New to me 98 Jetta TDI

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
I just purchased a 98 Jetta TDI that has been sitting for almost 12 years. Engine only has 122K miles and PO purchased upgraded chips for ECU and had injector tips replaced too.

I want to try to get it running then swap the whole engine/trans combo into my 80 Rabbit Truck.

Big thing that scares me with this engine is it has been sitting with the intake manifold removed. Hood was on the car and we live in Dry climate, but it does rain here occasionally and we do get front too.

Before I throw a wrench on the crank bolt and turn the engine over is there anything I should do? Will it hurt to throw some marvel mystery oil down the injector holes (injectors have been out for years too with paper stuffed in head).

He also has the injection pump resealed. It was put back on the car but not reconnected. There is a thing belt installed, but no idea if the pump was timed correctly on install.

Last big question for now is does anyone know if the Jetta uses an electric pump in the tank? Since car has been sitting so long I don't want to know what is in the fuel tank. Is it possible to just run a hose from a fuel can?

I have had many VWs over the past 30 years, but this will be my first TDI.

Thank you,
Mike
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Big question is, why was it taken off the road?

Since the injectors are out, can you peer inside with a bore scope? Obviously if you see rust, that’s not a good thing. Were the intake ports plugged with paper, rags, etc.?

Diesel, wd40 or any oil in the cylinders can only help. I’d try nudging the crank with a breaker bar and see what happens. Is there a timing belt on the engine? Don’t force anything.

There’s no in tank pump, and you can definitely gravity feed the pump, or run it off a can.

-Todd
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I reread your post. I’d verify the timing and toss a new belt on it, when you’re ready to run it. 5 years or 60k miles is the change interval.

-Todd
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Big thing I'd do is be sure to replace the timing belt ASAP. There is no in tank fuel pump on the mk3 car.
I'd check and see if it turns with a ratchet on the crank and check for rust in the cylinders. Other than that, replace the timing belt, put fresh fuel, oil and antifreeze and try it out.
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
Todd,

Thank you for the reply. The gentleman stated he took the car apart to have pump resealed and do upgrades. He said the injector tips are an upgrade with the ECU. The car also needed a heater core so the interior was completely torn apart and never fully put back together.

I think he may have had good intentions from the start, but probably got in over his head.

There was nothing in the intake ports, so that is the one big thing that worries me.
I can see if my friend still has access to a borescope.

I am wanting to try to start it with the timing belt that is on it to see if there are any other issues. Don't want to buy a ton of parts if the engine is bad.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Todd,

Thank you for the reply. The gentleman stated he took the car apart to have pump resealed and do upgrades. He said the injector tips are an upgrade with the ECU. The car also needed a heater core so the interior was completely torn apart and never fully put back together.

I think he may have had good intentions from the start, but probably got in over his head.

There was nothing in the intake ports, so that is the one big thing that worries me.
I can see if my friend still has access to a borescope.

I am wanting to try to start it with the timing belt that is on it to see if there are any other issues. Don't want to buy a ton of parts if the engine is bad.
I would not even try to start it with an old timing belt on it... Maybe for barring it over, but not actually starting it. If you don't want to be tons of money in, just get the belt and throw it on first. Even for that, a gates or something like that isn't very expensive. Much cheaper than a new head when the old belt lets go and bends the valves.
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
OK. So I will try to check for rust and replace timing belt before doing anything else with this car.
It looks like I will have to purchase some timing tools that are specific to this engine (cam lock and fuel pump pin, anything else?).

A couple more quick questions.

What is the largest opening in the head to try to look into the cylinder with a borescope?

In looking through the FAQ posts, is there a source for the pictures referenced in this post?

Or is there a good post of timing belt job that has pictures?
 

garciapiano

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
That DIY is fine. Timing tools are available from Metalnerd. You’ll also need a torque wrench.

Best place to put a scope in would be the glow plug holes.

