NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

Wesleybyars

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Sep 27, 2012
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Wagener, SC
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2009 Jetta TDI
Relief

We are so relieved. Now, when they fix it, how long should I wait before trading it in on a gasoline? May try a Camry. My wife literally cried today when the service manager at Gerald jones vw of Augusta gave us the engineers verdict to repair free of cost. He's giving her a loaner and she wants to buy a gasoline Jetta. Any advice?
 

RabbitGTI

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Wisconsin
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B4 Passat Sedan
We are so relieved. Now, when they fix it, how long should I wait before trading it in on a gasoline? May try a Camry. My wife literally cried today when the service manager at Gerald jones vw of Augusta gave us the engineers verdict to repair free of cost. He's giving her a loaner and she wants to buy a gasoline Jetta. Any advice?
Yes, buy the 2.0 bottom feeder Jetta. Absolutely bulletproof car. Safe as a tank and will last forever.
 

LRTDI

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Your dealership has plenty of Jetta Sedans with the 2.slow in stock at this time.
Talk to the sales dept.
 

bhtooefr

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No, the 2.0. (The Golf and wagon get the 2.5 as the base, but the sedan has a 2.0 below the 2.5.)

It's the same basic engine as a Mk4 2.sl0 (and that's basically a repackaged version of the old 8v engine, which dates back to 1974, and is legendary for taking outright abuse in stride), and the same basic transmission mechanically as the 02A/02J.
 

Jasper J

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Draper, UT
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Your dealership has plenty of Jetta Sedans with the 2.slow in stock at this time.
Talk to the sales dept.
I didn't want to believe this, I thought the 2.0 was just a "get them in the door, oh! we only have one of those, you don't want one anyway" offering, but after a quick check at my local dealer, sure enough there are 10 of them, prolly one in every color. :D You can get a nice 5-speed manual with A/C power windows and locks, RCD 310 for under $17,000...

Sorry about the thread deviation... so when is the NHTSA going to do something? :confused: :p
 
Last edited:

pinkertonfloyd

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This is a question we would all like to know the answer to. In short, nobody knows. I'm not even certain that the NHTSA knows the answer to this.

Have Fun!

Don
Especially when VW has milked about an extra year on the "deadline" for documents.... while Ford, GM, MZB, and BMW didn't have too much problem.
 

chudzikb

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Ford, GM, MZB, and BMW were not the subject of the investigation and would not have to pony up lots of $$$$ to recall the pumps that are in service. Thus, they responded promptly. You may draw your own conclusions on why VW delayed. But, I suspect it has a lot to do with $$$.
 

VWJim

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Location
Santa Teresa, NM
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2011 Jetta
2011 Jetta TDI HPFP Failure

My HPFP was just replaced under VW's powertrain warranty at 42k miles. At about 39,600 miles I got the flashing glow plug indicator and lost power. Was about 300 miles away from the nearest VW dealership, so just pulled over and shut it down. After a while re-started and the flashing glow plug symbol was off, but the check engine light was on - no more loss of power. Called VW and they said I would be OK driving to the nearest dealership as long as the power maintained at normal.
Rolled into the dealership with exactly 40,000 miles and asked them to do the 40k check as well as check out the issue First visit they were not able to replicate the problem. So off I went for about 1,200 more miles when the problem reoccured - fortunately this time about 4 miles away from the dealership. Drove over immediately over and did not stop the vehicle so they could witness first-hand the flashing glow plug light.
They had the car for four days, rented me a loaner, and replaced the HPFP at no cost to me at 42,000 miles. The car NEVER had gasoline put into it, and I always fill up at stations that turn their diesel over quickly.
 

