NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
You are correct, I have very little faith in VW or others these days. It seems to be the norm to screw over car owners, I guess they figure we have no other choices! The way VW handled this whole HFPF thing is pretty sad and the new letter just pours salt on an already sore wound, IMHO. We buy diesels to go the distance, the CR's just aren't. You pay a premium for the CR and for that "bonus" and you are getting cheated.

You get an HPFP replacement but nothing else so says the rumour and that's also the way the letter reads, and before, they were doing goodwill for whole shebang. Now, even if you're one mile or one day over, you will get shown the door.
Boy, what a grand way to alienate VW loyals and send them to BMW or MBZ, albeit for maybe a CPO or used, as opposed to brand new.
Question: is MBZ or BMW having similar problems in their diesel fuel systems???
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
san antonio & austin
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
...
Question: is MBZ or BMW having similar problems in their diesel fuel systems???
None to speak of. I'm a regular on the bimmerfest diesel forums and know of one that was reported from Denmark. No follow up from that poster, though.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Boy, what a grand way to alienate VW loyals and send them to BMW or MBZ, albeit for maybe a CPO or used, as opposed to brand new.
Question: is MBZ or BMW having similar problems in their diesel fuel systems???
Sorry the truth hurts. VW is screwing their customers without lube. Another failure today, not covered so he either bucks up $7 grand or gives the car away. Yep, I am sure he will buy another VW real soon. :rolleyes:
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
You are correct, I have very little faith in VW or others these days. It seems to be the norm to screw over car owners, I guess they figure we have no other choices! The way VW handled this whole HFPF thing is pretty sad and the new letter just pours salt on an already sore wound, IMHO. We buy diesels to go the distance, the CR's just aren't. You pay a premium for the CR and for that "bonus" and you are getting cheated.

You get an HPFP replacement but nothing else so says the rumour and that's also the way the letter reads, and before, they were doing goodwill for whole shebang. Now, even if you're one mile or one day over, you will get shown the door.
Can you give me an example from another manufacturer that initially covered all repairs on their dime? How many other companies offer longer than ten year, 120,000 mile warranties on their parts?
 

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
Can you give me an example from another manufacturer that initially covered all repairs on their dime? How many other companies offer longer than ten year, 120,000 mile warranties on their parts?
Umm, that's really not the point now is it?!?
Rather, this would be filed under the heading "true good faith from a company b/c of faulty design of critical component" or similar.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Boy, what a grand way to alienate VW loyals and send them to BMW or MBZ, albeit for maybe a CPO or used, as opposed to brand new.
Question: is MBZ or BMW having similar problems in their diesel fuel systems???
Even a CPO used Benz or Bimmer is out of my price range.

What will instead happen is that VW will send us to a GASSER as our next car.

And not necessarily a VW gasser either. Lots of affordable choices out there. Rumour has it a new Civic is just round the corner and it may be much tastier than the current version. I'm still keen on sticking with a Golf but VW sure doesn't make easy being a loyalist these days.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Can you give me an example from another manufacturer that initially covered all repairs on their dime? How many other companies offer longer than ten year, 120,000 mile warranties on their parts?
Already did earlier, GM did with its 6.5 diesel injection pump, but that's not the point. Its a known failure item, wether its 1% or 50%, the fact is, IT WILL FAIL, leaving the customer with a $5-$7000 repair bill unless you do it yourself. Hell of a deal when you paid a premium price for an engine setup that should go at least 300,000 miles without a major failure. Its your money, you spend it how you choose, I know how I am spending mine and it won't be a CR VW and I will tell anyone I know to not buy one either and probably a VW too, based on the way they've handled this and the cross border warranty BS.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
How many miles were on yours when it failed?
Don't have one and never will. Just go thru this thread, all the info you need. Some have 25,000 miles, some 150,000 miles, not many are high mileage units. You can keep drinking the kool-aid if you want, won't matter to me, I'll just warn everyone and funny we are talking about this, a thread popped up about buying a CR, no one mentioned the HPFP except me, guess what died on the road test, :eek: but its ok, they are great fuel pumps, :p
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
Already did earlier, GM did with its 6.5 diesel injection pump, but that's not the point. Its a known failure item, wether its 1% or 50%, the fact is, IT WILL FAIL, leaving the customer with a $5-$7000 repair bill unless you do it yourself. Hell of a deal when you paid a premium price for an engine setup that should go at least 300,000 miles without a major failure. Its your money, you spend it how you choose, I know how I am spending mine and it won't be a CR VW and I will tell anyone I know to not buy one either and probably a VW too, based on the way they've handled this and the cross border warranty BS.
All mechanical parts fail eventually, don't they?And how did you decide that a diesel engine should last at least 300,000 miles? For the average driver, that is 25 years of ownership. I haven't ever kept any car longer than 8 years.
 