The reality is that these engines are hard on their seals and rubber components even in normal service. Plan to replace EVERY rubber seal on the engine if it has been sitting for ten years plus because it WILL leak like a seive. Same thing with the cooling system, although that’s not strictly needed to get the car at least running.

The problem with just replacing the timing belt is that there is a high likelihood given the age of the car that you need to replace the oil seals behind the timing belt too. It’s not a huge deal of extra work, but the crank seal in particular needs a special tool to lock the crank in place so that you can properly loosen and torque the crank bolt. If you don’t replace the seals the first time, you’ll have leaks and you’ll have to do the belt again.

First, turn over the engine by hand with the valve cover removed to ensure that everything is moving and turning freely. The valve cover must be removed for the belt service anyway. You can then evaluate the condition of the cam and the hydraulic lifters. A SMALL AMOUNT of magic mystery oil in the cylinders dribbled in through the glow plug holes (and time for it to work) should help mitigate anything rusty or stuck. You should feel compression evenly. Turn the engine over 4 times at least.

The problem with just replacing the timing belt is that there is a high likelihood given the age of the car that you need to replace the oil seals behind the timing belt too. It’s not a huge deal of extra work, but the crank seal in particular needs a special tool to lock the crank in place so that you can properly loosen and torque the crank bolt.

Once the engine is determined to be good, I would check the injection pump. If it has a bunch of visible leaks and crud on the casing, chances are it needs to be re-sealed. The coolant hoses below the pump are likely compromised as well. The metal injector lines should be all intact and the #3 injector needs its wire intact as well.

I would then evaluate the electronics of the car to determine if the ECU is functional. Check for codes.

Beyond that, there isn’t much else you can determine without at least being able to crank the engine. The engine needs to run to complete the timing job which includes setting the injection timing of the pump.
 
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ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
If you can’t get a bore scope, just turn it over by hand after lubing the cylinders. If it goes over easy, that’s a good indicator of no rust. Install a new belt, set static timing, prime the oil pump and see if it’ll start off a can. I wouldn’t worry about the seals, until it starts and gets pulled from the donor. I’d think the injector hole would be larger than the GP hole.

No special tool is needed to remove the crank sprocket. I made one out of .25” steel, that bolts to the sprocket, and chocks itself to the rear of the block. I’ve also used a chunk of 2x4 to chock the #1 crank counter weight, to remove and properly stretch the bolt. The oil pan needs to come off, to do this.

-Todd
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
I know it has been a long time since I first posted this, but I finally made time this week to try to get the engine running. Took forever to get fuel into the pump (even using vacuum to pull fuel through). Then I almost gave up on pump actually sending fuel to injectors, but after tons of cranking the air finally bled out of the lines. Car starts and idles rough for 10-20 seconds then dies. Starts right up and does same exact thing. Throttle pedal does nothing. I know the vacuum lines need replacing so I will see if I can figure out the drawing and replace all of them.

I know vacuum leaks can keep a gas engine from idling. Is the TDI the same way?

Also, is it normal for throttle pedal to have no effect? I will check the wiring to see if something is unplugged.

But hey, after all these years it does start and run....at least for a few seconds at a time.
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
It starts fairly easy, just won't stay running. I was expecting to see a lot of smoke, but there is almost none.

I used all the correct tools to install a new timing belt.

Even though I was told the injection pump was pulled to be "resealed" I am not sure it is working properly.
I actually had to back flush it when trying to pull fuel into pump via vacuum.
Got lots of small black rubber looking pieces out of it. Onces they washed out it let me pull fuel all the way through.
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
That is always a possibility. Not even sure what they are or would be doing there if the pump was freshly re-sealed.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
If I were getting black rubber pieces out of the pump return line I wouldn't run it until I had dismantled it and cleaned / resealed it again.

Freshly resealed 12 years ago is not likely to be serviceable now unless the pump was stored with full inside. Even then it might not be workable.

Were the lines to the pump all connected (fuel supply / return) when you first got the car? If it was open to the elements that would explain the inop condition or lack of response to pedal movement.

