Newbies and Vets: Tips for better fuel economy!

JettaJake

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Location
CT TDI Corral
TDI
'03 GLS 5spd
In the dead of winter, I could debate that the gasser bug is the overall better choice for a 2 mile commute.

With snow on the ground, Jake does not get decently warm for a good 4 miles or more. I swear I can see the fuel gauge moving :eek: and thank goodness for heated seats :) The deciding factor could be wear.

If the primary engine duty cycle is:

- cold start, run for 4 to 6 minutes 2x/day in sub-freezing temps

The gasoline engine, while incurring greater fuel costs, could come out well ahead on maintenance and overall running costs. That duty cycle would be murderous on any engine but isn't a diesel really meant for the long haul? That's where it really shines. Given the choice, I'd still take the diesel, at least some days :D
 

bockegg

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
PA
TDI
2009 Jetta Loyalty TDi w/ DSG
JettaJake said:
In the dead of winter, I could debate that the gasser bug is the overall better choice for a 2 mile commute.

With snow on the ground, Jake does not get decently warm for a good 4 miles or more. I swear I can see the fuel gauge moving :eek: and thank goodness for heated seats :) The deciding factor could be wear.

If the primary engine duty cycle is:

- cold start, run for 4 to 6 minutes 2x/day in sub-freezing temps

The gasoline engine, while incurring greater fuel costs, could come out well ahead on maintenance and overall running costs. That duty cycle would be murderous on any engine but isn't a diesel really meant for the long haul? That's where it really shines. Given the choice, I'd still take the diesel, at least some days :D
I still run it all year on the 2 mile to work and from work trips. However, the wear and tear to the glow plugs might not be good.
 

JettaJake

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Location
CT TDI Corral
TDI
'03 GLS 5spd
nozzles = injectors or "holes" (where the fuel is brought into the cylinder)
downpipe = exhaust from turbo to rest of exhaust, basically the cat-converter & muffler (assuming they are still attached)

Welcome to the forum, but let me kindly recommend edumacating yourself with the search function before you ask such another newbie plum.

QUIZ: what's TDI mean? :D
 

JettaJake

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Location
CT TDI Corral
TDI
'03 GLS 5spd
bockegg said:
I still run it all year on the 2 mile to work and from work trips. However, the wear and tear to the glow plugs might not be good.
Wasn't the glow plugs I was worrying about - glow plugs are not all that costly - rather the oil-wetted parts.
 

Brock_from_WI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Green Bay, WI USA
TDI
2003 wagon
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I should add for short trips, well any trips in winter a coolant heater helps out a lot. The engine can get up to temp on shorter trips and it saves fuel as well, and yes it saves more fuel then electricity you consume, unless you leave it plugged in 24x7. I have found after 3-4 hours that’s as warm as it will get, so I have mine on a timer 3 hours before I leave.[/FONT]
 

cevec

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
New Beetle '04
Best Fuel in my Region?

Hopefully I'm in the right thread ...

I live in Louisville, KY, and I'm curious as to which company's diesel is the best to use. I've heard both BP and Chevron are good, but my local VW dealer recommended Chevron after my fuel efficiency started taking a nose dive while using BP (whose stations have recently turned "beige", not sure if they are all converting, or if this is a local thing).

Anyway, if anyone in the region has some advice, I'd appreciate it. I was getting 42-48 MPG while living in the Chicagoland area, and I'm only getting 34-38 MPG now. Thanks!
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
See my first post--you can't go wrong with Chevron! BP Amoco also has a very high Cetane rating which is what is best for your car.

As I said earlier, anyone who can forward me a corporate email or post the corporate email I will update the first post with updated cetane ratings...
Thanks all!
-BB
 

RI_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Location
Providence RI
TDI
'05 B5.5v, '89 DOKA Syncro
Here's Valero's reply:

-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Relations <Cusrel@valero.com>
To: {RI_TDI}; Customer Relations <Cusrel@valero.com>
Sent: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 1:56 pm
Subject: RE: Cetane Levels in Diesel

We asked them to do some more research based upon your request and their answer was:

No one is aware of any location at retail that we guarantee a cetane value greater than 40.
Unofficially, most diesel in the market is well above 40 cetane due to the technological improvements for ultra-low sulfur diesel. We just can't guarantee this or exactly how much higher than 40.
 

