Newbie with Philosophical Question

cderk

Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Location
Park Ridge, NJ
TDI
'14 Passat TDI SE
Ok... before everyone turns flames on, hear me out...
Two weeks ago, I purchased my first VW and my first diesel. I got a Passat TDI SE. I purchased the car because I like the looks of it and I drive about 25k miles per year, so was interested in the savings on fuel. Here in NJ, I can purchase a gallon for $3.60
Anyway, I've been lurking around here for a month now. I realize that most of what you would expect are folks coming here with problems, looking for suggestion and tips from a lot of the veterans.
But then I see threads on bad HPFPs, turbos having to cool down, knowing when the car is in "regen mode", DFP issues, adding additives to fuel, etc. To me, reading the threads makes it sound like a nightmare to own a VW TDI. I cannot comprehend why VW would manufacture a car that would require so much expertise from the consumer to own.
I'm an engineer and I design consumer products. At the end of the day, our product testing takes into account a person using it who is unfamiliar with the product. I have to imagine that VW does the same thing - their cars need to last after the owner does nothing but regular maintenance. Not waiting for the turbo to cool down, not adding special chemicals during each fill up, not making sure that every once in a while they pound on the accelerator. I mean come on... the owners manual mentions nothing about any of this stuff.
I thought that cars were meant to just turn the key and drive. To each their own, but like I said, reading the threads here, it makes it sound like you need to have and OBDII scanner and be a master mechanic to own a TDI.
Am I missing something?
Ok - flame on!
cderk
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
What you rarely see here (or on other car forums) are posts that say "my car is working perfectly with only regularly scheduled maintenance". Therefore, cars always look worse that they usually are when all you read are the complaints.

That said: On any turbocharged engine, it is always a good idea to let it idle for a few seconds for the turbo to cool down a bit and understanding how the DPF regeneration works can also be useful information. Most TDI owners do not hang out here, so most TDI owners do not know (or want to know) all of the intricacies of how their car works. As an engineer, you might want to know more. The choice is yours. You can learn as much or as little as you choose. This same thing also applies to gasoline powered cars, but most people already know all they want to know about them. Since this is your first diesel, there is more to learn.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. I am not sure how close this comes to a philosophy, but it is what it is.:rolleyes:
 

Kalter|Tod

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Location
Wyoming
TDI
2006 Jetta (BRM)
There is no need to be a master mechanic to own and operate one of these cars. Most of the information here is to help you not damage your vehicle, and help keep repair costs down... This is the same with any car IMHO.

I have two main questions that will help answer yours..


1. Do you do your own maintenance on your vehicles?

2. Do you have a bottomless pocketbook?

Here are my answers.

1. Yes

2. No I do not, I am an underground coal miner. That is why I do my own maintenance.

That being said that Is why it is helpful FOR ME to follow the guidance on this site. I have bought since I joined this site:

VCDS - OBDII Tool

This will help you diagnose any problem with the car including HPFP, EGR, DPF, Glowplugs etc.

If you don't do your own maintenance then you must have deep pockets or you don't maintain your vehicle. In that case I would recommend a Honda.

No flaming intended.

Kalter

P.S. I am not a master mechanic, I am just a simple shade tree mechanic.
 
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cderk

Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Location
Park Ridge, NJ
TDI
'14 Passat TDI SE
Much appreciated. I'm here to learn... but as I mentioned it just seems like its a hassle. I think its interesting stuff, but I also think you can drive yourself nuts trying to baby the car to make it "last longer". Perhaps I bought the wrong car to just turn the key and drive.

The gas mileage kicks ass though. Been getting nearly 50mpg on the highway. For that, I cannot complain. Its about double what I was getting with the car I traded in!

Thanks again
 

cderk

Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Location
Park Ridge, NJ
TDI
'14 Passat TDI SE
If you don't do your own maintenance then you must have deep pockets or you don't maintain your vehicle. In that case I would recommend a Honda.
Ha ha ha... my previous car was a Toyota and the one before that was a Honda. There are certain things that I will service myself - especially where I know I can do it cheaper than the dealer - brakes, tires, etc.

If I had deep pockets, I'm not sure I'd be driving a VW :)
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
I realize that most of what you would expect are folks coming here with problems, looking for suggestion and tips from a lot of the veterans.

You hit it on the head here, very few people post to say that everything is great, no problems. I liken it to the possibility of getting cancer in one's life. If one lives everyday frightened to death of getting cancer, what is the point of being alive? I say follow you passion, do your homework, do the maintenance and enjoy the ride. Life is just too short to be worried about what may happen. For every early failure of an injection pump, there are thousands that don't fail...Mark
 
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Kalter|Tod

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Location
Wyoming
TDI
2006 Jetta (BRM)
Ha ha ha... my previous car was a Toyota and the one before that was a Honda. There are certain things that I will service myself - especially where I know I can do it cheaper than the dealer - brakes, tires, etc.

If I had deep pockets, I'm not sure I'd be driving a VW :)
Well that was not the intent of my post..... what I was trying to get at is that if you want to own a vehicle and not do any maintenance on it a diesel might not be the right choice. That being said; It does not matter what you own or drive there will be some maintenance involved, and they will all require some special tool to get the job done.

