.

A Sulphur reduction for gasoline is coming soon which will result in a small but permanent price increase on top of everything else affecting prices. Exactly how much of a price increase we will see is unknown. IIRC the requirement starts on 1/1/17. The coming price increase may help level the playing field with diesel prices.

The sulphur content will be reduced from around 30 ppm to no more than 10 ppm given that gassers will be getting GPFs in the near future. ULSRUG will have no more than around 5 ppm Sulphur to account for contamination along the way to stay under the 10 ppm limit. I'm curious to see how much of a hit in MPGs the gassers will take with GPFs and what kind of problems they will have. I'm also curious how regeneration will be handled if/when needed. Exhaust temps may be hot enough to rely only on passive regeneration...provided the car is always driven enough to get the engine and exhaust fully up to operating temperature. Short trips and babying these cars may be real problematic.

With my logging around 1k miles/week, gassers are not an option at all. Whatever I drive HAS to be diesel. Any gasser replacement is actually not a replacement and represents a significant downgrade. VW not returning with diesels simply means I'm not returning to VW as a customer.

Good luck.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

So Chevrolet is reintroducing diesels with stick shifts in Equinox(suv), Cruze sedan, and Cruze hatchback models. Mazda says that they are introducing diesels in a suv and mid sized sedan form though no mention is made of manual transmissions. I've been enjoying my JSW with manual TDI but if they don't show me an acceptable emissions fix by mid spring my love for VW isn't a suicide pact.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I don't think you'll see any Chevrolet diesels in the US with manual transmissions. Canada, maybe. But not here. Not Mazda either. Sadly, unless VW brings back 4 cylinder diesels the days of diesel and manual transmission may be over. Only one available right now is the Cummins in the Ram 2500.

 

[GWbiker]

So Chevrolet is reintroducing diesels with stick shifts in Equinox(suv), Cruze sedan, and Cruze hatchback models. Mazda says that they are introducing diesels in a suv and mid sized sedan form though no mention is made of manual transmissions. I've been enjoying my JSW with manual TDI but if they don't show me an acceptable emissions fix by mid spring my love for VW isn't a suicide pact.

I went into the local Chev dealership for a GM part yesterday. On the way out I spoke to a salesman about the Cruze Diesel for '17. I told him VW is abandoning the Diesel car market in America and Chev should take up the slack. But according to him, none coming 'cause "No body wants a small car Diesel".

I said that's the same bull I've heard from car salesmen for the past 40 years.

Conversation ended at that point.

 

[RabbitGTI]

^^^ VW sold over 500,000 diesels between 09 and 15, so somebody wanted them

 

[donDavide]

Opec has issues, believe it when I see it ( I did hear about, excuse me, candadian forum, aboot it on the radio). But we just found a large oil reserve in Texas and Natual gas we have more than anyone else. so I doubt they will get much traction.

 

[turbobrick240]

Most car salesmen want to make a sale today, not next month or next year. They will typically feed you whatever they think will get them an immediate sale. I recently had a salesman from a VW dealership tell me that the two door gti is no longer available. I'm fairly certain he just wanted to sell me one of the 4 doors they had on the lot.

 

[jackbombay]

The depreciation costs the owner a lot more $$ than the fuel ever will

Your wording is such that its hard to determine what exactly you mean, but I have kept track of every fill up since my 2003 Jetta was new, I have 226k miles on the clock and to date I have saved $18,000 in fuel costs compared to driving my old car at 25 MPG. I paid $22k for the Jetta, it will soon have paid for itself in fuel savings.

 

[B100]

Some have questioned the relevance of this website, in the wake of VW's news to exit the United States Diesel market. Rather, I think it's abundantly clear that this site will matter more than ever, as a primary resource for owners of VW TDI vehicles. Thank you Fred, and all volunteer admins and moderators, for keeping this site going.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

So Chevrolet is reintroducing diesels with stick shifts in Equinox(suv), Cruze sedan, and Cruze hatchback models. Mazda says that they are introducing diesels in a suv and mid sized sedan form though no mention is made of manual transmissions. I've been enjoying my JSW with manual TDI but if they don't show me an acceptable emissions fix by mid spring my love for VW isn't a suicide pact.

Who said you have to get the fix done. Something to think about.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Most car salesmen want to make a sale today, not next month or next year. They will typically feed you whatever they think will get them an immediate sale. I recently had a salesman from a VW dealership tell me that the two door gti is no longer available. I'm fairly certain he just wanted to sell me one of the 4 doors they had on the lot.

