NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

ihatespeed

Veteran Member
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Jan 12, 2013
Location
holbrook, ma
TDI
11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's)
Man, that's a tough one, since VW sent out the extended warranty letter for hpfp last month Id say they have pretty much taken a corporate stand on how long they will cover blown hpfp's. 4k sucks, better to go to a indy shop and have them install some of 2 microns parts with a new pump.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Go look up the HPFP on the gas 335i.

Facts - my gas 335i blew 2 HPFP by 35K. Got rid of it at 37K miles for a TDI wagon.

Drove TDI wagion for 117K miles. No HPFP failure.

The HPFP failure rate on the N54 BMW engine is far, far higher than the HPFP failure rate on the CR 2.0 TDI. Facts.

Interesting but kinda makes sense being a gasser, less lubrication from the gasoline. What about diesel failure rate?

Bosch sure messed things up, :mad:
 

tditom

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san antonio & austin
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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Interesting but kinda makes sense being a gasser, less lubrication from the gasoline. What about diesel failure rate?

Bosch sure messed things up, :mad:
My money says VW, not Bosch, screwed this up. Bosch has been very successful in making diesel fuel injection components for this market. They did fine with BMW and MB. I know that when BMW re-introduced their diesels in 2009 they opted to add a coating to the internals of the fuel pump to deal with "differences" in US fuel. For all we know Bosch did the same for the CP4.1 pump on the BMW 4 cyl diesels and recommended the same for VW on the tdi. I'm not sure we'll ever know but it seems very odd that Bosch has been so successful elsewhere.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
My money says VW, not Bosch, screwed this up. Bosch has been very successful in making diesel fuel injection components for this market. They did fine with BMW and MB. I know that when BMW re-introduced their diesels in 2009 they opted to add a coating to the internals of the fuel pump to deal with "differences" in US fuel. For all we know Bosch did the same for the CP4.1 pump on the BMW 4 cyl diesels and recommended the same for VW on the tdi. I'm not sure we'll ever know but it seems very odd that Bosch has been so successful elsewhere.
Maybe, I guess we'll never know the truth, :(

GM is having some issues with the new CP4 whereas the old CP3 was tough as nails in the Dmax.
 

Smokin_Joe

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Location
Surrey BC
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2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
Maybe, I guess we'll never know the truth, :(

GM is having some issues with the new CP4 whereas the old CP3 was tough as nails in the Dmax.
Probably coincidence but this is the last paragraph in "the history of Bosch"
Googled off the internet.
Hard to say where the cp4 design was forged but it really doesn't seem to be up to snuff.
Company Ceo changed in 2003
http://www.bosch.com/media/com/bosc...s/firmenchronik/Bosch_History_at_a_Glance.pdf
The global economic crisis in 2008/2009 caused Bosch sales to fall by around
15 percent to approximately 38.2 billion euros in fiscal 2009, and meant that
the company recorded an operating loss for the first time since the second
world war. But in 2010, Bosch had left the crisis behind – with the highest
turnover of the company’s history.
The crisis did not affect the company’s l
ong-term strategy, a strategy which is
not only geared toward opening up promising areas of business, but also
incorporates an understanding of corporate responsibility based on the
principles of the company founder Robert Bosch. He appreciated that
corporate responsibility was essentially about finding a balance between
business success and social concerns. The task now is to expand this
concept to include environmental protection. In 2007, Franz Fehrenbach said:
“Our top priority is without question to secure the company’s long-term future,
but we are also equally committed to doing so by achieving a balance
between ecology, economy, and [...] corporate social responsibility.” This
statement is based on the belief that a company will only be successful in the
long term if it pursues a policy of sustainable business management and does
not infringe on social and ecological interests
.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Nice find. Off topic but I will not use Bosch reman or new starters and alternators for anything other than imports-IE VW, BMW. For some reason, the Domestic stuff and some imports IE Honda, they fail 3 out of 4? Things that make you go hmmm.
 