Tom Servo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2000
Location
LA (Lower Alabama)
TDI
2005 Gol TDI, blue and falling apart
BleachedBora said:
See my first post--you can't go wrong with Chevron! BP Amoco also has a very high Cetane rating which is what is best for your car.
...and it figures that, at least around here, BP and Chevron are overly proud of their diesel (i.e., they charge more than everyone else!)

Right now the best deals for D2 are at a Conoco truck stop and a Pilot truck stop. Everyone else in town, including my favorite place for B20, are 15-30¢ higher. :(

The Conoco stuff ran well enough, but I've always been wary of Pilot. I leave a black trail behind like a scared squid when I run that stuff.
 

JP123

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Location
Denmark
TDI
1999 Passat Sedan, 1.9TDI AFN
Not great considring condensing surface inside the tank is larger when running 1/2 tank all the time (depends of climate of course).
Weight reduction is ok for miage gain though.

sadi gaddi said:
With due respect, I thank all of you for your tips. Its always a good learning process. Never forget - its a hobby.
Secondly, a simple question. Having less weight helps increase average. Would it be advisable to fill up only up to half tank and drive....rather than full tank. Condisering 7-8 gallons weight up to 60+ pounds.
thanks. Appreciate advise/constructive criticism.
 

verylongdrive

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Location
HSV
TDI
Golf,2001
NarfBLAST said:
Or a ScangaugeII!!
Are the mileage numbers reliable for a TDI? There is somebody selling a kit for a similar device in Germany, which uses what's apparently the SG's method for milage (MAF volume), and he has a disclaimer that the mileage numbers are not correct for Diesels.
I once saw a post or thread here, which I can not find now, that mentioned puzzling about the fact that a calibration for a particular driving style won't match up with a different driving style, i.e. there are gross instaneous errors which will even out averaged over a tank, as long as you have the same driving style patterns.
Have these problems been address somehow? Does the SG use injection quantity or something like that when used on a TDI? (Does it mean that it has to be customized for VW-specific parameters instead of basic OBD-II values?)
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
Verylongdrive,

Great questions re Scangauge. I have no answers, except that mine is usualy accurate to within a litre even when I put in over 50 liters. During the last tank I pulled a very heavy trailer for over 100km using 50 percent more fuel than usual, and was still within a liter on fillup.
 

ZipiTDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
Colorado
TDI
Silver B5.5 GLS TDi Passat wagon w/ Tiptronic
Colorado stations not listed

***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Redline 85+ or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.

BP/Amoco, 51;
Chevron, 49;
PetroCanada, 47-51
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, "not less than 40," average 42, sometimes "up to 45."
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Flying J, 40
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
I tried asking the local stations here what the cetane levels are for their D2. None of them could tell me and most of them didn't even know what I was talking about. Several said it's on the pump, but I've never seen the number on any pump in Colorado and I'm still looking. Why don't they list it like they do the octane for gas?

Colorado has a some Texaco, Diamond Shamrock, Phillips 66, Shell, Sinclair, Valero, Western, and Mustang stations. But, mostly it's Conoco everywhere. BP/Amoco pulled out of Colorado about 2-3 years ago, which was a shocker to most everyone. Conoco bought out 95% of those locations, so they almost have a monoploy here now. The Sinclair near me doesn't carry diesel. Oh yea, we also have Boulder Gas, which has D2 and B100.

Any idea what the cetane numbers are for these other companies?

