Newbies and Vets: Tips for better fuel economy!

[ruking]

Even with all the pot holes we have on our roads?

Yes, but truly I would not go gunning for them. I even try to avoid them with 10.5 in road clearance Toyota Landcruiser's

I also run 85% of max tire wall pressure (44/51, or 38/44 psi) The last alignment I had ( when TSI was across from your site, they do alignments and are now in Berkelely, kudo's to you for organizing and hosting MANY GTG's !!! ) indicated that I really didn't need an alignment @ 100,000 miles. I am @ 153,000 miles and the new (40,700 miles) tires evidence no tire abnormalities and seem to be on another 120,000 miles pace.

 

[Tom Servo]

Arguably you are not loosing any MPG depending on your driving habits. Might even gain some by driving a TDI vs a Prius.

Two main things that auger in your favor. Probably first and foremost is the VW (TDI) is really designed for the autobahn. Prius while it can probably handle the autobahnn, is NOT. Second, the Prius/TDI is a apples to oranges, strawman comparison. When you consider the power specifications a more even one is the Camry Hybrid/ VW TDI comparison. In most every measure in that comparison, the VW TDI Jetta wins over the Camry/Hybrid. Lower priced, better mpg, better adaptation to the American system of roads.

I met a nice fellow a while back when I lived in rural flat Mississippi, and he had a Prius that got slightly poorer mileage than the TDI. Rural Mississippi is, of course, all open roads and the Delta is flat as a box top, so there was no start-n-go or city crawling to be done. The open highway (even if it is just 55-60 mph) really shows the TDI's strength. I was jealous of his back seat. Of his car, I mean! LOL. Noticeably roomier than the back of my Golf. Trunk seemed bigger, too. But the anemic performance was a real turn off.

I was worried when I moved back to coastal Alabama that the mileage would suffer because there are no real highways here and traffic is a headache even during snowbird season, but so far, so good. It's holding right where it always has.

 

[ruking]

I met a nice fellow a while back when I lived in rural flat Mississippi, and he had a Prius that got slightly poorer mileage than the TDI. Rural Mississippi is, of course, all open roads and the Delta is flat as a box top, so there was no start-n-go or city crawling to be done. The open highway (even if it is just 55-60 mph) really shows the TDI's strength. I was jealous of his back seat. Of his car, I mean! LOL. Noticeably roomier than the back of my Golf. Trunk seemed bigger, too. But the anemic performance was a real turn off.

I was worried when I moved back to coastal Alabama that the mileage would suffer because there are no real highways here and traffic is a headache even during snowbird season, but so far, so good. It's holding right where it always has.

I should be way over it after 173,000 miles in 2 TDI's, but it is still amazing from a subliminal perspective, how much RANGE (mpg) the TDI's have without really trying. When you do try, I am sure it is even more surprising. Now with a Prius to even get advertised (mpg), you really need to be mind full, aka raw egg between go pedal and right foot. Now if one enjoys that, I would say..... to each their own. On another level some folks just really enjoy the message that it might send or be intrepreted to send by driving a Prius. Again to each their own.

 

[brian1]

Down pipe

In the article you mentioned the down pipe Do you mean the Pcv system being replaced with a road draft tube. Do you ever block the EGR?

 

[charliekripple]

Potato-po tat to The TDI is a step back in mpg`s from the mid 80`s diesels

 

[ruking]

Potato-po tat to The TDI is a step back in mpg`s from the mid 80`s diesels

That is surely true mpg wise, and by regulation and design. It is easy to see from say mine 03 TDI to 09 TDI both EPA 42 C/49 H 46 combined, 29 C 40 H 36 combined and real world see signature. But under current guidance and rules and regulations, we did get app 52/55% greater hp torque, starting with the 09 TDI's.

If the US regulators were TRULY serious, they would either wave the fees or give tax credits to oems that bring over stuff like VW POLO that get what 68 mpg? Yet US SUV's and pick up trucks are doing robust sales in the year before the 2012 35 mpg standards !!! Of course no one acknowledges the irony and more likely disengenuousness of that.

