New VW diesel engine

[turbobrick240]

I don't know...., VW seems to have finally read the tea leaves. At least based upon their recent investments in EV production. Tesla has had production problems from day one, yet they seem to have no problem solving those problems and moving forward.

I think the whole buy Musk a couch thing was just for a laugh. Some of the tesla true believers can definitely be a bit extreme, but that's just par for the course. I'm sure the true skeptics will still be crying about one thing or another even when Tesla is cranking out a million cars per year.

 

[flee]

Haters are gonna hate.
Musk seems like someone with the too-rare combination of innovative ideas and
the means to implement them.

 

[tikal]

It seems to me that automotive manufacturers have been reading the 'tea leaves' correctly to their benefit by selling more and more gasoline powered inefficient SUVs and trucks. Less sedans, more SUVs. That is a trend for sure. Is it a ripe time to sell a somewhat affordable electrical SUV to the masses for road trips (in addition to city driving)? I don't think so. Until we get there the void can be filled with guess what: an SUV with a light duty diesel engine

Why we keep insisting that current diesel cars have to compete with EV. At the moment one is suited mostly for the highway and the other is great for city driving.

What's wrong with this scenario besides that the average American is not interested in efficiency unless the price of fuel goes so high (and we are not there currently)?

 

[atc98002]

So, when is the new model diesel engine going to be available in the States? That's all I care about.

 

[Graham Line]

I have heard it said that 50 of these container ships make more polution than all the world's cars. They burn a fuel 1 step up from crude [bunker fuel]. At least most of this is at sea, not on our roads or in our cities.

Given that pollution from China can be detected and measured on the US West Coast, where particulates are vented into the atmosphere isn't a very good argument. Not that marine diesels aren't pretty dirty. Ask where they flush their tanks and dump the bilge water.

 

[GEFP]

Nobody yet has addressed the issue of battery life in the cold. If you want half descent range in the winter you need to keep your EV in a heated garage both at home and at work.

Read about a "cannon ball run" in a Tesla. They wore snowmobile suits and blankets to stay warm because using the cars heater wouldn't leave enough range. How many daily drivers are going to go for that?

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of an electric vehicle. But you need to be realistic about the capabilities.

 

[turbobrick240]

How many driver's daily commute consists of the Cannonball Run? You won't see many Ford Explorers running at 24 hours of Le Mans (maybe Le Mons)for that matter. I think the odds that VW will bring any tdi cars back here are somewhere between 0 and 1%.

 

[GEFP]

How many driver's daily commute consists of the Cannonball Run? You won't see many Ford Explorers running at 24 hours of Le Mans (maybe Le Mons)for that matter. I think the odds that VW will bring any tdi cars back here are somewhere between 0 and 1%.

Well lets bring it closer to realism then. There is a gentleman who works for Macdon in Winnipeg who can only get a round trip from Portage La Prairie to work and back on days when the temperature isn't below freezing. That's a 110 mile commute round trip.

I agree with your odds but the odds of present electric cars being practical in cold climates is even less.

 

[tikal]

For the time being you might need both vehicles in your garage for functionality and redundancy: an EV and a diesel.

Problem solved

 

[soldierguy]

To me, the European market regulations and the US market regulations have it exactly backwards.

Europe, in general, is a place where you can have one car, and that car can be designed for city/urban/suburban driving (i.e. electric). That's possible because of excellent public transportation, and distances between cities that are shorter, relative to the US. Drive the electric on a daily basis, then take longer trips on public transport. The focus in Europe should have been on electrics all along, but it was on Diesels.

In the US, an electric-only vehicle only makes sense for those who live in an urban/suburban area, and never leave. Given our lousy public transportation infrastructure and longer distances between cities, electrics only make sense for a very small portion of the population. Cars end up being daily drivers AND weekend getaway tools. The focus should have been on Diesels all along, but now it's on electrics.

