Hmm, the Passat TDI broke the figures right out of the box. In town is easily 30 mpg and out of town exceeds 41.MrMopar said:That, and I'm sure the list is ranked purely by EPA figures.
Every owner of a TDI knows that the engines usually beat their EPA numbers after a good 30,000 mile break in period. But posting closer to 50 MPG that late into ownership doesn't get the car on the list when they test numbers from a brand new car.
Acidhead said:It's been reported that those hybids don't get the mpg as they claim. Also there have been questions about how long that battery might last which is unknown at this time and the cost to replace it won't be cheap.Also another issue that you don't hear is that if a hybrid is in an accident and the battery is ruptured,EMT's will wait for the fire dept haz mat team to respond first before helping. And as someone that works with haz mat I can tell you that you will be handed a bill for the clean up and that will be expensive. Your insurance policy may not cover that only because its not the policy.
Sorry just wanted to bring those points up. However I always got better mileage than what was claimed. I get 42-45mpg the wife gets 47-49mpg
Like the article said.Question: Will I be electrocuted if I touch a hybrid vehicle in a crash?
Answer: Other than if an external power source such as a down power line, no and this is no different than safety provided for a conventional vehicle rescue. The hybrid high voltage system is isolated from the body chassis.
Question: Will I be electrocuted if I touch a hybrid vehicle submersed in water?
Answer: No, while there maybe some leakage, it will not be detectable simply by touching the body or frame of the vehicle.
Question: Is it necessary to call for a HAZMAT response if the high voltage battery pack is ruptured during a crash?
Answer: No, there is not enough electrolyte in the individual modules or in the entire battery pack. Leakage will be very minimal if at all, and usually will be contained with in the modules even if the casing was breached during a catastrophic crash. The electrolyte is considered a gel, having the consistency of a machine oil and is absorbed within a fiber material between the metal plates. Spills can be cleaned up with a suitable absorbent for a strong base, diluted with water and neutralized with vinegar.
Question: At a resent Toyota hybrid crash we saw a clear fluid leak and grayish vapor coming from the trunk, was this from the high voltage NiMH battery pack?
Answer: No, there are 12V conventional automotive batteries, in a severe rear end or offset crash the 12V battery maybe subject to impact. The reaction you saw is similar to that of a conventional vehicle when the 12V automotive battery is ruptured during a crash.
Question: Is there a chance that the high voltage system will electrify the vehicle's body chassis?
Answer: No, like the GIF in your bathroom, the hybrid system also has a ground fault protection should a high voltage cable come in contact with the vehicle's body or chassis.
What Can I do?
Start educating yourself to hybrid technology, now is the time not at 0300 in the morning. Fuel cell vehicles are knocking at the door and will be available to the consumer within the next decade.
Yeah, I wouldn't spend a penny on the current guinea pig gas hybrids. I'd much rather enjoy my TDI and wait for a Diesel Hybrid. Those will offer some real nice MPG and won't need to be falsely inflated by the EPA for sales like the pius. Current hybrids can't even beat my TDI for MPG (unless I happen to be driving in the inner city all day...which is never!) so I wouldn't even consider them special in any way accept that they will pave the way for the diesel hybrids. I do look forward to seeing those come out, the MPG they offer will actually make them worth the extra money (unlike current hybrids).Acidhead said:It's been reported that those hybids don't get the mpg as they claim. Also there have been questions about how long that battery might last which is unknown at this time and the cost to replace it won't be cheap.Sorry just wanted to bring those points up. However I always got better mileage than what was claimed. I get 42-45mpg the wife gets 47-49mpg
Right you are. My TDI got 47 MPG on the first highway trip I took. No break-in period needed to exceed the EPA listing. The yaris is a nice car if you like tiny tin boxes with no room. It weighs much less than a TDI and it still doesn't do as good as a TDI on MPG!! A diesel Mini Cooper would be nice.nawlej said:OK, I understand about the model year limitation ... but doesn't even a brand new TDI beat a Yaris gasser?
Actually, early reports have the new 08 model TDI getting 60 MPG. It may be a bit optimistic but with a 6 speed stick and Common Rail tech, it could come close. That certainly would keep the TDI at the top of the list. And the extra weight is nice because it makes the car more suitable for driving w/out that cramped feeling all the time. These new TDI's are solid and very safe while still being sporty with excellent handling, I appreciate that about them.supton said:No 2007 VW diesel. Although, the way the Jetta's have been growing in weight, I'd doubt they'd make the list anyhow when they are available again...