 

[Richptl]

Passat or Jetta?

Hey all I read through all 35 pages of this thread about mileage tips. It is all about economy for me, and I drive most all highway miles here in upstate NY with route 86 posted at 65 mph. I set the cruise at 72 and my time is too valuable to go any slower. I drive a '99 Buick Century which gets me around 27 mpg avg. I figure if I drive 30,000 miles per year at $4 a gallon (will get there soon from what I hear), that is $4,444 on gas. Go to diesel at $4.25/gal and 40 mpg, changes to $3,187/year. I know several people with Prius's and they generally like them for around the town, but none of them drive the highway work miles that I do.

My cousin is a small shop car dealer and I want him to do a search for me. Looking for an 04 to 05 Passat or Jetta, maybe a wagon even. The Jetta 1.9L at 100 hp seems to fair better fuel economy, at least according to specs, than the Passat 2.0L 134 Hp. Would most agree? What about maintenance, longevity, resale value? Although with the resale issue, I will probably end up with a car with about 100,000 miles and drive it until it dies.

My wife has a massage business in our house off our garage, so I keep the garage heated to 50 deg F year round for that reason, so always a relatively warm start in the morning, diesel friendly.

From what I can gather, the stock air intake and stock exhaust on the TDI are pretty good, keep the EGR cooler and intake clean, oil changes, fuel filters, watch the mass air sensor (I have an Actron Scanner for my old gas cars, I can probably come up with baseline figures based on throttle position, rpm, and MAP). I see chip changes perhaps suggested but it seems like a lot of these chips are "snake oil" products. Would like to hear what brands of chips/tuning mods people are using. If I did this, I would have to see a payback of less than 3-4 years on fuel savings. So a $400 chip would have to save on the order of 3% on fuel. Realistic?

I figure if I can sell my car for $3 K, buy a used Jetta/Passat for around $10K, save $1,500 a year between fuel and repairs, it makes good economic sense. If I borrow $7,000 over 5 years I can trade up from a gas car with almost 200,000 miles (had a major engine repair recently, 3.1 L GM V6 notorious for intake manifold gasket failure) to a TDI at 100,000 miles, and the total operating cost savings (fuel/maintenance/repairs) might just wash out the car payment.

I care about green and the environment, but I am more focused on fuel economy. My Buick gets so-so mileage, there are lots of gas cars out there which would inch me up to 30-32 mpg, but then my fuel savings would not be there. I really want to get up to 40 mpg or better.

Hope to be a TDI owner soon. Maybe the $5 a gallon forecasters will be right, unless when fuel goes up we have another major recession. I hope not.

Thanks for any constructive info offered up.

 

[ruking]

Hey all I read through all 35 pages of this thread about mileage tips. It is all about economy for me, and I drive most all highway miles here in upstate NY with route 86 posted at 65 mph. I set the cruise at 72 and my time is too valuable to go any slower. I drive a '99 Buick Century which gets me around 27 mpg avg. I figure if I drive 30,000 miles per year at $4 a gallon (will get there soon from what I hear), that is $4,444 on gas. Go to diesel at $4.25/gal and 40 mpg, changes to $3,187/year. I know several people with Prius's and they generally like them for around the town, but none of them drive the highway work miles that I do.

My cousin is a small shop car dealer and I want him to do a search for me. Looking for an 04 to 05 Passat or Jetta, maybe a wagon even. The Jetta 1.9L at 100 hp seems to fair better fuel economy, at least according to specs, than the Passat 2.0L 134 Hp. Would most agree? What about maintenance, longevity, resale value? Although with the resale issue, I will probably end up with a car with about 100,000 miles and drive it until it dies.

My wife has a massage business in our house off our garage, so I keep the garage heated to 50 deg F year round for that reason, so always a relatively warm start in the morning, diesel friendly.