I always add PowerService no matter where I fuel up, adding about 4 oz. with each fill up in the Jetta and 6 oz. for each Passat fill up. Don't know if that's the right amount or not, but that's what I do. My daughter buys B20 almost exclusively (charging it on my card sometimes, the little stinker) and she usually adds the PS too, though sometimes she forgets. But I'm cheap! I almost always buy D2 at the Boulder Gas, since it's 1 of 2 near home that has D2, and is usually the best price in town. Last time tho I bought at the Conoco 'cause the tanker truck was at the BG. When I'm out of town, I usually still go cheap, but the choices of stations really dictate this. And of course I still always add PS, just to cover my arse.

Any comment on the ratio of PS to D2?
Maybe this depends on where I'm buying?
 

ZipiTDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Location
Colorado
TDI
Silver B5.5 GLS TDi Passat wagon w/ Tiptronic
Colorado stations not listed

***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Redline 85+ or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.

BP/Amoco, 51;
Chevron, 49;
PetroCanada, 47-51
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, "not less than 40," average 42, sometimes "up to 45."
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Flying J, 40
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
I tried asking the local stations here what the cetane levels are for their D2. None of them could tell me and most of them didn't even know what I was talking about. Several said it's on the pump, but I've never seen the number on any pump in Colorado and I'm still looking. Why don't they list it like they do the octane for gas?

Colorado has a some Texaco, Diamond Shamrock, Phillips 66, Shell, Sinclair, Valero, Western, and Mustang stations. But, mostly it's Conoco everywhere. BP/Amoco pulled out of Colorado about 2-3 years ago, which was a shocker to most everyone. :eek: Conoco bought out 95% of those locations, so they almost have a monoploy here now. The Sinclair near me doesn't carry diesel. Oh yea, we also have Boulder Gas, which has D2 and B100.

Any idea what the cetane numbers are for these other companies? :confused:

I always add PowerService no matter where I fuel up, adding about 4 oz. with each fill up in the Jetta and 6 oz. for each Passat fill up. Don't know if that's the right amount or not, but that's what I do. My daughter buys B20 almost exclusively (charging it on my card sometimes, the little stinker) and she usually adds the PS too, though sometimes she forgets. But I'm cheap! I almost always buy D2 at the Boulder Gas, since it's 1 of 2 near home that has D2, and is usually the best price in town. Last time tho I bought at the Conoco 'cause the tanker truck was at the BG. When I'm out of town, I usually still go cheap, but the choices of stations really dictate this. And of course I still always add PS, just to cover my arse.

Any comment on the ratio of PS to D2?
Maybe this depends on where I'm buying???
 

bhog79

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Location
bloomington, Il
TDI
2005 jetta tdi (PD)
are K&N filter really bad for MAF's

I have ran K&N stock replacement (not the cone type) for awhile. is it really that bad for on the MAF. the engine seem to run as good as new.
2005 jetta tdi (PD)
 

Ookpic

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
TDI
2002 Golf 2Dr 5spd
@ZipiTDi

I found that if you go to the corporate site and look for a "contact us" link you may have better luck finding out cetane levels. The local owner/operator or pump jockey at the station is not likely to know what cetane even is.

@bhog79

I don't believe the K&N filter is the culprit for killing your MAF. It is the oil that is used on the filter. This is not only with TDI's.
 

Hwy_Demon

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Location
Milton, Ontario
TDI
2010 Jetta TDi
Hi there

Is there a Canadian version of the quality of Deseil in Canada? I would love to know. cuz I am not getting even close to what I should as per this forum. lol

I use sunoco gold. but I just read its not even close to being the best.
 

Ookpic

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
TDI
2002 Golf 2Dr 5spd
Hwy_Demon said:
Is there a Canadian version of the quality of Deseil in Canada? I would love to know. cuz I am not getting even close to what I should as per this forum. lol

I use sunoco gold. but I just read its not even close to being the best.
Some of the values on the quality thread are Canadian. If there is one missing that you are interested in, email the company and if they get back to you, forward the email to BleachedBora. He will post it along with the others.