darrelld

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On monday, 9/24/12 while driving my 2009 Jetta TDI, the car began to feel sluggish, glo plug began to flash, panel flashed a warning "engine failure, Workshop!" and the car lost all power. Read in the manual to try to drive to service, car would not crank. Assumed something mechanical, so I called my dealership and asked who should tow to them. Wrecker sent, car towed, hoped for a simple fix. Tuesday afternoon, service manager calls and says I have encountered some "bad fuel" and I need to trace where I bought it. I knew right away where and when I purchased, as I always use the same pump at the same station for my fueling. I went to try to get a printed receipt, because unfortunately I depend on the internet to track everything (will never happen again) and was told that I would have to get one from my credit card company. Called the home office of the gas station to discuss possible contamination, given a voicemail. Dealer says 3rd party extended warranty was coming out to inspect the vehicle on wednesday. As you can imagine, warranty company denies claiming they found unleaded gasoline in the car (although service techs inital report refutes this) and we get a report to this effect. We ask for a sample of fuel to test, it appears to have something besides diesel in the bottle but upon discussion with the tech present when we arrived, there was no way unleaded was put in the gas tank and the car driven 450.5 miles. He said and others in the same facility agreed that the car would have quit a mile down the road. Began to research and found this forum and we are quiite frankly disgusted by VW and NHSTA for agreeing that any of this could be human error. IF the pump can't function with the diesel fuel sold in the area, then they should recall the vehicle. Who would know to search for fuel somewhere else? We are experienced diesel fuel users, from tractors to cars and trucks, and it is not acceptable to place this blame on us and sweep under the rug. Dealership is trying to help, claiming that the car had a different pump, we need to go to the gas company, blah blah blah. Look, they know about the issue, know about the product. Just fix the problem and move on. What normal family has $8000 lying around just to give VW to fix an issue that they should have put right from the start? Please advise, we are filing a complaint with NHTSA, but not convinced this will be made right.
Check your pump tag and let us know if its Czech made.
 

LRTDI

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RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
Check your pump tag and let us know if its Czech made.
A few posts ago, Wesleybars got VW to step up to the plate and replace the fuel system. He is now thinking about flipping to a gasser VW. Who can blame him or his wife.
 

darrelld

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A few posts ago, Wesleybars got VW to step up to the plate and replace the fuel system. He is now thinking about flipping to a gasser VW. Who can blame him or his wife.
I wouldn't, too many items out of the owners control to feel any confidence. If you happen to get bad fuel then its your fault and you have to try to collect damages from the station operators/owners.

NHTSA/VW are stalling the release of documents that reveal the true story or they will be so redacted that owners will still be left in the dark.

Toyota took a similar tract and the results were big losses in market share and rebuilding of reputation that still hasn't recovered.
 

pleopard

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Calgary, Alberta
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Has anyone out of warranty been completely left in the dark by VW, forced to attempt to cover the fuel system replacement out pocket? - perhaps someone with payments left to make on the car. I'll be financing my 2010 for quite some time to come and if I'm left to try to fix an $8000 problem, I'll be in big trouble.

At the very least I'd like to see some action on VWs part with these documents! The NHTSA should be holding them accountable, period. Clearly a safety issue was identified, otherwise this wouldn't be on NHTSA's radar. So, if this is a safety issue, why do we need an injury or death to get any action? They should be proactive, not reactive after the fact! Fixing fuel systems out of warranty is fine, but how does that address a safety concern? It doesn't. VW and the NHTSA need to finish their work!
 

bhtooefr

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The problem is, I think the NHTSA won't want to act without VW unless an obvious injury or death occurs, because it's just a stalling issue, and it's one that would have considerable cost and may not even be fixable while maintaining EPA compliance (read: VW would have to buy back all of these cars).
 

kjclow

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I agree with bhtooefr. There is no compelling reason to foce VW to issue a recall. So far they have been covering the occasional failure and may continue to do so, at their choice. There are reports of the hpfp failing while in traffic but, from what I remember as being posted on here, these failures have not caused even a minor accident. You can't post a fatility number. You can't show the cars buring down to the frame on the evening news, like Jeeps. All you can show is a receipt from the VW dealer listing what was repaired. Not news worthy enough to force a recall.
 

turbocharged798

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Honestly I have no worries what happens during warranty as VW has been good about covering them. Its when these cars start to go over 150K+mi is where many are worried about. Just look at the B5.5 and the stupid balance shaft chain. The car's market value is way down as many just dump them because they won't want to spend $2500+ to upgrade the BSM. At least that has a FIX. The HPFP failure still has no fix in sight is that is the most worry-sum aspect.

