No more Diesel for US from VW

[atc98002]

So has VW announced a strategy for dealing with the 12,000 unsold units sitting on dealer lots? A sophisticated fix needed to get through CARB regulations appears unlikely. Will VW ship them to China or Bolivia or perhaps roll them off a cliff?

The agreement with the US Government says they can't be exported, so if they end up with no fix I would expect them to be crushed.

 

[RabbitGTI]

They will be back. It's only a matter of time. CARBs dream of a "zero emission" all-electric fleet is impossible and it's sad that time is being wasted pandering to their stupidity. We need a blend of power trains. Big diesels for hauling, little diesel hybrids for high mileage, DI gas hybrids and all-electrics for city cars and some other uses. No one power train will satisfy everyone.

 

[turbobrick240]

So has VW announced a strategy for dealing with the 12,000 unsold units sitting on dealer lots? A sophisticated fix needed to get through CARB regulations appears unlikely. Will VW ship them to China or Bolivia or perhaps roll them off a cliff?

I'd put my money on a fix being approved in the very near future.

 

[Kabin]

15 years ago everyone said GM killed diesels in the US. Now VW is punting and GM has a number of diesel vehicles. And I doubt the new presidential elect will encourage VW to import more cars.

 

[turbobrick240]

He probably won't be pushing for tighter environmental regs either.

 

[pdq import repair]

A dozen violator TDI's pollute less than one brain dead idiot in a modified full size pickup, rollin' coal. Why don't they go after those numbskulls?

They should relax car regs, or tighten trucks to be fair.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

They are, in fact. The EPA has levied hefty fines on a number of makers of tuning boxes that make those truck roll coal.

 

[pdq import repair]

Need to fine the owners that modified them and intentionally drive them that way. If done properly and driven properly they won't roll coal.

I modified a couple of TDIs that I owned and it made them better in all ways and I never saw smoke.

 

[lord diesel]

It's going to be interesting to see the values of pre-common rail cars in coming days.
I wonder if it's the same thing in Canada, 'no more VW diesels'.

Good question. Here's another, what's my 2000' ALH Jetta now worth with 26k original pampered miles?
People laughed at me (barely) driving a 17 year old vehicle that still looks like new.

 

[Random_Vibration]

Compared to 15 billion it's pocket change.

The magnitude of Volkswagen's fine is largely due their continued deception after being caught. They were approached by CARB and the EPA a year before the scandal broke. If they would've dealt straight with them then, it would've impacted the fine. Even after the scandal broke, they kept the game going longer before giving up. Poor crisis management cost them the 15 billion. EPA fines are usually relative wrist slaps for large corporations. But the more you evade, the more it's going to cost you.

If you know you're guilty, it's easier to cop a plea than to keep claiming innocent. You probably are going to loose in the end. The evidence is easy to find with 500,000 cars on the road. Why continue to be obstenant.

My problem isn't so much that they cheated. It was they handled it poorly after the fact. Ford and Hyundai stepped up early and took the hit. Their fines reflect that.

I do feel the fine is disproportionate to GM's ignition switch issue where real deaths were directly associated with the scandal.

The government didn't "do anything" to VW. They (VW) dug their heals in even when the jig was up. They almost were asking for the big fine. There was nothing to gain in the delaying action. They ended up in the same place, but it cost them more and they gained nothing. Who plays these games with shareholder money, the company, and jobs at risk. Man up, take the hit and move forward. Holding out just amplifies the problem (and the fine). It's poor crisis management.

 

[donDavide]

It is the consumer paying the price, we wont have the choice of VW diesels.

 

[RabbitGTI]

The cars met emissions on the EPA dyno. Why can't they just delete the offending code? I know it costs some mileage and power, but is it that big a deal?

 

[cevans]

Need to fine the owners that modified them and intentionally drive them that way. If done properly and driven properly they won't roll coal.

I modified a couple of TDIs that I owned and it made them better in all ways and I never saw smoke.

Wow really? Amazing, can you tell us more?

My problem isn't so much that they cheated. It was they handled it poorly after the fact. Ford and Hyundai stepped up early and took the hit. Their fines reflect that.

Monday morning quarterbacking, you have no way of determining that a different path would lead to a markedly different outcome. I don't think that VW 'owning up to it immediately' alone would make a 15 BILLION dollar fine a 900 million dollar fine aka GM's ignition switch issue...which they also DENIED repeatedly over many years.

The dollars in this case just don't make sense.

 

[Random_Vibration]

Wow really? Amazing, can you tell us more?
Monday morning quarterbacking, you have no way of determining that a different path would lead to a markedly different outcome. I don't think that VW 'owning up to it immediately' alone would make a 15 BILLION dollar fine a 900 million dollar fine aka GM's ignition switch issue...which they also DENIED repeatedly over many years.
The dollars in this case just don't make sense.

Nor do you have any way of determining that cooperation would've helped or not.

I have worked for two corporations who have violated state and federal environment laws and were caught. Our cooperation did affect the outcome. In the first case, the state waived the fines due to our cooperation and a promise that the hazardous waste would be handled within a specified time. The second was quite serious, a violation of the Federal Clean Water act and the required payment of a small fine. Most of the money we spent was on remediation, prevention, and monitoring, not the fine. We proactively worked with the state and federal governments and the fine was accessed after we implimented some of the fixes. In our case, the fine was response influenced. The EPA and state regarded it as an effective "working with industry story" and we avoided a larger fine and significant oversight. If we had dodged or delayed, I'm sure it would've been resolved in a courthouse too like VW. The same or more renediation, prevention, and monitoring would've happened since we were only ones around who could've put what we did in the water. We just would've paid more going to court and our cooperation would've influenced the judge when the fine was set.