I was not implying that you have deep pockets, I simply told you to ask yourself those questions that I listed. And by doing so you would more than likely find the answers to your own questions.

Kalter
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
Ok I have no problems with all three of my TDIs:D


Over all the Passat had very few problem. They do have a different fuel system than the Jetta,Golf this will change for the 2015 model year.

Go to the Passat section and start reading. Welcome to the club:)
 

Jump62

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Location
Crofton, Maryland
TDI
2003 Jetta GlS,2006 NB (Crew Chief),2009 JSW
Ok... before everyone turns flames on, hear me out...
Two weeks ago, I purchased my first VW and my first diesel. I got a Passat TDI SE. I purchased the car because I like the looks of it and I drive about 25k miles per year, so was interested in the savings on fuel. Here in NJ, I can purchase a gallon for $3.60
Anyway, I've been lurking around here for a month now. I realize that most of what you would expect are folks coming here with problems, looking for suggestion and tips from a lot of the veterans.
But then I see threads on bad HPFPs, turbos having to cool down, knowing when the car is in "regen mode", DFP issues, adding additives to fuel, etc. To me, reading the threads makes it sound like a nightmare to own a VW TDI. I cannot comprehend why VW would manufacture a car that would require so much expertise from the consumer to own.
I'm an engineer and I design consumer products. At the end of the day, our product testing takes into account a person using it who is unfamiliar with the product. I have to imagine that VW does the same thing - their cars need to last after the owner does nothing but regular maintenance. Not waiting for the turbo to cool down, not adding special chemicals during each fill up, not making sure that every once in a while they pound on the accelerator. I mean come on... the owners manual mentions nothing about any of this stuff.
I thought that cars were meant to just turn the key and drive. To each their own, but like I said, reading the threads here, it makes it sound like you need to have and OBDII scanner and be a master mechanic to own a TDI.
Am I missing something?
Ok - flame on!
cderk
OK I'll step up, what are you missing.....It's German.... German engineers do things because they can not because they should. I'm on my fourth VW Diesel and I started in 1978 and guess what the manual had very little about how to make the car run in a Kansas winter. My 2003 had the relay 109 mystery failures and the great window clip breaking, my Dad's 2006 is cursed with cam failure and having to use a VW spec oil ( 505.01 ) that can be hard to find. Add to this I have a 2009 that had its aux fuel pump fail that is one of the HPFP problems and all the other stuff.
So why do I still own 3 of the 4 diesels with all these problems? It's because no other car in the US will do that same things as my VWs can on a regular basis. Overland trip to Vegas in the 09......piece of cake ( 37 MPG @ 72mph avg for 5200miles), when I commuted into DC 50 miles a day round trip and refilled twice a month... no prob. I have modded the crap all three cars euro cluster on the 03, taller 5th gear (1800 rpm @ 65Mph), euro headlamp inserts on the 06 bug, metal skid plates on all three cars.
The people on this forum are the people who go the extra mile to understand their cars and some of us will do some crazy things to ( and for ) our cars.
I'm a computer systems analyst by trade and it sounds like you put your cart before the horse......gather information.....analyze.....write requirements.......built/develop.....maintain, the classic life cycle fuction. Sounds like you bought on the millage and found the other stuff after the fact and that you might have been better off with a Toyota. My family have owned 4 Toyotas, they are very good cars and most have the soul of a toaster and handle like one. I read manuals which for an America male puts me a minority group and hate products that are dumbed down to a lowest common group. Some bad news too VW makes more on its service depts, they want you to come in, plunk down $95 to $125 to do the same thing my trusty Vagcom cable and software can do, than selling cars. Try finding how to change a bulb in your Passat or change the rear brake pads.
So some of your other issues, Turbo cool down...only after blasting down a freeway at 75 and come to a rest stop.... by the time you undo the seatbelt and turn off the radio your cool, all other time no problem. Additives come in very handy to keep gelling from happening, my 78 did it to me three times in Kansas during the winter, nothing like this website for info. Also I take trips in the winter time from cold to warm and back again so the fuel I got in Georgia isn't treated to Maryland temps in January. As to your pound on the accelerator??????
You thought you bought a car and found you have a new hobby. Go to a local GTG and see how and why we have discovered about our cars, remember this is a website with a diesel bias or sell your Passat and look for a car that meets your needs better.
Paul
aka Jump62
 

sandmansans

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
NJ/PA
TDI
2014 Jetta
To elaborate on the previous post, this is a web forum. Typically members post in forums to find a solution to their problem they're experiencing. In essence, you're only exposed to a minority of TDI owners.

I've owned 4 VW's, this being my first TDI but I've owned other Diesel no major issues on three of them apart from normal stuff. One of them was a Salvage from a river flood. I got it dirt cheap and ran it until the wheels fell off, well actually until all the remaining gears went out and the electrical system took its final dump. Apart from these 4 VW's I've owned a lot of other cars (14)...The VW's with proper preventative maintenance (apart from the salvage) were just as reliable, if not more than the others...I don't care what car you have, if you don't do the basics and take care of stuff when it happens, then you WILL experience issues.

