New VW diesel engine

bhtooefr

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There is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV with AWD, FWIW. (I mean, the Pacifica Hybrid is almost certainly a better vehicle in many ways, but it doesn't have AWD.)
 

atc98002

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Getting back on topic about the 'New VW diesel engine'. For VW to decide to bring it to the US will require the average fuel prices stay above $3/Gallon nationwide for a few years in a row. It can happen but it needs to be sooner than later in my view. Perhaps in the next five years or so to have a fighting chance.
In the Seattle area, we've been above $3 per gallon for some time. RUG is generally about $3.39, PUG around $3.80, and D2 I've seen anywhere from $3.30 to $3.80. I miss my Passat TDI, but would jump on a TDI Tiguan in a heartbeat.
 

tadawson

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Getting back on topic about the 'New VW diesel engine'. For VW to decide to bring it to the US will require the average fuel prices stay above $3/Gallon nationwide for a few years in a row. It can happen but it needs to be sooner than later in my view. Perhaps in the next five years or so to have a fighting chance.
Disagree! The desire for diesel far exceeds CBS . . .
 

TDIMeister

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There is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV with AWD, FWIW. (I mean, the Pacifica Hybrid is almost certainly a better vehicle in many ways, but it doesn't have AWD.)
Hmm, I ruled out the Outlander PHEV quite early on because what reviews I read about it was rather negative, particularly with regard to its fuel economy on the combustion engine. Add to the fact that the closest Mitsu dealer is 420 miles away from me and I'm not going to leave a vehicle filled with bleeding-edge technology to independent shops in a small, isolated city in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, I'm checking out reviews again and may put it on a list of possibilities.

Thanks for the tip `Tooef!
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I would not own a Mitsubishi anyway, not anymore. They are going away as they have been absorbed into the Renault-Nissan alliance. The brand is on life support, and I suspect within five years they will be gone altogether or just be marketing corporate rebadged Nissan products. Renault wanted them for their EV expertise, nothing more.
 

tikal

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Also in general terms a light duty diesel engine is going to give you a better overall return on investment for an SUV (with or without AWD) than a gasoline hybrid engine. We are talking better efficiency under load and better performance/drivability. Maybe in terms of reliability the gasoline hybrid has an edge until they will require to have GPF (gas particulate filter) and will have a way to deal with VOCs or volatile organic compounds.

On top of all of these and according to the GREET model current light duty diesel vehicles have lower overall life cycle environmental health costs as compared to gasoline hybrid vehicles.
 
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tikal

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Cheap B*stard Syndrome . . . :) :)

(It's not just about $$$ . . .).
I presume that some people buy any vehicle that has a premium due to performance, efficiency, luxury, reliability, etc. or a combination of these regardless of the fuel cost or other factors. However I would argue that for light duty diesel vehicles the cost of fuel is one of the major factors that drives the rate of sales for the masses.
 

tadawson

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While that was a factor for us, it was far from the main one . . . more of a nice side benefit than anything else. Fit and comfort were primary, followed by sane control layout (no touchscreen nonsense for anything critical), and space. Then maybe features, and hey! This car comes in diesel! Given the choice for me, diesel was a no brainer, and I can proudly state that we own *ZERO* gasoline fueled vehicles!

Cheap little econoboxes and clown cars may be bought for mainly cost, but the Passat is neither. We could have bought Mercedes, BMW, whatever . . . . we liked this car best (a lot of which has to do with the incomprehensible controls on a lot of the others). I tend to keep cars for a long time, and use all value, and that's mainly where my comment came from. I didn't buy it for reesale value, settlement windfall, etc. I paid $X to meet a need, and it does . . . . the rest is not relevant . . . IMHO . . .

The masses? Yeah, cluelessness abounds . . . but then again, I'm not 'the masses' :) :)
 
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Jetta_Pilot

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Getting back on topic about the 'New VW diesel engine'. For VW to decide to bring it to the US will require the average fuel prices stay above $3/Gallon nationwide for a few years in a row. It can happen but it needs to be sooner than later in my view. Perhaps in the next five years or so to have a fighting chance.
Just drove from Laredo, Tx to Detroit, Mi and I never paid more than $ 2.73 for Diesel along the way. But I do not go to the typical easy-of easy-on stations.Those had prices as much as $ 3.19 gal. Just getting off the interstate a few hundred feet the fuel prices are lower and have the same price for fuel paying cash or CC.
 

kjclow

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Just getting off the interstate a few hundred feet the fuel prices are lower and have the same price for fuel paying cash or CC.
That's one of my biggest grips and I refuse to purchase fuel at any place that has different pricing. That is unless I've not paid attention and am running on less than fumes.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Doesn't Renault have significantly more EV expertise?

Not sure. Mitsubishi has been a leader in electronics technology for decades, though, and have sold an EV here.... which is all by itself one more model than Renault has sold here since the '80s.

But hey, Renault also has a lot of diesel engines, as does Nissan (UD) for that matter, yet they bought a Cummins engine to go in their giant ugly Titan pickup truck, so.... :confused:
 

bhtooefr

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Renault has one of the better-selling EVs in Europe, the Zoe, though...

Of course, it seems that the next-gen LEAF and next-gen Zoe will somehow be brought to the same platform using the same technology, so someone's tech will end up losing out...
 

hevster1

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"Findings published in the respected scientific journal Nature earlier this year revealed that a minimum of 38,000 people around the world die early every year as a result of the failure of diesel vehicles to meet official emissions limits in real driving conditions."

