flyboy320
Veteran Member
Here is a reply from a tank driver here in Ontario about carrying RUG and diesel in the same tanker between loads.
NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation
- Thread starter dzcad90
- Start date
Plus 3 Golfer
Veteran Member
In switch loading even if there is RUG in the tanker, you still need an ignition source. Static discharge of mixing and flowing fuel is a well known phenomenon. Lowering the initial flow rate of ULSD into the tanker limits the build up of voltage potential as the ULSD is pumped in. My guess is most terminal operations have detection devices to keep the potential builup of the flowing ULSD below the threshold of static discharge by adjusting flow rate.
Since the tanker driver may take some short cuts and not adequately remove all gas before loading ULSD, there should be adequate safety devices to prevent static discharge. If driver is getting paid by the load, it wouldn't surprise me if some wouldn't simply skip the step of draining gas that has settled to the bottom of the tanker from the sidewalls and other areas of the tanker prior to filling with ULSD.
I don't know how much gas might be in an "empty" tanker, but 30 gallons of gas in a 3,000 gallon compartment or 100 gallons in a 10,000 gallon tanker is 1% mixture. So, how does that affect lubricity of the retail fuel?
According to Chevron:
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
I worked on projects in two Chevron terminals and three Murphy terminals within the last few years. All five had third party lubricity additive systems and tank trucks had separate compartments for D2 & gasoline. I can't speculate on how the service stations handle incoming product with respect to contamination safeguards.
RNDDUDE
Veteran Member
So it seems that there exist both types of tankers....separate compartment versions and single compartment versions. It appears that in switch loading single compartment tankers there is a slightly increased possibility of trace contamination when changing loads. However, even with clean fuel in either version, dropping fuel into the wrong tanks at the station could happen with either. In the past, this would have only had the impact of vehicles, both gas and diesel versions, running poorly if they recieved cross-contaminated fuel, but not likely to damage them. But nowdays, of course, different story. I am inclined to believe that tank drop errors at the stations are the cause of way more misfueling than we might believe.
nicklockard
Torque Dorque
This^^
Diesel's dirty little secret is the non-existent controls on the fuel distribution side. The best diesel on the planet can be ruined by one inattentive truck driver.
Diesel's dirty little secret is the non-existent controls on the fuel distribution side. The best diesel on the planet can be ruined by one inattentive truck driver.
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
Well said..
when i were in Italy this summer i stopped to refuel my mother in law Rav4 Diesel.
The attendant at the station came to me and said that i had to wait another hour before refueling from his station, because he just had a truck dumping diesel in the tank and therefore i needed to wait. He said it was a standard procedure. I guess he was afraid of possible debrief that were sitting at the bottom of the tank.
The attendant at the station came to me and said that i had to wait another hour before refueling from his station, because he just had a truck dumping diesel in the tank and therefore i needed to wait. He said it was a standard procedure. I guess he was afraid of possible debrief that were sitting at the bottom of the tank.
I'm glad you like your car, but I feel that you are driving on borrowed time. The question is not if you will have a failure but when.
I really like my TDI and have not had any problems except the HPFP, and it has happened twice to me in 238,000 miles. I am fixing it myself this time because VW will not cover it. If I had to pay both times that would be about $13,000 dollars in two repairs. That is an outragious cost in repairs.
40,000 miles is not a lot of miles I do that in 7 months.
I may have one in a week or two.
amy1000
Well-known member
Fact: My HPFP failed. Fact: My car was in dealer to fix it four times for a total of 45 days in July thru October 2012. Fact: VoA denied me replacement of new fuel system when they first diagnosed my HPFP (with metal shard in filter too) preferring to only replace the pump at the initial failure, then only the fuel pump in the tank on third visit. On my car's fourth visit they only approved replacing the fuel rail. When the dealer took it out to test drive...the fuel rail failed. That finally prompted them to approve replacement the whole contaminated fuel system (which should have been done on day one of my HPFP failure). Fact: A very stressful and frustrating experience, especially worring about the safety issue and dealing with VoA customer 'uncaring' advocate.
Hope it doesn't happen to you GTIdan.
dweisel
Top Post Dawg
never going to happen to gtidan!
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
When it happens to him, he certainly won't tell us about it!
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
How do they know if FUEL CONTAMINATION has been an issue?
Have they pumped out every fuel tank from the victim cars and documented that there is indeed gasoline in the fuel tank?
Have they pumped out every fuel tank from the victim cars and documented that there is indeed gasoline in the fuel tank?
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Well yes kind of. They did test over 800 cars fuel. Plus they used to do the infamous Styrofoam cup test.
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
So they found gasoline contamination in 800 cars.Well yes kind of. They did test over 800 cars fuel. Plus they used to do the infamous Styrofoam cup test.
I wonder if the rest of the TDi universe (cars which have never had HPFP failure) have been tested for gasoline fuel contamination, and come out clean.
It may be that ALL diesel pumping stations have been contaminated one time or another, and only the cars with the failing HPFP have been tested.
My brother is a truck driver, and he told me horror stories a couple of years ago when the low sulfur diesel was brought to market. Back then, the problem reported was 'ALGAE' contamination (a thick goo that looked like algae, but was probably some paraffin precipitate).
Come to think of it, my former Beetle TDi 2000 fuel sender in the tank failed at that time.
DubFamily
Veteran Member
No, they tested more than 800 fuel samples; of those iirc ~25% were contaminated; but many more were also out of spec.
The specifics are right here in the recent additions.
The specifics are right here in the recent additions.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Please read what I wrote and don't read into it. I never said all 800 were contaminated.
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Can you give me a link to this 800 fuel tank study?
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Go to the NHTSA site and find the documents. Links have been posted many times already here.
WutGas?
Veteran Member
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Thanks!!!!!!!
WutGas?
Veteran Member
No problemo!
Plus 3 Golfer
Veteran Member
Guess which dealer has done the most Warranty Repairs?
Open the multimedia file to see more.
Open the multimedia file to see more.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
Gorman, Hewlett, Momentum and Maund (maybe Boardwalk) all in Texas with high numbers. Looks like a lot of those are from Texas.
dweisel
Top Post Dawg
LOL! Yeah, I sorta figured that one out already.When it happens to him, he certainly won't tell us about it!
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Why are most of these dealers in California???Open the multimedia file to see more.
WutGas?
Veteran Member
Probably because there are more sold there than anyone else. 32K sold in California....next highest is Texas at 16K.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
High population there? More cars sold there than any where else? The top 3 seem to be in Texas, with a bunch of others as well.
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Makes sense, but I wonder if there is an Airhead factor here...
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
To some extent maybe, but who knows. They don't make them register or anything.