Smokin_Joe

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Surrey BC
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2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
Nice find. Off topic but I will not use Bosch reman or new starters and alternators for anything other than imports-IE VW, BMW. For some reason, the Domestic stuff and some imports IE Honda, they fail 3 out of 4? Things that make you go hmmm.
Funny though Bosch makes great products.
In many different fields....
Far superior to their competitors.
Don't know where this design for the cp4 is going....
 

JBell

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Joined
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Location
None
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None
And just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, the HPFP hasn't been redesigned so it won't implode again, right? Meaning, if VWoA replaces the HPFP under warranty, there isn't any groundbreaking design that's going to prevent it from happening again in the next 100K miles?
 

turbovan+tdi

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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
And just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, the HPFP hasn't been redesigned so it won't implode again, right? Meaning, if VWoA replaces the HPFP under warranty, there isn't any groundbreaking design that's going to prevent it from happening again in the next 100K miles?
Correct. The only sure fire thing to help is the 2 micron kit which limits the damage so only the pump needs replacing and not the whole fuel system.
 

nate0031

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Joined
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Location
SE Ohio
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96 B4 Passat
Care to share (God I hate that word. Tried looking for the "strike through" icon above but alas couldn't find one).
Care to TELL EVERYBODY what these "lots of filtration" and "2 micron kits" are about.
But more importantly, why one should have to go to an extra expense on an already expensive car to begin with, that has a fuel system designed by engineers that get paid a pretty penny?? (That's a rhetorical ? just in case you don't get it!).
During my swap, after hearing about the failures others have had, I added a 14 micron filter and water separator, and a 2 micron filter prior to the stock fuel filter. I then installed 2micron's pure flow kit. I made my own contain flow setup, as 2 Micron's wouldn't fit in my application.

If you aren't familiar with how fuel moves through the pump, it flows through the cam section of the pump to lubricate it, then into the pump cylinder to get pumped to the engine. Ergo when the cam and roller fail (which are the parts that go ), the debris travels into the pump and through the rest of the system, requiring full replacement. The pure flow kit separates these flows, so the fuel getting pumped to the injectors always comes straight from the tank, not from the cam section of the pump. The fuel that lubes the cam only lubes the cam, then goes back to tank. The contain flow kit adds a 1 micron filter to the cam sections' return to tank. So if the cam does go, the debris won't go to the injectors thanks to the pure flow kit, and it will get filtered out by the 1 micron filter on the contain flow kit. This way, the only pieces you have to change are the ~$600 pump and ~$30 filter.

There has been a failure by a member with these kits installed, and he changed the pump and kept on motoring. Another benefit to the kit was, when his pump went, it wasn't sudden. He drove around 200 miles and noticed an increasing loss of power, then eventually got a low rail pressure code. Car didn't leave him stranded.

Thinking the high paid engineers screwed the pooch on this is probably the wrong way to go. Being an engineer, our best design attempts are often thwarted by the bean-counters desire to save a penny, often costing a dollar in the long run.
 
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Claudio

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Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
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09 Jetta SW
if you read the HPFP failure thread, VW has starting denying coverage for cars with 120K+ miles that had failure...as suspected...
 

jason_

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Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
grand rapids michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Does anybody have a complete list of what actually is replaced @ dealer when a pump goes?

Besides nuts and bolts. Curious of what components are deemed 'questionable' and damaged.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 

turbovan+tdi

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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Care to share (God I hate that word. Tried looking for the "strike through" icon above but alas couldn't find one).
Care to TELL EVERYBODY what these "lots of filtration" and "2 micron kits" are about.
But more importantly, why one should have to go to an extra expense on an already expensive car to begin with, that has a fuel system designed by engineers that get paid a pretty penny?? (That's a rhetorical ? just in case you don't get it!).
You have to remember, OE's try to spend the least amount of money to get their desired goal. Their goal is also to have the engine/car last long enough to pass their powertrain warranty and emission's warranty then after that, all bets are off. Many an aftermarket company has come out with products that save wear and tear, give better mpg etc but of course, they cost money and its up to us, if we want to spend that.