My tips to you are:
1.)Make sure to change Fluids and Filters at scheduled intervals...Also use the recommended fluids and filters, the German cars are most sensitive to this in my experience.
2.Don't be afraid to get under your car and take a good look at things: This is especially important for folks like me and you that drive in NJ/NY. The road hazards of potholes and ice chunks, especially after this Winter, can really cause some serious damage. Check your rods and other suspension parts as these can see some serious abuse living up this way.
3.This is a big one especially living in NJ. Absolutely DO NOT! fill at those Delta and American fuel stations. Their fuel is absolute GARBAGE. The savings of 5 cents a gallon aren't worth the drop in MPGS and possible damage caused by sup-par fuel.. Go and spend the extra $1.50 to fill at a BP. It balances out in MPGS and peace of mind.
4.If the Check Engine light goes on, that means DONT DRIVE IT!!..Ok maybe it doesn't literally mean this, but in my general experience a CEL is indicative of more serious things to come, especially if not taken care of right away. The longer you wait, the more damage it can cause so find the source of the light and fix it ASAP.
5.Check your tire pressure: Sounds silly, but keep your PSI too low or too high and it can cause a range of issues not to mention take away from the overall stability/safety of your car
6.This one is an extra, use some Cetane boost. It's not necessary but it does aid in fuel economy and general health. Also aids in giving peace of mind.


All of those tips can be and should be applied to any car...I don't care if it runs off of Diesel, Gas, Batteries or Hydrogen..Let alone manufacturer.

Honestly just drive the car and enjoy it. Don't baby it too much, as Diesels like to work a bit. Oh and really DONT FILL AT THOSE CHEAP-O fuel stations!!

BP on 17S next to the Stop N Shoppe in Paramus has Diesel pretty cheap.
 

sandmansans

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
NJ/PA
TDI
2014 Jetta
Oh and the Sunnoco on GSP at the Montvale service plaza has Diesel pretty cheap there too...Don't know which way you drive towards typically...Ramsey also has BP and Mobile cheap 3.60 range.
 

sandmansans

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
NJ/PA
TDI
2014 Jetta
I won't patranize BP or Valero, for obvious reasons...Mark

Not a fan of Valero, but I've always filled BP no problems...I was stating to him to avoid the Delta's and American fuel. They're the absolute worst. They're a common sight in NJ. They offer fuel 10-15 cent's less per gallon than everyone else and they're usually run by a guy in a Turban that won't get off of his phone. You can see a significant drop in MPGS both gas and Diesel filling at these. Not to mention they've been busted before in the paper. BP fuel in gasser would yield me 2-4MPG's more than competitors. Diesel I am seeing favorable results. I don't know what the difference in MPG is for Diesel as I only fill BP typically
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
Not a fan of Valero, but I've always filled BP no problems...I was stating to him to avoid the Delta's and American fuel. They're the absolute worst. They're a common sight in NJ. They offer fuel 10-15 cent's less per gallon than everyone else and they're usually run by a guy in a Turban that won't get off of his phone. You can see a significant drop in MPGS both gas and Diesel filling at these. Not to mention they've been busted before in the paper. BP fuel in gasser would yield me 2-4MPG's more than competitors. Diesel I am seeing favorable results. I don't know what the difference in MPG is for Diesel as I only fill BP typically
I just think BP got off easy for the gulf spill. My conscious won't let me buy there...Mark
 

Steve-o

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 1999
Location
Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
it just seems like its a hassle. I think its interesting stuff, but I also think you can drive yourself nuts trying to baby the car to make it "last longer".
I liken a lot of the fiddly stuff to other pursuits.

Some people like putting a vinyl record on a turntable, cleaning it (and the stylus) meticulously, placing the needle in the lead-in groove, and coming back 15-20 minutes to listen to the other side. Others would rather click and hear an MP3 of their favorite music.

Some people like to roast their own coffee beans, grind them to the perfect size just before assembling the French press, heating the water to the perfect temperature, and timing the steep precisely. Others fill up the coffee maker the night before with water and store-bought coffee and enjoy a timer-launched cup right away.

There's no real good and bad here. Certainly you can listen to music without cleaning the LP and you can make French press coffee with Folgers. But, for best results, people engage in the fiddly bits. I don't consider any VW an automotive appliance. But for maximum performance and longevity, the fiddly bits (fuel treatment, regen times, etc.) make a difference.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Lots of VW TDI owners are engineers. And those who aren't may well be car enthusiasts. And they're often do-it-yourselfers. Of course people who are into details about how their car operates are also the people that post here, so it colors the info you've read.

There are lots of TDI owners who just turn the key and drive. And the cars do fine, especially the new Passat. If you follow the maintenance schedule you shouldn't have any problems. Many people don't use fuel additives, know when a regen is occuring, don't think about how they drive the car when cold, or hot.

People like to think they get some improved live span and fewer repairs if they pay attention to some details of operating these cars. Maybe, maybe not.

You should do what pleases you. If you want to learn more and pay closer attention to the car and how it operates, have fun. Or just drive. Either way, I hope you enjoy the car.
 
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