How are the current hybrids "guinea pigs", and the future diesel version not? These "guinea pigs" have been on market for a few years now, and the sky hasn't fallen on them just yet. Over-hyped, yes; over priced, yes; but hardly a flop.Txst said:Yeah, I wouldn't spend a penny on the current guinea pig gas hybrids. I'd much rather enjoy my TDI and wait for a Diesel Hybrid. Those will offer some real nice MPG and won't need to be falsely inflated by the EPA for sales like the pius. Current hybrids can't even beat my TDI for MPG (unless I happen to be driving in the inner city all day...which is never!) so I wouldn't even consider them special in any way accept that they will pave the way for the diesel hybrids. I do look forward to seeing those come out, the MPG they offer will actually make them worth the extra money (unlike current hybrids).
Never said they were a flop. I said I wouldn't spend a penny on the current hybrid guinea pigs (which is what they are). Being out a few years hardly makes them have a history. They offer very little. A diesel hybrid OTOH would offer very good MPG. Well above anything we see right now for sure. My TDI still easily beats any current hybrid on the highway. Therefore; nothing special from any hybrids at this point. If I'm gonna have to fork out huge bucks for a hybrid battery, it better be in a car that can offer much better MPG than any currently can because I'm not going to drive around the inner city streets all day just to try and beat a TDI in the MPG area. You can either settle for an ugly pius (which the TDI still beats easily on the highway for MPG) or get some other expensive gas hybrid that offers nothing special. Neither of these choices are any good IMO. I'll wait for a diesel hybrid...that would actually be worth purchasing because of the high MPG. For what the current hybrids offer, it wouldn't be wise IMO to gamble on them being worth it in the end. A diesel hybrid would offer the kinds of MPG numbers that IMO would be worth taking that step. Besides, many of the bugs that are being worked out of current hybrids will also help with future diesel hybrids so they won't nearly be as much of a "guinea pig". Certain areas of course will be new, but many areas will have been covered and advanced. Therefore; current hybrids are over-hyped and over-priced guinea pigs, while not being nearly as cute as the real thing! ;-)supton said:How are the current hybrids "guinea pigs", and the future diesel version not? These "guinea pigs" have been on market for a few years now, and the sky hasn't fallen on them just yet. Over-hyped, yes; over priced, yes; but hardly a flop.
Of course I realize the diesel hybrid will need a similar battery. When did I ever say that a diesel hybrid wouldn't need a battery? That's why they call it a hybrid!! I was saying that if I was going to spend a huge amount of money on a battery for a hybrid car, the car had better get much better MPG than any hybrids currently get. Initial cost of a diesel hybrid may be slightly higher, but the huge savings in fuel will pay for itself in a short amount of time and then the savings adds up incredibly fast.supton said:Diesel hybrid w/o a battery... ? You do realize that the same battery you malign for the gas powered hybrid will be in your desired diesel hybrid, right? Plus, the diesel motor will still cost more than the gas powered motor. Which is to say it'll cost even more than the current crop of gas powered hybrids, IMO.
I'm with you on that...I would prefer a 50-60 MPG TDI as well. But if I was in the market for a hybrid, it would be a diesel hybrid in the near future and not the current guinea pigs they are pumping out right now that aren't very impressive (especially for the cost). Forget the yaris or pius and get a TDI. But for hybrid lovers...a diesel hybrid will make much more sense. I hope to get many good years out of my TDI, then I'll see what's new. Hopefully there will be many options (unlike now as far as diesels). I'm liking the looks of the new 07 Mini Cooper with the Peugot diesel engine. They're dumping the old and slow toyota engine they were using.MrMopar said:Skip the hybrid, and just give me a high-mileage diesel. I'll take the money otherwise spent on a hybrid battery pack, and invest it. The rate of return with interest will outpace any fuel savings. Do the math of a Toyota Yaris compared to a Toyota Prius.
I too hit the ground running with my TDI. 50 mpg's driving 60-63 @ 1700 miles on odometer. Autoweek also tested an '06 Jetta TDI right out of the box with 49.9 mpg! It can be done before breakin.Txst said:Right you are. My TDI got 47 MPG on the first highway trip I took. No break-in period needed to exceed the EPA listing.