Does anybody have a complete list of what actually is replaced @ dealer when a pump goes?

Besides nuts and bolts. Curious of what components are deemed 'questionable' and damaged.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Go here-

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=443035
 

kjclow

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Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
That list may now be outdated with the extended warranty. There might be parts listed that the dealer is no longer being covered for replacement.
 

> Luke <

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Location
West Los Angeles
TDI
Golf 2011 TDi DSG
Fm > Jason
Does anybody have a complete list of what actually is replaced @ dealer when a pump goes?​
In my case, every-, and anything fuel related was replaced.
Out of the entire fuel system, the fuel tank was removed and cleaned.
anything which fuel touched was replaced. Lines, pumps, injectors...
I also had a new car given to me (180miles on it) and had the car for almost two weeks.

I have no idea what is being done now, though.
 

DCBarnard

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2015
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
TDI
2014 Golf 6 speed manual
My 2014 Golf had a HPFP failure a few weeks ago with just shy of 39k miles. Picked up the car today and the list on the invoice is:

1EA 03L-130-321 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-R PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-B PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-C PIPE
1EA 03L-130-089 FUEL DISTR
1EA 5N0-130-307-J PIPE
1EA 1K0-127-400-K FUEL FILTER
1EA 03L-130-235-S PIPE
4EA 03L-130-277-A INJECT UNIT
1EA 5NO-906-129-B FUEL PUMP
4EA 059-130-216-C PLATE
4EA WHT-000-884 SEAL RING
1EA 03L-201-360-G FUEL LINE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BJ HOSE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BG PIPE
1EA 1K0-919-050-AB FUEL UNIT
1EA 1K0-919-133-D WASHER
1EA 03L-130-851-AX PUMP
1EA 03L-130-238-A HUB

23402033 4 INJECTORS REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23731933 DISTRIBUTION RAIL REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23741933 HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL
20345599 FUEL FILTER REPLACE
20661900 R&R FUEL PUMP
20030750 FUEL BLEED
20382999 CLEAN FUEL LINES
20392999 RETURN LINE CLEAN
20102999 CLEAN FUEL TANK
20641933 PRIMARY PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL
 

Smokin_Joe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Location
Surrey BC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
Please report your failure to the NHTSA

My 2014 Golf had a HPFP failure a few weeks ago with just shy of 39k miles. Picked up the car today and the list on the invoice is:

1EA 03L-130-321 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-R PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-B PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-C PIPE
1EA 03L-130-089 FUEL DISTR
1EA 5N0-130-307-J PIPE
1EA 1K0-127-400-K FUEL FILTER
1EA 03L-130-235-S PIPE
4EA 03L-130-277-A INJECT UNIT
1EA 5NO-906-129-B FUEL PUMP
4EA 059-130-216-C PLATE
4EA WHT-000-884 SEAL RING
1EA 03L-201-360-G FUEL LINE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BJ HOSE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BG PIPE
1EA 1K0-919-050-AB FUEL UNIT
1EA 1K0-919-133-D WASHER
1EA 03L-130-851-AX PUMP
1EA 03L-130-238-A HUB

23402033 4 INJECTORS REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23731933 DISTRIBUTION RAIL REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23741933 HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL
20345599 FUEL FILTER REPLACE
20661900 R&R FUEL PUMP
20030750 FUEL BLEED
20382999 CLEAN FUEL LINES
20392999 RETURN LINE CLEAN
20102999 CLEAN FUEL TANK
20641933 PRIMARY PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL
Please report your failure to the NHTSA...
You could also post your failure in this thread as well
Thanks
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854
 

dan30thz28

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Location
Cream Ridge, NJ
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed Manual 2013 VW Sportwagen TDI 6-Speed Manual
So wait, they covered your repair free of charge? Before or after the letters went out for the other years of TDI. I'd really like to know, thanks!

