NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

[aja8888]

All cars for sale these days are only driven "all highway miles".

 

[jbright]

When I was growing up, you did not want to own a car with over 100K miles on it. Espicalliy living in the mid-west salt belt. You ran that many miles and you knew that the underbody and frame members were being held together with rust. That's also where the "highway" miles versus "city" miles came from.

Sold my 1994 Grand Marquis last year with 240K on the odometer. Still ran great and was just starting to rust a little bit around the wheel wells.

 

[torqueit]

The math is getting interesting. How is the 45% accomplished without draining some of the crankcase oil off. Seems that the oil level should be high if almost half of the crankcase oil were biodiesel / biodiesel D2 mix. I wonder if the 45% should actually be 4.5%. There seems to be a mistake in math somewhere. I have made goofs before and we just need to know what is going on.

eddif

I was thinking the same thing.

Wouldn't you notice the overfill issue if you add 2 extra quarts of oil to the crankcase?

 

[bhtooefr]

Well, there's continual oil loss, as well - but it's negligible.

The thing is, fuel dilution is such a minor problem on pre-DPF cars running diesel or even properly produced biodiesel... and they'd lose oil at the same rate as DPF cars - potentially more, in fact, due to not needing to boost EGR as much. So, you'd expect a pre-DPF car to be losing a quart every couple thousand miles, if there were that much oil dilution on a DPF car running biodiesel.

 

[dreamerak]

This might be the answer to modern diesel problems. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/0...iofuel-faster-more-efficient-to-produce-says/

 

[jaymzaugust]

Fuel Sample Per VW Request

Hey all, I figured I'd post this and do my part to keep the conspiracy alive!

Yesterday, I stopped into my VW dealer for an oil change on my '09 Jetta tdi. The first thing I noticed was a rather large bulky item on the top shelf back in the parts room... It makes me wonder if they're stocking these now

http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/jaymz01/?action=view&current=IMG_0045.jpg

Closer view of item in question http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/jaymz01/FuelTank.jpg

The next item of interest was when i got my invoice:

I asked service counter guy about it and he said "Its just something VW is having us do on all the '09s. We take a little tiny amount of gas and send it to VW. We're supposed to do this on 20 of the '09s." Soooo, I'm not sure what this means; it might be nothing. But a person has to hope that VW is quietly trying to find a remedy for this fuel/HPFP/lubricity issue.

 

[Lightflyer1]

An excuse, not a remedy.

"We take a little tiny amount of gas and send it to VW." GAS?

 

[GraniteRooster]

Where the HE*L to they get off taking fuel without asking or without reimbursement!!!??? Unreal....

VW needs an ethics lesson......

 

[Conan]

Really. "I could have gone twenty miles on that vial!"

 

[LRTDI]

Car dealers stealing gas from customer cars diesel powered cars....and sending it to VW for testing?

Sounds to me like they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[jaymzaugust]

Where the HE*L to they get off taking fuel without asking or without reimbursement!!!??? Unreal....

VW needs an ethics lesson......

LOLZ

Thats not even the worst part, I made it 15 miles down the road when i stopped to run an errand. Upon returning to my car i noticed the back bumper and trunk were covered in oil. Knowing immediately what was wrong, I slowly looked underneath the car to confirm... Yeppers, its leaking oil. I called the dealer and the lady told me to just drive it back to the service garage . So I did. Long story short (minus me freaking out on the first poor VW employee who approached me), the oil filter housing wasn't tightened. They drained the remaining "over 2 and a half quarts of oil" from the oil pan.

So yeah, 2 oil changes and 2 carwashes in 30 miles = $55.55. The manager is supposed to be calling me, but he wasn't quite fast enough to make things right before I filled out the VW satisfaction survey I had in my inbox today....

 

[kjclow]

Makes me glad that I'm not in Iowa doing business with that dealer. Going to tell us who it was?

 

[jaymzaugust]

Yeah why not, Performance Volkswagen in Omaha Nebraska. I asked about getting a refund for the 1st initial oil change, and the guy said we're not going to charge you for this one (meaning the 2nd one) and I'll talk with the manager about getting you the next 2 or 3 free. I don't know if I'd ever take my car there again, but if they at least do SOMETHING it'd make me feel better.