nate0031

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
May 14, 2012
Location
SE Ohio
TDI
96 B4 Passat
You can keep drinking the kool-aid if you want, won't matter to me...
Wait, there's Cool-Aid? What Cool-Aid? Damn, nobody told me.

...but its ok, they are great fuel pumps, :p
Hahaha. Don't think I've ever heard anyone call it that. Not sure where that comes from.

No one said they didn't have problems. I just find it amusing that you're always in these threads $!#@%ing and moaning about an engine you haven't, and will never own. You aren't the only one by any means, just the one i happen across the most, lol. You're more pissed off about this whole thing than most of the people that actually own these things.

Do you actually have any experience with these motors? Or just know what you've read online?

I know of three CR TDI's personally, including mine. One's my neighbors NMS Passat, don't know how many miles. At least two years old and they love it. Mines now approaching 60k, was at 55k when swapped. Been amazing so far. My good friends 2010 DSG is at 210k, all original fuel system, transmission etc. Mine has lots of filtration and the 2micron kit just to play it safe. If it ever goes, it'll be contained and I'll put a cp3 on and be done.

I understand VW used a crappy pump and has screwed some people, and will screw some more. Luckily aftermarket is providing a reasonable way to negate this for enthusiasts. I just get a kick when these threads have people that've never even owned the engine in question all like, IT'S A FAILURE ITEM! IT WILL FAIL! YOU'LL BE ON A 10,000 MILE ROADTRIP FROM HOME AND 2,000 MILES FROM ANY CIVILIZATION! THE SUN WILL GO DARK AS VW'S BOARD CHUCKLES MANIACALLY IN THERE CHAMBERS!

I'm just surprised how angry you are at a problem that doesn't effect you, and that these threads continue even though nothing new is learned. Carry on. Flame suit is on, have at me. Hopefully it's apparent most of this post is in jest. Just so much doom and gloom around here.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Your right, it doesn't affect me but it affect people and it hits them hard in the pocketbok now VW has written it off. Sorry for caring. So you know 3 people that haven't had problems, wow, call the cops, :p I will warn anyone and everyone about the problem and us Canadian's don't even get a reach around, ;)

True, nothing lasts forever but considering ALH's and other diesels routinely go 300,000 miles without a $7000 failure, makes you go hmmmm, or if not, it should. :p
 

amy1000

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Location
Doylestown PA
TDI
2010 jetta
late to the discussion had failure in 2012 and had to fight tooth and nail to get VofA to fix it ...three failures until they agreed to replace entire fuel system and tank. then I get the letter that they will cover up to 120000. I am at 117000 miles now. I took my car in for service and asked...will I still be covered on the replace fuel system....he shrug and gave me the impression that it would. lol righttttt.
 

amy1000

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Location
Doylestown PA
TDI
2010 jetta
Anyone good at writing form letters? Maybe us Canadians should write to VW corporate Canada and voice our displeasure?
go on social media like a mad man...on their site and other vw sites. that's what I did. just copy and post your story over and over again. someone will get back to you. I finally got action.
 