I've also heard that for 2017 we'll only have GTIs with 4 doors.

 

[turbobrick240]

I've also heard that for 2017 we'll only have GTIs with 4 doors.

The two door '17 gti is only available in the base "s" configuration. Which means no performance package on the 2 door. Finding a two door, manual gti around here isn't easy though.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Why people buy brand new cars is still a mystery to me
They are way way more complicated than they need to be , made of mostly plastic and have computers running everything including the window motors
When the expy croaks the replacement vehicle is going to be the nicest 88-91 K-5 Blazer I can find

I agree, they are overprice piles of junk that when they have issues out of warranty, you better have a huge savings account or do what most do, just trade it in.
Way too many gadgets, stupid.

I don't know. 11.5 mpg is pretty abysmal in my book. Probably why my 16 mpg 7.3 sits parked 90% of the time.

Agree'd, especially for a commuter or daily driver, not good for the air either,
I was driving a diesel van to commute in, spent $500+ a month, now down to less than a $100 a month.

We live in a technology-driven society. All these gadgets, gizmos, and cool features are what people want(including me). I mean a big part of my life is technology. I work with technology all day long. I crave it. Almost an addiction. While my old 2003 ALH got great fuel mileage and I heavily modded it for power, it didn't satisfy my appetite. I mean new cars these days have hill-assist, park assist, an infotainment system that monitors your music, phone calls, texts, climate controls, back up camera, blind spots, etc.
.

Not needed by any means, and it makes drivers dumber for it. At least years ago, drivers had to drive, now they just play on their phones or whatever. Car's don't need all these options.
Look at pickup trucks, back in the 80/90's, you could get a fully loaded truck, lol, meaning power windows, a/c and cruise for around $25,000 and it was fine to drive, now, the same truck is $80-$100,000, W T F?

 

[Dieseltoys]

After owning and repairing TDI's for years, I can honestly say that the 09+ TDI's are absolute, total junk vehicles and deserve to be crushed. Never before have I seen a manufactured vehicle with so many major defects and recurrent problems. Balance shaft modules, HPFP failures, turbo failures, camshaft failures, injector issues, intake manifold flap issues, DPF failures, EGR failures, the list goes on and on. No amount of software fixes are going to fix the litany of issues with those vehicles. Anyone who thinks they're "saving money" by owning a TDI is turning a blind eye to reality. Anything one saves in fuel they'll spend many times that maintaining the vehicle.

 

[tikal]

Opec has issues, believe it when I see it ( I did hear about, excuse me, candadian forum, aboot it on the radio). But we just found a large oil reserve in Texas and Natual gas we have more than anyone else. so I doubt they will get much traction.

I agree. The situation in the Middle East is as unpredictable as ever and becoming more so. Now having said that, in my humble opinion, on the long run, the price of fossil fuels will go up and not because of OPEC being more unified but because of other factors out of the control of world leaders and their followers.

 

[MHC48]

Maybe not just US. Apparently mayors of Paris, Madrid Mexico City, Athens have agreed to ban diesel vehicles by 2025. http://www.businessinsider.com/cities-ban-diesel-vehicles-by-2025-2016-12

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

This is going to be interesting. I think "the City" in central London already bans or has a high surcharge for diesels in that part of the city. Not sure how that's working out. In their case they're worried about congestion as well as pollution. And it's only a tiny fraction of the city of London.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Heard on the radio today that several large cities in europe will be banning all diesel vehicles in the next ten years because of emissions; specifically nitrous oxides and carbon particulates.

 

[da.hs]

I recall watching London taxis leaving black smoke trails behind them and the smoke sitting still for many minutes. Heavily built-up area, not much wind. This was just before the "clean diesel TDI" era (I left in 2004), I don't doubt modern ones are better. Those old taxis are probably still going: easy to understand the desire to reduce pollution in urban areas.

 

[atc98002]

Heard on the radio today that several large cities in europe will be banning all diesel vehicles in the next ten years because of emissions; specifically nitrous oxides and carbon particulates.

Well, particulates is a red herring excuse. With DPFs, there are no particulates. The Q5 I just bought has a much more foul smelling exhaust than my Passat, as does our 2005 Dodge 1500. NOx is debatable about its actual effects on the environments. In some areas it has been shown to actually improve the air by reducing other types of air contaminants. Wxman has more accurate information about that.