I don't think they understood the fact that if I wouldn't have stopped for that errand, I'd have been on the interstate for another 40 miles... Since all of this was right at 6pm, most of the mechanics were gone including the idiot who cause the problem initially. The guy who did the 2nd oil change stepped into the car dropoff/pickup garage to let me know he cut into the old filter and didn't find any metal filings. He actually got wide eyed when i told him i wasn't even half way home. Seriously, if my car was any other color (its white), or i decided to walk around the front bumber instead of the back = engine death

 

[kjclow]

I would push for at least another free oil change. I got one out of Keffer VW for putting the wrong tire on my car. Put a big screw through the tire at about 12K and Keffer was the only one in town that had the Hankooks instock. Went up there on a Friday to have them swap it out. Noticed on Monday (daughter disappeared with the car about five minutes after I got home on Friday until I left for work Monday) that they put on a goodrich tire. Called up to tell them when I would be there to get the correct tire. They offered to take and fill it or a 10K service. I took the 10K service because I wouldn't trust them to fill it now. So I also have my 40K service covered. Hope it will include the DSG fluid replcement.

 

[Derrel H Green]

Maybe IF You're Lucky

So I also have my 40K service covered. Hope it will include the DSG fluid replacement.

If they will do that, you are coming out smelling 'like a rose'!
Around here, the dealers are charging $4 bills for that alone!



D

 

[DEZLBOY]

Where the HE*L to they get off taking fuel without asking or without reimbursement!!!??? Unreal....
VW needs an ethics lesson......

Taking something that isn't yours without permission is stealing. Period. Stealing. Sounds like VW owes someone oil changes for life! And if you asked VW why they were taking your "gas", VW wouldn't tell you they are having issues with the HPFP. So, let's see, VW steals your property and likely lies to you about it.

<rant> I know, I know, but this issue (along with others) has me really thinking of a Honda Fit or Hyundai Elantra Touring/Accent as my next car. Yes, I may miss the solid feel of the VW, but not the BS..... </rant>

 

[eddif]

Yeah why not, Performance Volkswagen in Omaha Nebraska. I asked about getting a refund for the 1st initial oil change, and the guy said we're not going to charge you for this one (meaning the 2nd one) and I'll talk with the manager about getting you the next 2 or 3 free. I don't know if I'd ever take my car there again, but if they at least do SOMETHING it'd make me feel better.

I don't think they understood the fact that if I wouldn't have stopped for that errand, I'd have been on the interstate for another 40 miles... Since all of this was right at 6pm, most of the mechanics were gone including the idiot who cause the problem initially. The guy who did the 2nd oil change stepped into the car dropoff/pickup garage to let me know he cut into the old filter and didn't find any metal filings. He actually got wide eyed when i told him i wasn't even half way home. Seriously, if my car was any other color (its white), or i decided to walk around the front bumber instead of the back = engine death

I would push for at least another free oil change. I got one out of Keffer VW for putting the wrong tire on my car. Put a big screw through the tire at about 12K and Keffer was the only one in town that had the Hankooks instock. Went up there on a Friday to have them swap it out. Noticed on Monday (daughter disappeared with the car about five minutes after I got home on Friday until I left for work Monday) that they put on a goodrich tire. Called up to tell them when I would be there to get the correct tire. They offered to take and fill it or a 10K service. I took the 10K service because I wouldn't trust them to fill it now. So I also have my 40K service covered. Hope it will include the DSG fluid replcement.

I suppose that NHTSA reads all this thread. What you are talking about does not directly relate to the HPFP issues, but it surely does relate to safety. The HPFPs go out and sometimes cause traffic problems. The transmissions require special service or they can cause driving safety issues. The intercooler icing can cause driving safety issues. Then VW service sometimes destroys engines: glow plugs, oil changes, botched repairs of all sorts, etc. VW is not the enemy, but disaster is hanging around somewhere close.

eddif

 

[kjclow]

VW is not the enemy, but disaster is hanging around somewhere close.

eddif

No VW is not the enemy but it does seem like they make some bone head decisions at times. Like the possiblity of going with a more sensitive fuel pump to sae a few bucks. I know all manufacturers do it and hope that they don't get caught by premature failures. Heck, most of us do it at home at least once.