Smokin_Joe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Location
Surrey BC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
go on social media like a mad man...on their site and other vw sites. that's what I did. just copy and post your story over and over again. someone will get back to you. I finally got action.
You mean they didn't hire someone full time to delete all your posts:D
 

amy1000

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Location
Doylestown PA
TDI
2010 jetta
You mean they didn't hire someone full time to delete all your posts:D
I am not sure if the social media campaign encouraged them to have a VP of sorts call me...or if it was my last phone conversation with the VofA rep that I spoke with about getting an extended warranty on the finally replace entire fuel system that I fought so hard for...then them denying me...and I finally said... you know what? F U. I got a call the next day
 

Smokin_Joe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Location
Surrey BC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
I am not sure if the social media campaign encouraged them to have a VP of sorts call me...or if it was my last phone conversation with the VofA rep that I spoke with about getting an extended warranty on the finally replace entire fuel system that I fought so hard for...then them denying me...and I finally said... you know what? F U. I got a call the next day
I got the initial denial from the dealer and accused of misfueling. VW of Canada customer service reps were confrontational and suggested I get lawyer and when I suggested they might be right they used it as an opportunity to hang up.
I just gathered evidence of all the faults, rusted rods in lift pump, fuel samples of all my sources of fuel and pointed out that the moisture in the tank comes from the air.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=410742
My win was talking to the District Representative in a calm measured manner pointing out the issues the US were having and that the Canadian Department of transport was interested.
They agreed to repair it for research purposes and took all my evidence.
Our car had technically not suffered an HPFP failure the first time. It had started to make noise due to the filter being plugged with rust.

Bare minimum repair followed by a complete fuel system replacement and cleaning of the tank when it failed 3 months later.

This time it was full coverage no problems no accusations... courteous car...Royal top notch treatment.

Like I said I am not mad at them at the moment...lol
 

Smokin_Joe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Location
Surrey BC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
......

Do you actually have any experience with these motors? Or just know what you've read online?
He is a licensed mechanic and works on all makes...I have seen his shop.
He is a soft spoken guy that is passionate about things...
....
I understand VW used a crappy pump and has screwed some people, and will screw some more. Luckily aftermarket is providing a reasonable way to negate this for enthusiasts. I just get a kick when these threads have people that've never even owned the engine in question all like, IT'S A FAILURE ITEM! IT WILL FAIL! YOU'LL BE ON A 10,000 MILE ROADTRIP FROM HOME AND 2,000 MILES FROM ANY CIVILIZATION! THE SUN WILL GO DARK AS VW'S BOARD CHUCKLES MANIACALLY IN THERE CHAMBERS!

I'm just surprised how angry you are at a problem that doesn't effect you, and that these threads continue even though nothing new is learned. Carry on. Flame suit is on, have at me. Hopefully it's apparent most of this post is in jest. Just so much doom and gloom around here.
He is Canadian we get like that..... we don't like to stand by idly and watch people get screwed.
It is one of the good traits that we are trying to share with others.
Have a better day Nate!
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
I notice that the failures seem to be regional in their rate of failure. As for the few that did crap the bed, 99% admitted to filling up with gas and driving the car. Though we did have one custom in Florida that admitted to filling with gas a few times and it still ran.

And for every failure I see at least 10 more that are over 100k failure free. Several with over 200k (one 434k). And I have replaced more ALH pumps than CR pumps.

As for the repair bill - about $4000 for CR, about $2300 for ALH. Main difference is you are basically still going to dealer for CR, but there are A/M options for ALH.

It's mechanical, designed and built by fallible humans, and a vast majority are lasting a very long time. The main concern is the cost of the repair if it does fail. For all the things I see go wrong with cars these days I'll take that bet and enjoy all the good things about my car.

Jason


Sent from my iPhone
 

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
Wait, there's Cool-Aid? What Cool-Aid? Damn, nobody told me.



Hahaha. Don't think I've ever heard anyone call it that. Not sure where that comes from.

No one said they didn't have problems. I just find it amusing that you're always in these threads $!#@%ing and moaning about an engine you haven't, and will never own. You aren't the only one by any means, just the one i happen across the most, lol. You're more pissed off about this whole thing than most of the people that actually own these things.

Do you actually have any experience with these motors? Or just know what you've read online?

I know of three CR TDI's personally, including mine. One's my neighbors NMS Passat, don't know how many miles. At least two years old and they love it. Mines now approaching 60k, was at 55k when swapped. Been amazing so far. My good friends 2010 DSG is at 210k, all original fuel system, transmission etc. Mine has lots of filtration and the 2micron kit just to play it safe. If it ever goes, it'll be contained and I'll put a cp3 on and be done.