From what I can gather, the stock air intake and stock exhaust on the TDI are pretty good, keep the EGR cooler and intake clean, oil changes, fuel filters, watch the mass air sensor (I have an Actron Scanner for my old gas cars, I can probably come up with baseline figures based on throttle position, rpm, and MAP). I see chip changes perhaps suggested but it seems like a lot of these chips are "snake oil" products. Would like to hear what brands of chips/tuning mods people are using. If I did this, I would have to see a payback of less than 3-4 years on fuel savings. So a $400 chip would have to save on the order of 3% on fuel. Realistic?

I figure if I can sell my car for $3 K, buy a used Jetta/Passat for around $10K, save $1,500 a year between fuel and repairs, it makes good economic sense. If I borrow $7,000 over 5 years I can trade up from a gas car with almost 200,000 miles (had a major engine repair recently, 3.1 L GM V6 notorious for intake manifold gasket failure) to a TDI at 100,000 miles, and the total operating cost savings (fuel/maintenance/repairs) might just wash out the car payment.

I care about green and the environment, but I am more focused on fuel economy. My Buick gets so-so mileage, there are lots of gas cars out there which would inch me up to 30-32 mpg, but then my fuel savings would not be there. I really want to get up to 40 mpg or better.

Hope to be a TDI owner soon. Maybe the $5 a gallon forecasters will be right, unless when fuel goes up we have another major recession. I hope not.

Thanks for any constructive info offered up.

First of all a 113 miles (57 miles each way * 22 per mo*12 mo= per year ) daily commute that you can use CC seems like a luxury to almost amazing !!!! A 01 to 05 Jetta TDI with 5 speed manual transmission (I would swag) in CC, would easily best my 48-52 mpg (daily commute) posting. So if 27 mpg is what you get in those applications Buick gasser , then 30,000 miles would consume 1,111 gals, 625 gals (@48 mpg) respectively. Savings would be a minimum of (1,111-625)= 486 gals (44% gal savings) . Price per gal would of course fluctuate. (given the parameters from 3.31 per gal RUG, 3.59 D2 current, to 5 per gal example) The key structural metric is 27 mpg vs 48 mpg or 78% better mpg (d2). All things being equal (they never all) the decision is almost foregone.

 

[Richptl]

I can't afford a new car and I see a lot of scary things about buying a used '04 or '05 PD (cam stress driving the injectors, oil has to be kept perfect), even scarrier with the Passat 2.0 L and the chain driven balance shafts. Am I better off stepping back a year to an '03 Jetta with 1.9 L ALH and 5 speed manual, then maybe throw a few bucks ($800 or so) at a tuning kit and nozzle upgrade? That $800 would be the first few months worth of fuel savings. But if I can get the Hp/torque up to what the '04 to '05 PD levels would be, and better mileage, is that smarter?

 

[ruking]

I can't afford a new car and I see a lot of scary things about buying a used '04 or '05 PD (cam stress driving the injectors, oil has to be kept perfect), even scarrier with the Passat 2.0 L and the chain driven balance shafts. Am I better off stepping back a year to an '03 Jetta with 1.9 L ALH and 5 speed manual, then maybe throw a few bucks ($800 or so) at a tuning kit and nozzle upgrade? That $800 would be the first few months worth of fuel savings. But if I can get the Hp/torque up to what the '04 to '05 PD levels would be, and better mileage, is that smarter?

There really are any number of scenarios that can be played out. If you do like the 04-05 to .05.5, for any number of reasons, then the easiest way is to offer (whatever) prices -MINUS the cost of doing a camshaft R/R (@ the dealers) . Then of course settle on a "good one". If you bought correctly, below market -MINUS the cost of the R/R camshaft, then of course you will have those monies (in reserve/set aside) and go to the local guru for the job if it be needed .

The good/bad news is it (will have) has been almost a decade to 8 model years since VW came out with a so called good car (used like 03 TDI). Any questions, just keep firing away.

 

[Richptl]

I'm hearing that the risk of cam damage on the PD is much less if factory oil has been used at recommended intervals. If the owner can prove so, or if maybe I can get photos of the cam, might be advisable. Now as to the chain driven balance shafts, that seems to rule out the '04 and '05 Passats. Also hear that the '04 and newer automatics are better than '98 to '03. My wife cannot drive a standard, so if I search for an '03, sounds like less risk with the motor and more with the transmission.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

PD Cams are cheaper than transmissions so I'd recommned an 04 or early 05 Jetta or 04-06 Golf.