That's not even accounting for temperature impacts on battery life. Add that in, and electrics make sense largely only in coastal cities from the mid-Atlantic, stretching around the coasts and warmer areas to Seattle. Problem is, in many of those crowded areas (particularly here in California), housing costs force a lot of people into long commutes...not good for electrics. Public transport being lousy, those people then drive to work in whatever they can afford.

My personal situation is a little different...if I could work where I lived, an electric would make a heck of a lot of sense, IF I never left the area. I looked hard at a Bolt (and Volt), but it made no sense for me and my 225 mile round-trip daily commute. The Bolt wouldn't get me home from work, having a realistic range of 150-170 miles on the highway. A Volt would run on electricity for less than 1/4 of my daily drive, then I'd have a car getting 38 mpg, so the overall fueling costs make no sense, especially when paired with a high initial purchase price. I had a Prius, and it was great around town...better than the Jetta TDI. Smooth, quiet, and very efficient once the gas engine warmed up. But on the highway, it wasn't so great, and that's where I drove it all the time, every single day. The switch to the TDI was a no-brainer for me...low purchase price (it was a buyback car), great warranty, great fuel economy (although not quite as good as the Prius), and a MUCH better car for highway driving.

I've been doing a lot of reading on fuels over the past few months, and I think that renewable Diesel is very promising (specifically, fuels like Propel Diesel HPR), and could be the way that allow Diesels to continue to exist, especially in California. Less soot, which means fewer regens and longer DPF life, and lower NOx emissions, requiring less urea. But that's only if renewables that are compatible with DPF/Urea systems and high pressure fuel pumps & injectors can expand more broadly than their current market areas.

I'm hopeful that Diesel emissions tech will continue to improve, but I think that has to be paired with moving away from dino fuels and into renewables. So I'm glad to hear VW is talking about Diesels again.

Having said all that, I need to take a break from the internet and go pump some dead dinosaurs into my tank so I can get to work for the next couple days. Cheers!

 

[Gilty_one]

agreed - same goes for us Western Canadians

Agreed - our circumstancesm, distances between cities don't make for a viable electric market. There is still room for the gas-electric and diesel-electric hybrids in our neck of the woods. Full out electric can't handle the distances that I drive on a daily basis.

To me, the European market regulations and the US market regulations have it exactly backwards.

Europe, in general, is a place where you can have one car, and that car can be designed for city/urban/suburban driving (i.e. electric). That's possible because of excellent public transportation, and distances between cities that are shorter, relative to the US. Drive the electric on a daily basis, then take longer trips on public transport. The focus in Europe should have been on electrics all along, but it was on Diesels.

In the US, an electric-only vehicle only makes sense for those who live in an urban/suburban area, and never leave. Given our lousy public transportation infrastructure and longer distances between cities, electrics only make sense for a very small portion of the population. Cars end up being daily drivers AND weekend getaway tools. The focus should have been on Diesels all along, but now it's on electrics.

That's not even accounting for temperature impacts on battery life. Add that in, and electrics make sense largely only in coastal cities from the mid-Atlantic, stretching around the coasts and warmer areas to Seattle. Problem is, in many of those crowded areas (particularly here in California), housing costs force a lot of people into long commutes...not good for electrics. Public transport being lousy, those people then drive to work in whatever they can afford.

My personal situation is a little different...if I could work where I lived, an electric would make a heck of a lot of sense, IF I never left the area. I looked hard at a Bolt (and Volt), but it made no sense for me and my 225 mile round-trip daily commute. The Bolt wouldn't get me home from work, having a realistic range of 150-170 miles on the highway. A Volt would run on electricity for less than 1/4 of my daily drive, then I'd have a car getting 38 mpg, so the overall fueling costs make no sense, especially when paired with a high initial purchase price. I had a Prius, and it was great around town...better than the Jetta TDI. Smooth, quiet, and very efficient once the gas engine warmed up. But on the highway, it wasn't so great, and that's where I drove it all the time, every single day. The switch to the TDI was a no-brainer for me...low purchase price (it was a buyback car), great warranty, great fuel economy (although not quite as good as the Prius), and a MUCH better car for highway driving.