Give me a break!
-Jason
This is just another B/S story. I saw a similar one a couple years ago written by Seth Borenstein where he stated that TDI's had killed over 5K people every year which is libel. Emissions on gas vehicles are plenty bad too and in most cases worse than diesel. Then there is the fact that multiple manufacturers were caught cheating over the years including Toyota, Honda, GM Ford etc. VW was crucified because it competed with the Prius.
 

atc98002

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This is just another B/S story. I saw a similar one a couple years ago written by Seth Borenstein where he stated that TDI's had killed over 5K people every year which is libel. Emissions on gas vehicles are plenty bad too and in most cases worse than diesel. Then there is the fact that multiple manufacturers were caught cheating over the years including Toyota, Honda, GM Ford etc. VW was crucified because it competed with the Prius.
Was just in the garage and looked at the tailpipes of my daughter's GTI. Those things are coated with black residue. While it has about 60k miles, and my Passat TDI had about 24k when I sold it back, the TDI had a spotless tailpipe.
 

Ted Hurst

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Was just in the garage and looked at the tailpipes of my daughter's GTI. Those things are coated with black residue. While it has about 60k miles, and my Passat TDI had about 24k when I sold it back, the TDI had a spotless tailpipe.
Thanks to direct injection. GPF's are coming.
 

atc98002

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Yep, I knew they're coming. Tried explaining that on some other sites and they think you're crazy. ;)
 

bhtooefr

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This kind of thing is also why I see downsize and turbocharge as a huge mistake - the downsized and turbocharged engines are at their very worst when they're deep in the boost, and they're designed to be deep in the boost in a lot of actual driving.

Naturally aspirated GDI engines aren't great, but they're at least better about this, and port injected engines are even better. (Still not as good as a diesel with a properly functioning DPF, though, but then you have to worry about the reliability issues with a DPF - it's to the point that Volkswagen is advertising 2.0T gasser Transporters as a short trip-capable option, in Europe, but that won't last long.)
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Except it is not a huge mistake if that is what consumers will buy under the current regulatory hurdles. Who cares if the technology is only viable for a decade, they'll sell MILLIONS of cars in that time period.

Funny you mention the TSI Transporter, as there is one in the country now I am following on my Eurovan Owner's Group (I know the current T is not technically a "Eurovan"). The driver (who is German) is laughing about how awful the engine is. Fuel consumption, having to run it hard at a higher RPM, etc. And as he puts it, it is actually noisier at cruise than the TDI is, and they have on offer a real sweetheart of a twin turbo 2.0L engine in the Transporter now. But I suspect it may get some buyers but likely not many.
 

bhtooefr

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I suspect in that big of a vehicle, a 3.6 VR6 would be more efficient, more reliable, and lower emissions in the real world, than that 2.0 TSI...

(Mind you, there's someone on Oppositelock that posted about getting 16.1 MPG in their 1.8 TSI NMS Passat... Volkswagen's turbo gassers can get ludicrously bad mileage when driven hard...)
 

atc98002

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I suspect in that big of a vehicle, a 3.6 VR6 would be more efficient, more reliable, and lower emissions in the real world, than that 2.0 TSI...

(Mind you, there's someone on Oppositelock that posted about getting 16.1 MPG in their 1.8 TSI NMS Passat... Volkswagen's turbo gassers can get ludicrously bad mileage when driven hard...)
I had a '17 Jetta as a rental for a little over a month last year. It had the 1.4T, which I believe is also DI. In that car, it was incredibly peppy, and I pencil measured MPG at around 38, driving in northern VA traffic. I would be hard pressed to do any better with my Passat 2.0 TDI. Overall I was amazed at how nice it was.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Funny how some folks lament how awful gutless the 1.4t is, and others say it is "peppy". :p

I'll say it is better in the power department than the 2.slo it replaced, and it is certainly more fuel efficient, but I'll lay odds the old 2.slo would outlast it twice over. Maybe even thrice over. ;)
 

turbocharged798

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Funny how some folks lament how awful gutless the 1.4t is, and others say it is "peppy". :p

I'll say it is better in the power department than the 2.slo it replaced, and it is certainly more fuel efficient, but I'll lay odds the old 2.slo would outlast it twice over. Maybe even thrice over. ;)
The last run of Jetta 2.0s were EPA rated 34 highway I believe. That is pretty good for a stupid simple tractor engine that will run forever...
 

atc98002

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I had a '96 Jetta with a 2.0 (not sure if it was the same engine) and my daughter had a 99(?) Beetle with one. No way I would put up with one of those now. And they can rate it whatever they like for EPA mileage. Doesn't mean many people will get anywhere near that. :) The rough average on Fuelly is about 24-27 MPG. Some fool is reporting 89 MPG for the 2.0 gas. Me thinks he doesn't know how to use the app correctly.

Edited because it was her first NB that had the 2.0. Her 07 had the 2.5, which was worlds better.
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Yeah, neither the A3's ABA 2.slo, or the A4's series of them (AEG, AVH, AZG, BEV, etc.) seem to be able to hit any magical EPA target. I have owned a bunch of them. Normal driving for me, they struggle to get 25. My last one, a 2005 NB (BEV engine) quite literally used twice the fuel my ALH Golf does. Same driving, same route, same speeds. The darn things spin nearly 4k RPM at 80 MPH! :eek:

The 2011-2015 NCS Jetta with that later version of that engine (CPBA) is geared a little taller, but not much. At least those got a 6sp Aisin slushbox option (as did some of the last NB 'verts with the 2.slo), so they don't have the hideous fuel consumption of the cars cursed with the 01M. Seriously, you would never think a Jetta could get into the teens for MPG, but around town and at higher highway speeds, a 2.slo slushbox A4 Jetta most certainly will. :eek:

But, incredible thirst for fuel aside, they are a sturdy and reliable engine.
 

turbobrick240

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It looks like Audi is/was still selling diesels with cheat devices. You'd think they would've learned their lesson after billions of dollars and the PR nightmare from dieselgate. Apparently they didn't.
 
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