 

[Willfull04]

Two questions:

Rule #2: If you want to know your mileage, fill up completely to the top every time, this is after letting all the foam settle. Take miles driven and divide by x.xxx gallons (in the US) to get MPG. If you want to be very anal you must realize that if your wheels/tires are different than stock then your calculation can be off by 1-8%+. From the factory your speedo is off by ~3 MPH but your odometer is spot on. Remember that when putting on new tires, oversize tires will make your speedo more accurate, but your odometer will start to under report. My MK3 Jetta with 195/65/15 tires was perfect on the speedo, but the odometer was low by 6%.

i have an '04 Jetta (PD engine), 195/65/15 which i thought was stock. So i have what what you consider oversize but i am seeing the ~3mph high reeding on my speedo that you describe. But compared to my GPS, my trip meter is acurate. Is it safe to assume my odometer is accurate for MPG calcs?

It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Lubromoly Cetane booster or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. NOTE: If you have a 2009 Common rail diesel or later do not run additives in the tank! If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.

I live in an area where really my only options for Diesel are Tom Thumb (Citgo) and Walmart (Murphy USA). With out even asking i'm sure the cetanes are around the 42 minimum. Are you saying it is safe for me to add a cetane booster? If so - I used Diesel Kleen in my old 6.5TD, i'm sure that was ok for that engine but should i use a higher quality one for the PD?

Thanks
Will

 

[vwjettadsl]

I'm hearing that the risk of cam damage on the PD is much less if factory oil has been used at recommended intervals. If the owner can prove so, or if maybe I can get photos of the cam, might be advisable. Now as to the chain driven balance shafts, that seems to rule out the '04 and '05 Passats. Also hear that the '04 and newer automatics are better than '98 to '03. My wife cannot drive a standard, so if I search for an '03, sounds like less risk with the motor and more with the transmission.

Actually the risk of PD cam wear is much MORE if factory oil has been used. VW uses a Castrol 5w30 synthetic oil but it is too light a weight of oil IMO. Customers that use a good 5w40 synthetic oil, such as Schaeffer's, have had very, very good success with their cams lasting much longer than those using a 5w30 synthetic oil.

 

[vwjettadsl]

Two questions:


i have an '04 Jetta (PD engine), 195/65/15 which i thought was stock. So i have what what you consider oversize but i am seeing the ~3mph high reeding on my speedo that you describe. But compared to my GPS, my trip meter is acurate. Is it safe to assume my odometer is accurate for MPG calcs?

Yes, odometer is accurate for MPG.

I live in an area where really my only options for Diesel are Tom Thumb (Citgo) and Walmart (Murphy USA). With out even asking i'm sure the cetanes are around the 42 minimum. Are you saying it is safe for me to add a cetane booster? If so - I used Diesel Kleen in my old 6.5TD, i'm sure that was ok for that engine but should i use a higher quality one for the PD?

Thanks
Will

If you read this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2937973&postcount=427

It shows that Murphy USA/Walmart has a cetane rating of 45-50, but I would still use an additive. Diesel Kleen is good, but even just the regular Power Service is ok (white bottle). There are other brands that are higher quality, but Power Service is perfectly fine for use in a PD.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[ruking]

Actually the risk of PD cam wear is much MORE if factory oil has been used. VW uses a Castrol 5w40 synthetic oil but it is too light a weight of oil IMO. Customers that use a good 5w40 synthetic oil, such as Schaeffer's, have had very, very good success with their cams lasting much longer than those using a 5w30 synthetic oil.