I've been doing a lot of reading on fuels over the past few months, and I think that renewable Diesel is very promising (specifically, fuels like Propel Diesel HPR), and could be the way that allow Diesels to continue to exist, especially in California. Less soot, which means fewer regens and longer DPF life, and lower NOx emissions, requiring less urea. But that's only if renewables that are compatible with DPF/Urea systems and high pressure fuel pumps & injectors can expand more broadly than their current market areas.

I'm hopeful that Diesel emissions tech will continue to improve, but I think that has to be paired with moving away from dino fuels and into renewables. So I'm glad to hear VW is talking about Diesels again.

Having said all that, I need to take a break from the internet and go pump some dead dinosaurs into my tank so I can get to work for the next couple days. Cheers!

 

[turbobrick240]

People who commute over a hundred miles each way to work will really benefit a lot from autonomous cars. That's a pretty solid chunk of the day to essentially be unproductive.

 

[oilhammer]

People who commute over a hundred miles each way to work will really benefit a lot from autonomous cars. That's a pretty solid chunk of the day to essentially be unproductive.

My daily drive consists of listening to audio books (I read a lot, this is just an additional way to do so) as well as a safety valve as a stress reliever (I usually take a long way home, with winding two lane roads).

Some of us actually enjoy driving... I know that sounds crazy to folks that don't.

And this weekend, like many (most) weekends, I took my son out for a two hour drive through the country.... just for fun. He enjoys it, too.

 

[turbobrick240]

My daily drive consists of listening to audio books (I read a lot, this is just an additional way to do so) as well as a safety valve as a stress reliever (I usually take a long way home, with winding two lane roads).
Some of us actually enjoy driving... I know that sounds crazy to folks that don't.
And this weekend, like many (most) weekends, I took my son out for a two hour drive through the country.... just for fun. He enjoys it, too.

Audio books are a good way to make the best of the situation. I like to think of myself as one of those driver's that really enjoys the driving experience- but when I take long road trips, I find myself appreciating the cruise control. When the day comes that cruise control can actually safely drive the car, I'll probably make use of it. Though the idea of cars with no steering wheel at all does make me cringe a bit.

 

[oilhammer]

I use cruise on long road trips for sure. A little bit miffed my Sprinter does not have cruise, and the issue of adding it seems to be a puzzle of equal difficulty as getting a straight answer on trailer wire harness installation. Both of which were items I picked on the one I ordered that I ended up having to give up waiting for.

My wife hardly ever uses cruise control, funny. We are taking the Sprinter on a cross country trip next year, maybe I will make her do a lot of the driving.

I may have gotten it installed by then, though.

 

[kjclow]

Yeah, it's pretty much just the Teslas people are lining up for. Still, over half a million people are plunking down a grand to get on the list. They'll dominate the EV market here for at least a few more years. The wait list (not necessarily wait time)will probably just get longer as more people see the model 3 on the road and realize what a great car it is.

Every auto production line gets shut down from time to time, especially in early production. It's only when Tesla does it that all the naysayers come out of the woodwork claiming the sky is falling. There are powerful forces opposing a quick transition to the EV. But Tesla has the right stuff to put them in the past.

Actually the one that's screaming the loudest right now is Elon Musk.

 

[turbobrick240]

Actually the one that's screaming the loudest right now is Elon Musk.

I think he'll be just fine. If he goes full Howard Hughes and secludes himself in a Vegas penthouse and stops cutting his hair- then I'd worry.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Are Americans willing to downsize their vehicles so they can be electrified? Unlikely for many generations to come in my view.

I know it's a rhetorical question, but I'll chime in anyway. I purchased a used Fiat 500e late last March to be my around-town vehicle. In the 12 months since then, I've put 14,000 miles on it. Its range is rated at ~84 miles, which can be as much as 110 miles in ideal conditions and as little as 60 miles on the coldest days of winter. A full recharge from dead empty to completely full takes 4 hours. Energy costs at home are coming in at about 2.5 cents per mile.