Sincerely,
Dan


Quote:
Originally Posted by DCBarnard
My 2014 Golf had a HPFP failure a few weeks ago with just shy of 39k miles. Picked up the car today and the list on the invoice is:

1EA 03L-130-321 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301 PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-R PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-B PIPE
1EA 03L-130-301-C PIPE
1EA 03L-130-089 FUEL DISTR
1EA 5N0-130-307-J PIPE
1EA 1K0-127-400-K FUEL FILTER
1EA 03L-130-235-S PIPE
4EA 03L-130-277-A INJECT UNIT
1EA 5NO-906-129-B FUEL PUMP
4EA 059-130-216-C PLATE
4EA WHT-000-884 SEAL RING
1EA 03L-201-360-G FUEL LINE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BJ HOSE
1EA 1K0-130-307-BG PIPE
1EA 1K0-919-050-AB FUEL UNIT
1EA 1K0-919-133-D WASHER
1EA 03L-130-851-AX PUMP
1EA 03L-130-238-A HUB

23402033 4 INJECTORS REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23731933 DISTRIBUTION RAIL REMOVE AND REINSTALL
23741933 HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL
20345599 FUEL FILTER REPLACE
20661900 R&R FUEL PUMP
20030750 FUEL BLEED
20382999 CLEAN FUEL LINES
20392999 RETURN LINE CLEAN
20102999 CLEAN FUEL TANK
20641933 PRIMARY PUMP REMOVE AND REINSTALL

 

DCBarnard

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2015
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
TDI
2014 Golf 6 speed manual
Yes they repaired it free of charge. I do not know when the letters went out but the failure was on July 18, 2015. I picked the car back up on Aug 3.
 

dan30thz28

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Location
Cream Ridge, NJ
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed Manual 2013 VW Sportwagen TDI 6-Speed Manual
Hello,
Thanks! So my hope is that they will still do goodwill on the 2013's as well, since they weren't part of the warranty investigation. Thanks for the information!

Sincerely,
 

turtleboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Location
Palm Springs, CA
TDI
2013 Golf 4 door
hate to bring this back up, but possibly a poll with year and make? I have a 2013 Golf and I dont seem to have seen too many golfs with HPFP failure? I'm at 70k now and have not had any issues but just wondering if any other Golf owners on 2013+ have? Thanks!
 

Anonymous911

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Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Location
USA
TDI
'16 DBP GTI SE 6MT PP/LP
Thats my big concern. I'm playing by ear to see if more 2013 pop up with HPFP, i will bail out of the TDI and get into MK7 GTI, thats only if VW doesn't warrant the 2013 and ups.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Location
Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Thats my big concern. I'm playing by ear to see if more 2013 pop up with HPFP, i will bail out of the TDI and get into MK7 GTI, thats only if VW doesn't warrant the 2013 and ups.
VW aint no dummy, you'll dump your TDI and buy another VW. Them bean counters are smart, ;)
 

mr_y82

Veteran Member
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May 19, 2013
Location
Western NC
TDI
Used to have... '11 Golf, 6-spd, 2-door
^hehe... don't blame anyone for wanting another VW, but it does kinda let VW off the hook, yes? "My TDI blew up... I'll show VW, I'll get myself a GTI! Suckers!"... Win/Win for VW...:eek:
 

Anonymous911

Veteran Member
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Location
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'16 DBP GTI SE 6MT PP/LP
^hehe... don't blame anyone for wanting another VW, but it does kinda let VW off the hook, yes? "My TDI blew up... I'll show VW, I'll get myself a GTI! Suckers!"... Win/Win for VW...:eek:

Hey,

There's no other better car than GTI/Golf TDI. Not a big fan of Subaru at all. So thats why I want to keep getting car with manual.
 