I would also agree. Another oil that postes good results is the Mobil One 5w40 TDT. Here are two UOA's on a PD (R/R'd previously) http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=296388

 

[BleachedBora]

Ben,
You meant VW uses a 5W30 oil, not a 5W40. Thursday I had part of my 100 PD camshaft order arrive from Europe. We go through a lot of them around here; our experience is that the BEW cams are more robust than the BRMs. We have also found (as has Oilhammer who works on way more cars than most of us do!) that the Fully Synthetic Pentosin HP2 as well as the Lubromoly Diesel High Tech, both 505.01 and both 5W40 are the oils of choice for the PDs. He says that he's never had a PD owner come in for a camshaft that has run the HP2. I've heard similar things with the Lubromoly. This is why these two oils are the only two we recommend for a PD. Using a half bottle of ZDDP per oil change will really help keep the wear levels down too.

....Now excuse me while I go look at a PD for my wife to drive....

-BB

 

[ruking]

Ben,
You meant VW uses a 5W30 oil, not a 5W40. Thursday I had part of my 100 PD camshaft order arrive from Europe. We go through a lot of them around here; our experience is that the BEW cams are more robust than the BRMs. We have also found (as has Oilhammer who works on way more cars than most of us do!) that the Fully Synthetic Pentosin HP2 as well as the Lubromoly Diesel High Tech, both 505.01 and both 5W40 are the oils of choice for the PDs. He says that he's never had a PD owner come in for a camshaft that has run the HP2. I've heard similar things with the Lubromoly. This is why these two oils are the only two we recommend for a PD. Using a half bottle of ZDDP per oil change will really help keep the wear levels down too.

....Now excuse me while I go look at a PD for my wife to drive....

-BB

For sure it would be good to see 10,000 miles, 20,000 miles OCI's for both those oils.

 

[Tom Servo]

Interesting information on the oil and cams. I've got 250k on the original cam and I have always gone out of my way to get the Castrol TXT because I just feel like it "sounds" better versus the Pentosyn.

I've done a few o/c with Pentosyn and of course oilhammer's done a few for me over the years and I notice an immediate change in the engine sound. It's audibly more metallic and rough sounding versus the Castrol, especially 8-9k into the interval.

I know that sounds crazy (ha) but I seem to be a heck of a lot more perceptive than anyone else who rides in my car regularly. I hear creaks and rattles and pings and knocks and thumps and bumps that no one else notices.

 

[BleachedBora]

Just going off of experience here, and what OH and I have chatted about. That doesn't mean another oil will work, but as always your mileage will vary .

And BEW's do better on average then the BRM's do...

Oh, and we just bought the '05 BEW - it's just shy of 200k, we'll see how that cam looks shortly.
-BB

 

[vwjettadsl]

Ben,
You meant VW uses a 5W30 oil, not a 5W40.

Thanks Aaron, for catching the typo.

Interesting information on the oil and cams. I've got 250k on the original cam and I have always gone out of my way to get the Castrol TXT because I just feel like it "sounds" better versus the Pentosyn.

I've done a few o/c with Pentosyn and of course oilhammer's done a few for me over the years and I notice an immediate change in the engine sound. It's audibly more metallic and rough sounding versus the Castrol, especially 8-9k into the interval.

I know that sounds crazy (ha) but I seem to be a heck of a lot more perceptive than anyone else who rides in my car regularly. I hear creaks and rattles and pings and knocks and thumps and bumps that no one else notices.

Tom, I'm curious, when was last time you looked at your cam and inspected it for wear?


Also in an effort to keep things on the proper topic. I will say that in my 99.5 Jetta TDI, whenever I switched from using Rotella 5w40 synthetic oil to using Schaeffer's Supreme 9000 5w40 synthetic oil, my mileage improved. Mainly after the 5k mile mark, seems to me that the Rotella just didn't hold up as long. I always used a 6k-7k OCI with Rotella because of that factor, but with the Schaeffer's I use a 10k OCI. I'd say with the Schaeffer's I can get 1 MPG better than the other oils I've used.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[Tom Servo]

Thanks Aaron, for catching the typo.

Tom, I'm curious, when was last time you looked at your cam and inspected it for wear?