The Model 3, which we are now able to configure (just waiting on the Passat buyback date), will open us up to taking road trips like we've been doing in the TDIs for the better part of two decades. Jason and I are both really looking forward to it. We're planning on visiting Key West, New Orleans, The Black Hills and probably doing a cross-country trip within the first year or two.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

If they do hit this magical number, and if the subsidies are removed, and they are forced to stand on their own merits, THEN we'll see what Americans really think of them. I am still not convinced they will be embraced in any great numbers any time soon, even if the current offerings DO meet the requirements of a LOT of consumers. Again, they are not buying up Versas and Sentras in huge numbers, so why would they make the leap to a more expensive Leaf?

EVs seem to be gaining some popularity (in Quebec) with fairly sizeable subsidies. Hydro (aka electricity to you folks) is relatively cheap here, we export boatloads of electrons to the US

What people forget though is that in many places of the world, electricity comes from fossil fuels. So your EV still ends up being a "gas guzzler" in a way.

But here, we just have hydro dams (which still consume a lot of fossil fuels, judging by the sizeable truck and equipment fleet of Hydro-Quebec).

That said, I saw a Leaf today... being flat-bedded; I guess its owner ran out of "hydro"

So range anxiety is real. In my rural area, for me to even begin to consider an electric car for *one* of our two cars, I need real-world, all-weather, effective 300 km range. Enough to get me back and forth to Montreal, drive around the city for my errands, and drive home, leaving maybe 20-50 km of margin. Just going to choir rehearsal and back (or to one of the events we sing at), in Sherbrooke, would require 200 km+reserve. So far only the Bolt can provide that in the sub-50k price range (I'm talking pure electric), and it's not sub-50 by much and provides only a fraction of the utility and all-weather security of my new 4MOTION wagon for a full $20k more ($14k factoring in the subsidies).

I'd haver considered a Golf electric as a second car if it had 100 km more range than it currently does (about 200). Alas I don't have the capital necessary to buy one and save money...

 

[CrazyMonkey]

For the time being you might need both vehicles in your garage for functionality and redundancy: an EV and a diesel.

Problem solved

This is my plan. Once the Sportwagen is paid off, we'll start looking at the electric cars on the market to replace my wife's '08 Maxima. The Maxima used to be the family car that we used for almost everything (19 mpg on a typical tank, 28-29 mpg on a long trip). Then we got the Sportwagen and that's been the family car that we use for almost everything. According to fuelly.com, I am only doing 1/3 highway driving and getting just over 40 mpg (so cut fuel costs a ton). If we can get an electric with reasonable range (say 200-ish miles), we can use that for almost everything. Getting to Portland and back on a charge would be nice. The Sportwagen would then be our long distance car and the car I use to get to work when I don't ride my bike.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

People who commute over a hundred miles each way to work will really benefit a lot from autonomous cars. That's a pretty solid chunk of the day to essentially be unproductive.

You know what? I'm one of those 100mile/day commuters, and I don't want an autonomous car. To be blunt, I don't trust the software, and software is what I do for a living. I've seen enough interface mismatches, screwy design, and hole-ridden exception handling to convince me that self-driving cars probably can't be trusted for quite a while yet. Heck, a Mars probe managed to crash into the planet because one part of its software was written in meters while the other was in miles. Yes, it was a while ago, but you know what? There's still plenty of crazy/stupid in software today.

Or how about Toyota's little drive-by-wire incident a few years ago ("Toyota: Once You Drive One, You'll Never Stop!")? You want the folks who forgot to code the ECU to cut the accelerator if the brake is applied writing a self-drive program?

Sure, there's good software people out there, I work with people I'd trust to write something like that. But you know that old saying that "more than 50% of the people in the world are below average"? I'd say that the same's true of software, especially considering how many times someone throws in a quick patch to make a deadline and ends up leaving a hole or causing some other chaos down the road when someone else has to go in and do something else to it.

Ultimately, it boils down to this: Self-driving cars aren't really self-driving, the driving is really being done by the folks at the auto manufacturers who are writing the self-drive software.