I am afraid this is going to go the same way and ultimately results in gurus and enthusiasts mopping up the mess VW left behind.
 

bhtooefr

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And that's why I want to see the Cruze diesel come in.

Not because I want one - oh no, it'll be a festering pile of crap, and many of the TDI owners that get one will come running back to VW - but because I want to see competition for VW in the diesel market, it might make them actually give a crap.
 

LRTDI

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RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
I recall there were early examples of owners being left paying the repairs but have to believe that VW quietly came around and reimbursed these owners. We just never got to hear from those owners again.
This entire episode has probably gotten most companies wary of introducing diesels to the light vehicle market.
 

kjclow

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Bring the diesel Cruze, Caddy, Dart... If GM or Dodge thought they had a better pump/engine combination for the US market, then they would be all over advertising of a "superior" engine. That in and of itself should be enough to wake VW up and make them find and offer a solution. Without competition, no one is compelled to do anything above the bare minimum.
 

darrelld

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I agree with bhtooefr. There is no compelling reason to foce VW to issue a recall. So far they have been covering the occasional failure and may continue to do so, at their choice. There are reports of the hpfp failing while in traffic but, from what I remember as being posted on here, these failures have not caused even a minor accident. You can't post a fatility number. You can't show the cars buring down to the frame on the evening news, like Jeeps. All you can show is a receipt from the VW dealer listing what was repaired. Not news worthy enough to force a recall.
I would think customer retention would motivate them. Right now there is nothing to insure that a repair will be fixed even under warranty if the fuel is bad.

The design might meet in spec fuel but as others have said that isn't the reality "on the ground".

The current design seems to just hover above the failure threshold with any fuel contamination pushing it over into the failure zone. Subsequent designs move the threshold upwards a few ticks but still some fall outside that failure boundary.

I am new to the brand but have already started looking elsewhere for my next vehicle. That should motivate VW to do more.
 

bhtooefr

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The problem is, they know that they have a lot of the diesel car market captive.

There's tons of people on this forum that are buying Jettas and Passats, but want Cruzes and Mazda6 diesels, but can't get them. Those buyers probably won't buy Priuses for whatever reason, either.
 

darrelld

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The problem is, they know that they have a lot of the diesel car market captive.

There's tons of people on this forum that are buying Jettas and Passats, but want Cruzes and Mazda6 diesels, but can't get them. Those buyers probably won't buy Priuses for whatever reason, either.
Not a diesel but I am looking at the new C-Max or Fusion hybrid to replace my Jetta TDI. Already found another Golf TDI owner who switched to the C-Max is very pleased.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Not a diesel but I am looking at the new C-Max or Fusion hybrid to replace my Jetta TDI. Already found another Golf TDI owner who switched to the C-Max is very pleased.
I'm thinking along the same lines. Do you know what the C-Max owner is getting on mpg? I read somewhwere that on a few hundred mile test, the mileage was mid-thirties (not too good IMO) which was like 5 mpg below the Prius V test (I will not buy a Prius:D).
 

bhtooefr

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Keep in mind that the C-Max is a TALL vehicle.

More frontal area == more drag.

More drag == worse fuel economy.
 

darrelld

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I'm thinking along the same lines. Do you know what the C-Max owner is getting on mpg? I read somewhwere that on a few hundred mile test, the mileage was mid-thirties (not too good IMO) which was like 5 mpg below the Prius V test (I will not buy a Prius:D).
Here is the post from the former Golf TDI owner;

He says he averaged 42.2 on a recent
400 mile road trip through the mountains.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/inde...g-my-new-c-max-hybrid/page__pid__524#entry524
 
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