 

[DPM]

Taking something that isn't yours without permission is stealing. Period. Stealing. Sounds like VW owes someone oil changes for life! And if you asked VW why they were taking your "gas", VW wouldn't tell you they are having issues with the HPFP. So, let's see, VW steals your property and likely lies to you about it.

<rant> I know, I know, but this issue (along with others) has me really thinking of a Honda Fit or Hyundai Elantra Touring/Accent as my next car. Yes, I may miss the solid feel of the VW, but not the BS..... </rant>

Wanna sue for the fuel lost during a filter change?

 

[DEZLBOY]

Wanna sue for the fuel lost during a filter change?

Yes. Class Action Suit! <----sarcasm icon

 

[nyrussell]

Wanna sue for the fuel lost during a filter change?

Lost fuel for a filter change? Better turn the flow off at the tank

 

[Conan]

They checked my oil without my permission. They wiped the oil that I OWN off with a RAG! I'm suing.

 

[kjclow]

What about the air they stole from me when replacing my tire?

 

[aja8888]

What about the air they stole from me when replacing my tire?

I would demand they replace it with pure nitrogen as a bonus.

 

[Smaug]

I've been reading this off and on for several months.
Is the risk of failure reduced by using an aftermarket fuel flitration system? Like those secondary CAT filters I see installed in some TDIs?

 

[kjclow]

The best option for a failproof filtration system would be after the HPFP, which I think has already been discussed as not being feisable due to the pressure and fuel flow. placing it after the HPFP would insure that the filter catches the majority of the shrapnel if the pump fails. One option that I would like to see (again already discussed) is a water seperator prior to the HPFP. That way we could have a chance of keeping most if not all of the water in our fuel from going across the hpfp.

 

[oxford_guy]

Yes. Class Action Suit!

There is a class action lawsuit over the HPFP (look in the Golf subforum). BMW is also being sued.

Of course, those suits are not over small amounts of money.

 

[bhtooefr]

kjclow: That doesn't answer the question, though. That answers "how do I contain a failure that's inevitable", not, "how do I prevent a failure".

I agree that better filtration and water separation MAY be the answer, based on the trucks with the same design HPFP, but better filtration and water separation, that aren't seeing failures.

 

[tditom]

... BMW is also being sued...

Note that the BMW HPFP issue does not effect their diesel models- only the gassers.

 

[eddif]

The best option for a failproof filtration system would be after the HPFP, which I think has already been discussed as not being feisable due to the pressure and fuel flow. placing it after the HPFP would insure that the filter catches the majority of the shrapnel if the pump fails. One option that I would like to see (again already discussed) is a water seperator prior to the HPFP. That way we could have a chance of keeping most if not all of the water in our fuel from going across the hpfp.

This thread is for the News on safety related issues. This failure puts a person in traffic with either limp mode or total loss of power.

I wish you would go to the HPFP investigation thread and discuss the location of the filter with us there. Oilhammer thread.

In my opinion the HPFP has two pressure areas:
1..The main inner area where the cam, roller and slide are located. This area has 65psi (?) of pressure.
2..The High Pressure part of the pump where the 25,000psi is generated.

The wear materials are generated in the 65psi part of the pump. If you add a filter at 65psi you capture the wear materials before the High Pressure part of the pump and also filter the return fuel going to the tank. In other words: if you keep the wear materials out of the High Pressure part of the pump, it will not put trash into the common rail or injectors, and if the wear materials are captured at 65psi the return fuel will be clean.

I agree that it might seem necessary to filter at 25,000 psi, but it is not.

I do not want to flood this thread with all this. Please read the suggested thread or ask and I will restate any questions you have there (As much as possible by a shadetree jerk from Mississippi)

eddif