Around here the general sentiment seems to be that we don't trust the dealers to service our cars properly. And yet people want to trust the manufacturers to drive them around on the roads "by proxy"??

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't keep working on it - it has a lot of merit, and there are plenty of folks it can help (seniors, the disabled, etc.). But right now I don't want it, I don't want it forced on me, and I don't expect to be changing my opinion any time soon.

Oh yeah - don't forget about how hack-prone cars are getting. Remember Batman Returns, when the penguin stuck a gizmo under the batmobile and siezed remote control of it? If nothing else, the computers in cars are nowhere near secure enough right now to be allowed to be in total control.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

You know what? I'm one of those 100mile/day commuters, and I don't want an autonomous car. To be blunt, I don't trust the software, and software is what I do for a living. I've seen enough interface mismatches, screwy design, and hole-ridden exception handling to convince me that self-driving cars probably can't be trusted for quite a while yet.

We've had "self-driving" or rather "self-flying" planes for quite a while now, and I'm still not certain I trust them:

787 Software reboot

 

[tadawson]

From the emissions standpoint, there might be hope. Looks like O'Bumbles pulled another violation of procedure to hammer in some absurd regulations on the way out the door, which are now being appropriately reviewed:

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...ons-standards-cars-and-light-trucks-should-be

 

[flee]

From the emissions standpoint, there might be hope. Looks like O'Bumbles pulled another violation of procedure to hammer in some absurd regulations on the way out the door, which are now being appropriately reviewed:
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...ons-standards-cars-and-light-trucks-should-be

Quoting Scruitt as a source of information is like quoting Drumph as a source of ethical behavior.

 

[tikal]

That's great to hear that you are happy with two sedans.
Unfortunately the masses in the US prefer larger vehicles that are not yet a good cost/benefit to be electrified.

Let me share a story that to me is indicative of how difficult is for Americans to downsize even a little bit. A few years ago a person who I know was looking for a new car to replace his wife's older Toyota Highlander (most likely the vehicle wasn't that old but that's besides the point). Knowing that this couple do not have younger children to carry around or other needs to have a large vehicle I did some research and suggested to him that, instead of getting another Highlander as they intended, to consider the Mazda CX-5 which according to Fuelly has a good chance of getting 28 MPG combined vs. the Highlander getting probably somewhere around 23 MPG. I realize is not a big jump but I thought something is something. After some time he told me they ended up getting a new Highlander as his wife 'is used to'. And we are talking about people who are supposedly concerned with the environment and are 'progressive'.

Folks, there are millions of cases such as this and it is not getting better :-( Imagine suggesting to this couple: "Oh, wait. Why are you buying a gasoline powered SUV when you can get a fabulous electrical small SEDAN for 'about' the same cost. Oh and no more oil changes!".

You think this is going to fly?

Oh, and if the fuel prices stay low and the CAFE standards are relaxed, I would see even less incentives for efficient vehicles such as light duty diesels, hybrids and/or EVs.

I know it's a rhetorical question, but I'll chime in anyway. I purchased a used Fiat 500e late last March to be my around-town vehicle. In the 12 months since then, I've put 14,000 miles on it. Its range is rated at ~84 miles, which can be as much as 110 miles in ideal conditions and as little as 60 miles on the coldest days of winter. A full recharge from dead empty to completely full takes 4 hours. Energy costs at home are coming in at about 2.5 cents per mile.
The Model 3, which we are now able to configure (just waiting on the Passat buyback date), will open us up to taking road trips like we've been doing in the TDIs for the better part of two decades. Jason and I are both really looking forward to it. We're planning on visiting Key West, New Orleans, The Black Hills and probably doing a cross-country trip within the first year or two.

 

[car54]

I am another one of those Americans who does not prefer a massive, bloated vehicle. Ive been commuting to work in my 2002 Jetta sedan or my 2000 Toyota echo. I also own a 2007 silverado 2500HD 6 liter gas that is used for hauling heavy loads or towing my boat/trailers.

The pickup will average 2000 miles a year or less.

