New Wagon - Discovered Aftermarket Head

[riofrio]

Hi folks,

I just bought a 2002 Jetta Wagon (details at http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299022). I got it at a used car lot, and having had a B4 for several years, I inspected it to the best of my ability, scanned codes with VCDS (found none), and found the car to be in near excellent running condition, so I decided to take my chances.

Immediately after buying it I took it to TDI Guru Jeremy (Fase2000TDI), and during the timing belt change discovered that the head in place is not a VW OEM (likely one of those spanish units, but not certain). It seems very probable that this car had a TB break and was "fixed" by placing an aftermarket head, and the TB wasn't even done properly afterward (mark and pray, rollers and water pump re-used). Luckily it didn't have another TB failure as a result.

Pulled the valve cover and noticed a good 2mm of wear on at least one lobe, and some minor wear marks on some of the followers. I am assuming this is what happens when the moving parts in the head don't have the proper tolerance specs. Jeremy went ahead and finished the TB belt job and urged me to consider getting a properly rebuilt head by Frank06 as soon as possible (plus new camshaft and followers), with which I fully agree.

My only concern here is finding uglier stuff upon removing the head, whether piston damage or block damage. I don't know the history of the car and can't assume anything: could have been a broken TB, run out of oil, runaway engine, who knows. All I know for sure is that it runs great as it is, has very good power, idles and accelerates smoothly, and does not seem to consume oil or smoke more than normal. Can I take these as indications that most likely all is well and getting a proper head in place will set me straight? Other than doing a compression check, and inspecting the block for visual signs of damage, is there anything I can do before removing the head?

By the way, anyone in the northeast looking for TDI service, Jeremy is the man! Extremely thorough, knowledgeable and great guy to deal with. Worth every penny!

 

[paramedick]

Could also be one of the cheap C.R.A.P. heads that the outfit in Florida or Prothe is selling.

I concur with the recommendation of a Franko6 rebuilt head. Good news. You will be able to reuse all your new TB component. You'll need a new head gasket, exhaust manifold gaskets, downpipe gasket, EGR O ring. water outlet O rings, and injector seals. Perhaps a turbo oil supply line if yours breaks when removing it.

BTW, a reputable member in the for sale section is selling a Frank rebuilt head for a good price.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300129

 

[PDJetta]

"All I know for sure is that it runs great as it is, has very good power, idles and accelerates smoothly, and does not seem to consume oil or smoke more than normal. Can I take these as indications that most likely all is well and getting a proper head in place will set me straight? Other than doing a compression check, and inspecting the block for visual signs of damage, is there anything I can do before removing the head?"

I would be content with just replacing the head. I would perform a compression test first in case a rod is bent. If after removing the head, if there are valve indent marks on the piston top(s) I would measure piston protrusion at TDC on all 4 and compare the results.

You may want to just consider replacing the camshaft and lifters in the head you have, but I would consult with Frank06 on that.

--Nate

 

[turbocharged798]

I would just run the head and keep a close eye on the cam as this point.

 

[riofrio]

Could also be one of the cheap C.R.A.P. heads that the outfit in Florida or Prothe is selling.

I concur with the recommendation of a Franko6 rebuilt head. Good news. You will be able to reuse all your new TB component. You'll need a new head gasket, exhaust manifold gaskets, downpipe gasket, EGR O ring. water outlet O rings, and injector seals. Perhaps a turbo oil supply line if yours breaks when removing it.

BTW, a reputable member in the for sale section is selling a Frank rebuilt head for a good price.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300129

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your input. Jeremy is well prepared and has every component at hand. I know which head you are referring to, I have already contacted Mike and will probably buy his head. Comes with new camshaft and lifters too .
BTW too bad I'm not near you anymore... I would have loved to have you take a look at my B4 and its weird idle/shudder issue.

You may want to just consider replacing the camshaft and lifters in the head you have, but I would consult with Frank06 on that.

I thought of that, but I think there is a very strong chance that the wear in these components has happened AFTER the head was replaced. I will definitely bring it up to Frank. Unfortunately he is a busy man and may take me some time to get a hold of him.

I would just run the head and keep a close eye on the cam as this point.

I've wondered that too: if the worst that can happen from running a crappy head is re-damaging the head only, then might as well wait for to fail. But it seems to me that worse thing could happen and if the cams are already wearing then sooner is better than later.

I've also found a sticker for a local auto mechanic in the car. Maybe I'm lucky and turns out those are the guys who did all the work. Then I could try to get all the details from them.

 

[vwjettadsl]

I had a couple of TDI's with aftermarket heads. Which are nothing more than S.C.R.A.P metal. (Second-rate Chinese Replacement Auto Parts)

Last one I saw had only been installed on the car for less than 2000 miles and it already had 2-3mm of wear on the cam. I ended up buying the car as a project, haven't pulled the head as of yet. More than likely the cylinder walls are scored. Thats what happened to the last car I worked on that had a SCRAP head, ended up just replacing the whole motor.

I will not put a car back together that has a SCRAP head on it.

Also you cannot rebuild a SCRAP head, I had Frank look at one. He said the whole head was simply junk, very cheap metals used. In fact the head that Frank looked at one of the valves had a broken keeper. It was a ticking time bomb. If the head drops a valve then you have piston damage, maybe even a bent rod. This is one big reason why I refuse to put a car back together that has a SCRAP head.

If I were you I would stop driving the car until you can get it fixed properly.

Sorry for your misfortune.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[dadsdiesel]

Another option if you are in a hurry -

Looks like Herm stocks ALH heads - though you won't get a core return for yours.....

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=289785&highlight=head

Added note: What a shame!
You had given that car a very good going over before you bought it, and asked questions here - even with your due diligence it still kind of bit you. Do be glad you had it checked out as soon as you did though!
Now maybe more can see what a complete maintenance history is and why some of our TDI's sell for over BB value.

Good luck and I hope you have it all together and right soon so you can enjoy it for a long time.

 

[riofrio]

Thanks for the replies. I have a Frank head coming my way, but I won't have time to get it installed until next weekend.

Ben, what do you mean by "scoring" of the cylinder walls, and how can a crappy head contribute to this? Broken keepers sound quite scary...

dadsdiesel, thanks for your concern. If there is no block or piston/rod damage, then I think I'm still in pretty good shape.