Also in an effort to keep things on the proper topic. I will say that in my 99.5 Jetta TDI, whenever I switched from using Rotella 5w40 synthetic oil to using Schaeffer's Supreme 9000 5w40 synthetic oil, my mileage improved. Mainly after the 5k mile mark, seems to me that the Rotella just didn't hold up as long. I always used a 6k-7k OCI with Rotella because of that factor, but with the Schaeffer's I use a 10k OCI. I'd say with the Schaeffer's I can get 1 MPG better than the other oils I've used.

Cheers,
Ben

I've never looked and until this came up in this thread honestly didn't know it was something that needed to be worried about.

And to also get back on topic, my mileage does not seem to be affected by the type of motor oil I use, but it does go down noticeably as I approach the 10,000 mile change interval.

 

[ruking]

I've never looked and until this came up in this thread honestly didn't know it was something that needed to be worried about.

And to also get back on topic, my mileage does not seem to be affected by the type of motor oil I use, but it does go down noticeably as I approach the 10,000 mile change interval.

I suspect a UOA at those points would probably confirm the SOTP's notion that the viscosity is thickening.

 

[DannyRay]

paid for 3 jettas so far with fuel savings, 01 $10k (totalled after 80K, hit by blazer at 40mph, not hurt) , 02 current $10K,01 sons $6.5K, mine has 194K now, I will keep buying these cars for the combination of safety, perf, econ, fit. Unfortunately, I think they screwed up the newer ones, MKIV is only one that fits me. I would like to see an AUDI A1 TDI but we will never have one here. I have done some of my own maintenance (oil, head studs, filters,trans oil, sport suspension etc.) Find non-dealer mechanic that with do work for about half the dealer and you will be happy with your car tractor ...

 

[ruking]

Given your satisfaction with the FE with the 02 Mk IV TDI, I do not think that VW will soon come out with anything resembling what your's will get. I say run it UP and past 200,000, 300,000 miles, past ETC. VWA has pretty much declared their goals of selling 3.55 times more units, ala, Toyota, GM. We of course know what happened to those two entities in the "more units is better race".

IF (BIG if) VW does come out with a future car that equals or exceeds what your can do, you can buy it USED @ that time. You will have some to a lot of history for both your 02 TDI and whatever you are comtempating to buy in the future.

 

[Richptl]

Ben,
You meant VW uses a 5W30 oil, not a 5W40. Thursday I had part of my 100 PD camshaft order arrive from Europe. We go through a lot of them around here; our experience is that the BEW cams are more robust than the BRMs. We have also found (as has Oilhammer who works on way more cars than most of us do!) that the Fully Synthetic Pentosin HP2 as well as the Lubromoly Diesel High Tech, both 505.01 and both 5W40 are the oils of choice for the PDs. He says that he's never had a PD owner come in for a camshaft that has run the HP2. I've heard similar things with the Lubromoly. This is why these two oils are the only two we recommend for a PD. Using a half bottle of ZDDP per oil change will really help keep the wear levels down too.

....Now excuse me while I go look at a PD for my wife to drive....

-BB

Thanks for the tip. I've got my eye on an '04 Jetta Wagon with a VO kit on it. I did some reading on other threads about running VO.

 

[Richptl]

Oh and what about climate, would those of us in the more northern states be less likely to see cam issues on 5W30 vs. the southern states?

 

[tDilove1]

ECu Tuners

I've been looking at parleys at a Diesel power tuner for our 2010 TDI Jetta. Just wandering about tuners/chips and what type of success people have had with them? Every brand has people that claim they work and reviews or people that claim they don't. I don't wanna spend 800-1000 and get nominal hp/mpg increase. I read a positive review in Diesel World about the tuner on parley on the Jetta.

Just want a little info and feed back from the field....

Thanks

 

[Burning Diesel]

Parleys is definitely good stuff. Used 2000 Audi A4 Portland Oregon

 

[speedeep]

With due respect, I thank all of you for your tips. Its always a good learning process. Never forget - its a hobby.
Secondly, a simple question. Having less weight helps increase average. Would it be advisable to fill up only up to half tank and drive....rather than full tank. Condisering 7-8 gallons weight up to 60+ pounds.
thanks. Appreciate advise/constructive criticism.

What? And lose the added momentum?