If you look at how violations of the Federal Clean Air Act have been handled to date, cooperation matters. I have no way of knowing except by looking at the fines leveled to date. You have zero evidence to contrary so your belief is no more valid than mine. They're not the first ones to violate it and won't be the last.

No one said it would reduce the fine from 15 billion to 900 million except you. Don't put those words in my mouth. They came out of yours.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeesh. What were you guys dumping in the water?

 

[Random_Vibration]

Yeesh. What were you guys dumping in the water?

We were not dumping into the water, it was in the rain water run off due to insufficient preventative barriers and I rather not say what it was.

 

[tsingtao]

No one said it would reduce the fine from 15 billion to 900 million except you. Don't put those words in my mouth. They came out of yours.

Most of the expense to VW is not a "fine" paid to the government but the cost of buying back the vehicles and paying the several thousand dollar "restitution" to the owners of said vehicles.

For example, they are buying my 2009 back at $9300 plus $5100 restitution.

If all of the ~450000 vehicles cost them the same that would be 6.5 billion dollars. However, most of the vehicles are newer and the payout is much higher. One of my co-workers is getting $23K for hers.

 

[cevans]

No one said it would reduce the fine from 15 billion to 900 million except you. Don't put those words in my mouth. They came out of yours.

Confused

They were my words...

 

[Got diesel]

At lease Chevy will have a few Diesels to pick from. I'm waiting on the Equinox with the 1.6 Diesel for 2018 ! and it looks like it will be nice as well 40 MPG for an SUV ...Im in.

 

[jasonTDI]

Unrealistic?
Every other manufacturer seemed to meet the spec. Chevy, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover...all bringing new diesels too.

No, they didn't. None except the NEWEST 4 cyl jag is for sale right now.

 

[jasonTDI]

Time for Mazda to shine.

Mazda...the biggest depreciating stone on the planet. Noisy tinny cars. even the new ones. Only one that holds its value is a Miata.

 

[jasonTDI]

They are, in fact. The EPA has levied hefty fines on a number of makers of tuning boxes that make those truck roll coal.

Yep. Millions in fine. My RAM 2500 makes 350/800. How much more do you need? It'll outrun anything that cant to 7's 0-60 as well. Tows a 12k lb trailer with no issue and will still do 13mpg.

 

[jasonTDI]

At lease Chevy will have a few Diesels to pick from. I'm waiting on the Equinox with the 1.6 Diesel for 2018 ! and it looks like it will be nice as well 40 MPG for an SUV ...Im in.

An Equinox....wouldn't exactly call it an SUV. Crap tow capacity too.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Big mistake by VW but I guess they are a bit gun shy, can't blame them.

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Yep. Millions in fine. My RAM 2500 makes 350/800. How much more do you need? It'll outrun anything that cant to 7's 0-60 as well. Tows a 12k lb trailer with no issue and will still do 13mpg.

Better mpg, take all that emission crap off and get another 5-7 mpg. Which is better, slightly dirty diesels that get steller mpg or clean diesels that get meh mpg?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Here's my alternative to a 2017 (or a 2015) TDI:

Just got it back after a transmission service, new injection pump seal, coolant line fixes, alignment, blower motor replacement. Runs smooth, tracks straight, silent at 75 MPH, and gets 32-34 MPG. Doesn't care about fuel quality. Only 196K on it and if I can keep it from rusting it'll go another 200K. Doesn't meet anyone's current emissions standards.

 

[HBarlow]

Here's my alternative to a 2017 (or a 2015) TDI:

Just got it back after a transmission service, new injection pump seal, coolant line fixes, alignment, blower motor replacement. Runs smooth, tracks straight, silent at 75 MPH, and gets 32-34 MPG. Doesn't care about fuel quality. Only 196K on it and if I can keep it from rusting it'll go another 200K. Doesn't meet anyone's current emissions standards.

I've always admired the later turbocharged MB 300SDs. Ten or more years back my wife owned a BMW 3 series that we always had serviced by a friend who owned a private shop. He had one of those old MB sedans he used as a loaner. I drove it a couple of times and liked it.

I see them at auction on http://www.bringatrailer.com. I've read the descriptions and thought about bidding several times but never did.

Very good cars if the owner is willing to spend a little money to maintain them.

 

[jasonTDI]

Better mpg, take all that emission crap off and get another 5-7 mpg. Which is better, slightly dirty diesels that get steller mpg or clean diesels that get meh mpg?

Yep. Warranty almost up.

 

[CHDriver]

I am letting VW buyback my 2010 Golf TDI. Not because I'm PO'd at VW, because I love the car, but because in my "declining" years I need a car with more safety options, i.e. blind spot monitor, back-up camera, lane depart warning, etc. The Golf has been an absolutely great/fun car to drive and own. And, I will only buy/own diesels in the future. So I've bought a CPO 2016 BMW 328d xDrive Sport Wagon! A lot of money for a car but a lot of car for the money!

I think VW got screwed by the feds, while other manufacturers whose failures killed people got a slap on the wrist.

 

[marcusku]

If one was going to write a letter to VW voice a message that they should continue VW diesels at least in some form, does anyone know where it could go so the right person reads it? Not that it will do any good but can't hurt. Definitely sucks!