I understand VW used a crappy pump and has screwed some people, and will screw some more. Luckily aftermarket is providing a reasonable way to negate this for enthusiasts. I just get a kick when these threads have people that've never even owned the engine in question all like, IT'S A FAILURE ITEM! IT WILL FAIL! YOU'LL BE ON A 10,000 MILE ROADTRIP FROM HOME AND 2,000 MILES FROM ANY CIVILIZATION! THE SUN WILL GO DARK AS VW'S BOARD CHUCKLES MANIACALLY IN THERE CHAMBERS!

I'm just surprised how angry you are at a problem that doesn't effect you, and that these threads continue even though nothing new is learned. Carry on. Flame suit is on, have at me. Hopefully it's apparent most of this post is in jest. Just so much doom and gloom around here.
Care to share (God I hate that word. Tried looking for the "strike through" icon above but alas couldn't find one).
Care to TELL EVERYBODY what these "lots of filtration" and "2 micron kits" are about.
But more importantly, why one should have to go to an extra expense on an already expensive car to begin with, that has a fuel system designed by engineers that get paid a pretty penny?? (That's a rhetorical ? just in case you don't get it!).
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
has anyone ever stopped to think about the decrease in faliure rate (2013-14 and up in service dates), might be due to a diect correlation in the INCREASE of lubricity in the past 24-36 months of US diesel?

Id like to see a map of failures, with pinpoints. I wonder if they are region heavy. Cross-reference this data wih the latest fuel study (referenced on this forum) and year of in service date, vs failure.

I bet you'll find more patterns, and less conspiracy theories.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Boy, what a grand way to alienate VW loyals and send them to BMW or MBZ, albeit for maybe a CPO or used, as opposed to brand new.
Question: is MBZ or BMW having similar problems in their diesel fuel systems???

Go look up the HPFP on the gas 335i.

Facts - my gas 335i blew 2 HPFP by 35K. Got rid of it at 37K miles for a TDI wagon.

Drove TDI wagion for 117K miles. No HPFP failure.

The HPFP failure rate on the N54 BMW engine is far, far higher than the HPFP failure rate on the CR 2.0 TDI. Facts.
 

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
has anyone ever stopped to think about the decrease in faliure rate (2013-14 and up in service dates), might be due to a diect correlation in the INCREASE of lubricity in the past 24-36 months of US diesel?

Id like to see a map of failures, with pinpoints. I wonder if they are region heavy. Cross-reference this data wih the latest fuel study (referenced on this forum) and year of in service date, vs failure.

I bet you'll find more patterns, and less conspiracy theories.
Could be on to something there Bor...that would be interesting.
Just don't have the "Gubbermunt" do the stats; they'd screw it up like everything else they touch. J/K.
 

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
Ah, well what can you do?!?

At least now you provided a complete article for those that do not understand!

And the edu-ma-cation of the masses moves onward and upward, thanks to the likes of Lightflyer1!!

Hey did you get the alliteration I used there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration

Just trying to continue the improvement of public service that you started above. :rolleyes:
 

Smokin_Joe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Location
Surrey BC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
Not to Hyjack your fun...guys but have you seen the latest victim

......
Year: 2010
Build Date: At dealer, not sure, late in the year
Make/Model: Jetta TDI Sportwagon
Tranny: DSG, 6M ?
Mileage: (actual miles at time of problem or when problem began) 129,000
Diesel Fuel Source: (Shell, Exxon, etc.) Varies
Additives: (Yes/No) No
Problem: (HPFP failed, fuel canister rusted, etc. Give as much factual data as you can.)
HPFP failed at high speed, no power while on freeway. 16 year old driving, glow plug light came in right before, she felt like it was driving tough, would not accelerate
Dealer: (ex. SmokeAndMirrors VW or VW of Fallacy Idaho)
VW Boardwalk, redwood city, ca
Status: (still pending, dealer fixed everything, resolved, dealer refused, paid out of pocket)
Dealer asking VW to repair. VW of America position is to ONLY repair if the failure occurs before 120,000 miles or 10 years. I need some advice here. Still at the dealer, at least $4,000 repair. VW saying it won't budge at all on paying for this known issue due to mileage at the time of failure. I need advice here. Any ideas?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4846407#post4846407

He is askin for helpful input...any helpful bright ideas?
 
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