I just bought a 2018 chevy volt to replace both the TDI and my toyota echo. I chose the Volt because I can do my daily commute on electricity alone (work is a 15 mile round trip) and I charge exclusively at work.

My volt sits unplugged at home and charges at work, which is a renewable energy power plant. My car is fueled by methane at the source, so zero transmission losses, 100% locally produced green energy generated from the decomposition of municipal solid waste in a landfill. We burn the methane for power before it gets a chance to escape into the environment and make the area smell like a landfill.

In 8 years the money I save on fuel alone will fully pay for the car. So far in under a month I have 1400 miles, 1100 of those are pure EV on free power. I never thought I'd say it, but buying a new car was the smartest thing I have done in years.

 

[RNDDUDE]

For the time being you might need both vehicles in your garage for functionality and redundancy: an EV and a diesel.

Problem solved

That is exactly what I have. I have the luxury, thanks to working all my life, of having separate vehicles suited for specific needs. My EV is for around town errands & commuting to work (70 miles round trip, free charging at work), my TDI Sportwagen is for trips and hauling stuff, my BMW 335i droptop is just for fun.

 

[soldierguy]

I am another one of those Americans who does not prefer a massive, bloated vehicle. Ive been commuting to work in my 2002 Jetta sedan or my 2000 Toyota echo. I also own a 2007 silverado 2500HD 6 liter gas that is used for hauling heavy loads or towing my boat/trailers.

The pickup will average 2000 miles a year or less.

I just bought a 2018 chevy volt to replace both the TDI and my toyota echo. I chose the Volt because I can do my daily commute on electricity alone (work is a 15 mile round trip) and I charge exclusively at work.

My volt sits unplugged at home and charges at work, which is a renewable energy power plant. My car is fueled by methane at the source, so zero transmission losses, 100% locally produced green energy generated from the decomposition of municipal solid waste in a landfill. We burn the methane for power before it gets a chance to escape into the environment and make the area smell like a landfill.

In 8 years the money I save on fuel alone will fully pay for the car. So far in under a month I have 1400 miles, 1100 of those are pure EV on free power. I never thought I'd say it, but buying a new car was the smartest thing I have done in years.

Good for you. That's great that the Volt is costing you so little to operate. Sounds like you're one of the few who makes car decisions based on facts & logic, rather than desire & emotion.

If I could charge at work, I would. There's some talk of putting in a solar farm where I work, to offset electricity consumption. If that happens, we might be able to slip in a few EV charging stations, in which case the Bolt would start to make sense for me, at least for my commuting. But it'd still be a problem as a weekend getaway vehicle, and if I went electric, I'd end up having a gas or diesel vehicle for weekend trips/vacations.

But I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[tikal]

Getting back on topic about the 'New VW diesel engine'. For VW to decide to bring it to the US will require the average fuel prices stay above $3/Gallon nationwide for a few years in a row. It can happen but it needs to be sooner than later in my view. Perhaps in the next five years or so to have a fighting chance.

 

[TDIMeister]

We intend to keep the two cars in our family fleet until impractical to fix. Both are coming along in miles - my wife's 2009 Dodge Grand Caravan has been remarkably problem free with its 418k km (!), and nothing will pry my pride and joy Audi from me with its 343k KM and counting, lifetime fuel consumption of 5.9 L/100km (now almost exclusively urban commuting) and overall condition that greatly belies its mileage and 20 years.

But, we have to consider the inevitable and the probable that we'd have to buy replacements for both. I am looking at PHEV/BEV options for her in a minivan or crossover (gasp, kick and gag) package for us to haul some occasional loads and there shall always be a Diesel in the driveway, just not a brand new one as I take a wait and see approach on the development front with some promising emission control tech.

Where I now live we have winter literally 6 months of the year with very heavy snowfall and poorly plowed roads, so AWD is a must for me. I actually rather like the Chevy Equinox TD, upcoming Hyundai Santa Fe CRDI and Transit Connect Eco Blue (but no AWD in the latter) but also thinking about the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, Ford Transit EV and Kia Niro PHEV - but again, none of the (PH)EV options have AWD.