BTW, I use Sonoco Gold as well. I've used Sonoco fuel for the past 3 cars. I've tried PetroCan as supposedly it has one of the highest cetane levels. This maybe totally in my head but I thought the engine was louder and more "rattley" than when drinking the Sonoco. I didn't get any better performance or fuel economy after 3 or 4 tanks so I switched back to Sonoco Gold. If you are concerned about the cetane level you could always buy a jug of PS and drop some in every fill-up.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
I have a few Canadian companies up there, as often as I get more information from various companies forwarded to me I put it up. Feel free to contact whoever you wish and forward me their email and I'll put it on the list :).
Thanks!
-BB

Edit: Looks like Ookpic beat me to it ;)
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
Hwy_Demon said:
Is there a Canadian version of the quality of Deseil in Canada? I would love to know. cuz I am not getting even close to what I should as per this forum. lol

I use sunoco gold. but I just read its not even close to being the best.
I tried to start a thread here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=210677 but I gave up out of frustration from the oil companies not being able to simply answer the question "WHAT IS THE CETANE RATING OF YOUR FUEL?" :eek:

Thanks BleachedBora for adding the Canadian info to your list.
 

bockegg

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
PA
TDI
2009 Jetta Loyalty TDi w/ DSG
I'm a newbie to the '09 TDi's. The '09 requires 507.00 oil. Would it still be okay if you topped off with the 505.01 from the pumpe duse engine? I believe so, but I'm not sure.
Thanks,
Mike
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Nope, stick to 507.00 only if you want to be safe. I just had another guy call me up with a bad camshaft on a BEW. Used wrong (synthetic though) oil (with 3,000 mile change intervals). Now we're looking at a $2000 cylinder head...
Stick to the right stuff and only the right stuff!
-BB
 

bockegg

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
PA
TDI
2009 Jetta Loyalty TDi w/ DSG
BleachedBora said:
Nope, stick to 507.00 only if you want to be safe. I just had another guy call me up with a bad camshaft on a BEW. Used wrong (synthetic though) oil (with 3,000 mile change intervals). Now we're looking at a $2000 cylinder head...
Stick to the right stuff and only the right stuff!
-BB
Thanks for the response. Is it ok to use Howe's or Powerservice additive in the new '09 TDi engine?
 

pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
BleachedBora said:
BP/Amoco, 51;
Chevron, 49;
PetroCanada, 47-51
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, "not less than 40," average 42, sometimes "up to 45."
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Flying J, 40
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40

Hey BleachedBora,

I have contacted BP asking them about their cetane rating for diesel sold in Philadelphia metro area and I was informed that BP ULSD has a cetane rating of only 40 to 42, while their power blend has a rating of 47. Man, that sucks...

The number I called was 800-841-5255.
 
Last edited:

pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
Hess cetane rating

This is a reply to my email from Hess.

dateThu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:23 AM
subjectRE: Cetane rating
mailed-byhess.com
hide details 10:23 AM

The cetane rating posted for ULSD is 40 although much of the diesel we sell will test between 42 and 45. We must post 40 to be in complete compliance. We appreciate your business, thank you for writing.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
pawel said:
Hey BleachedBora,

I have contacted BP asking them about their cetane rating for diesel sold in Philadelphia metro area and I was informed that BP ULSD has a cetane rating of only 40 to 42, while their power blend has a rating of 47. Man, that sucks...

The number I called was 800-841-5255.
You're probably right, it's the BP/Amoco stations that had the 51 rating. We have standard BP in the northwest as well and I heard that it's lower quality.

Northern California has Chevron with Techron D, which makes them have a cetane of 50ish. Good stuff :).
 

intern

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Location
montreal
TDI
2002 tdi
question on mpg

have been reading and apprecaite info got a 2002 tdi get decent mileage
since i purchased car 2 years ago plastic under engine broke off snow and ice

was wondering would this affect mpg at all since it creates some type of change in air under car

thank you in advance
 
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