mr_y82

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2013
Location
Western NC
TDI
Used to have... '11 Golf, 6-spd, 2-door
^pretty much spot on...don't blame you a bit! I'd support the b--t--ds again too...:eek: though I'd give a diesel Mazda 3 a whirl if they decide to bring it stateside... Doubt it would convert me though (I like my mx-5), :p
 

PlaneCrazy

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Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Hey,
There's no other better car than GTI/Golf TDI. Not a big fan of Subaru at all. So thats why I want to keep getting car with manual.
Haha, I hear ya! That's why I'm:

-Dumping the troublesome TDI from the fleet
-Replacing it with a Mk VII Golf TSI
-Keeping the reliable TDI ('13 Golf wagon)
-Keeping the old TDI ('05 Passat) until it blows up (probably the tranny will go first; it's my son's car now though still in my wife's name on paper)

I don't think VW will shed too many a tear over me getting rid of the '11 Golf. Though there's a small chance we may keep it and ship it to our secondary home on the West Coast so we don't have to rent or borrow a car when we go there. Eventually we plan to live there at least 3 months a year in which case we'll definitely need a car, but not sure if it will be the '11 or wait 'till my soon-to-arrive '16 is a few years old.

For my money, the Golf is the best "all-around" car. Compact, practical, fuel efficient (even in gasser form now), great handling. Unless you've got 3 or more kids or something, or a big honkin' trailer to tow, it's all one needs.

I'm also a stick fan. If our Passat wasn't so near end of life I'd put a stick conversion in it too.
 

MRO1791

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Location
Western Washington
TDI
2015 Cruze TD (x2), 2009 Dodge Cummins
VW Customer Care is a complete Joke

So, my 2012 Jetta TDI is now just out of Warranty, except the 10yr/120K coverage on the known poorly designed HPFP. I do a fuel filter change early 15K from the last dealer change... and I find metal particles of course!

Knowing this is an issue, and the extended warranty, I assume the path is document my findings, high resolution digital pictures, printed for the dealer, and a pristine white rag turned grey with metal filings, and the old filter delivered for their inspection (I even provided the VCDS diagnostic print out). THEY still want a $110 diagnostic fee, I object as this SHOULD be a warranty item.

So assuming it is OBVIOUS that metal in the fuel system is NOT normal, and it has to be a HPFP in early stages of eventual failure, and it being GOOD for VW to get it BEFORE catastrophic failure and a roadside disabled car with extensive fuel system contamination.. I assume it will get replaced under warranty, as I have under 45K miles.

NOPE, it seems the Dealer did try to get VW to agree to replace the HPFP pump, but they denied the authorization for the dealer to do this work. Since I did the filter change, amazingly about 100 miles and one day later, there is no MORE evidence of metal particles.. OBVIOUSLY. The service writer I do think really tried, but gave me VW Customer care.. so I called and VENTED.

They are officially useless. I explained the situation and was basically told, the customer is not to be trusted, because I did the filter change and cleaned up the metal particles, the dealer could not find any more, and thus they could not replace the pump.... So officially it is VW policy to ignore the metal filings, even try some BS that the could come from fill ups, or other contamination (BS, I have a Diesel truck, fueled at same stations, even more varied, with longer service time, MORE fuel, and even a late filter change on it, NO METAL particles at nearly 30K miles. METAL IS NOT NORMAL, some sediment is, and I did see that in the truck, but no METAL flakes.

This will almost certainly be my LAST VW vehicle I ever buy new, this is absurd, but to be fair I had a GM Truck Lemon, and a Dodge Truck Lemon, so I guess I have all kinds of luck with vehicles, perhaps why I have little patience left on these kind of things.
:mad:
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Customer done maintenance is problematic in situations like this. You should have stopped immediately and put everything back the way it was. Then take it to the dealer requesting a FF change and ask to see the filter and have them check for metal due to HPFP issues in the NHTSA investigation and extended warranty documents. If they find it, it is hard to refute. When you do, it is easier to just blow you off.
 
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