Steve
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
Do you have a Vag-Com? Is it throwing any codes? What is the IP voltage limits? Can you get a timing graph to pop up, 10 seconds should be enough time. What is the IQ?

I’d pop the top off the Quantity Adjuster and have a look inside regardless.

Is your foot on the brake during this? The brake being depressed kills the fuel pedal. but it sounds more like you’re running out of fuel.

How did you ‘back flush’ it?
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
The pump was bolted to the engine but had no lines connected to it. The black bits that came out were from the fuel inlet. They were pushed out when I pumped diesel into the fuel return side of the pump.

The pump definitely sat for many many years exposed to the hot dry elements of AZ.

The car is currently in the back lot of a friend's shop. I didn't have Vag-Com with me when I was messing with trying to get it running. Sounds like I need to pull the pump and send it off for reseal/repair.

Any shops better than others to send to? I understand I can probably reseal it myself but at this point in my life I have more money than time and would rather pay a shop to make sure it is done correctly.

It seems the engine is good as there are no strange noises when it is running, so I will invest a few more dollars to try to get it running correctly.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
The pump was bolted to the engine but had no lines connected to it. The black bits that came out were from the fuel inlet. They were pushed out when I pumped diesel into the fuel return side of the pump.

The pump definitely sat for many many years exposed to the hot dry elements of AZ.

The car is currently in the back lot of a friend's shop. I didn't have Vag-Com with me when I was messing with trying to get it running. Sounds like I need to pull the pump and send it off for reseal/repair.

Any shops better than others to send to? I understand I can probably reseal it myself but at this point in my life I have more money than time and would rather pay a shop to make sure it is done correctly.

It seems the engine is good as there are no strange noises when it is running, so I will invest a few more dollars to try to get it running correctly.
Return or supply...makes no difference, there isn't supposed to be anything like that in the pump and operating it with foreign matter inside is a risky thing IMO. You don't want to damage your IP in any way, especially if you have no backup pumps around.

With unsealed fuel inlet / outlet they tend to go south pretty quick but where you are is dryer so that's actually a better situation maybe, then again you might have more dust too.

It's unfortunate that the prior owner didn't cap the ports to the IP...that would have helped you out.

As a side note, this is not a difficult pump to reseal, the problems come after when you're trying to set it up on the car. You will likely have to do some hammer modding techniques to get the car to run to the point where you can use Vag-Com to setup things properly.

Keep at it though...and post up some photos. I would imagine that despite the paint being a little knackered from the sun / heat that probably the body is without any rust!!

Good luck!

Steve
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
Well, maybe I will look into re-sealing the pump myself. Don't want to spend as much to have the pump serviced as I did for the whole car.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Well, maybe I will look into re-sealing the pump myself. Don't want to spend as much to have the pump serviced as I did for the whole car.
There are some tutorials online to help, but you'll want to prepare for it as well.

Good luck

Steve
 

MAtkisson

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Location
Tucson, AZ
TDI
98 Jetta TDI
So, I managed to pick up a used pump that is claimed to be non leaking and working when recently removed to go mTDI. It definitely had a lot of fuel in it when shipped as it soaked the box. USPS reboxed it en route. Had only the top of the original box that was clearly discolored from fuel soak.

I plan to swap this pump on and then reseal the pump on the car now. I have a couple questions about the pump swap.

Does the pump pulley need a puller to remove? Do I set the pump body in the middle of the adjustment range (slotted pump body)? I plan to use VAG COM once the "new" pump is installed.

The pump on the car now was bolted on by PO but never connected. I installed a new timing belt using the cam and pump locks. I have no idea where it is on the adjustment range. You think the pump timing can be far enough off to act like running out of fuel and no throttle reaction?

Not sure when I will have time to swap pumps but want to make sure I have all the tools I need on hand when I do.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
So, I managed to pick up a used pump that is claimed to be non leaking and working when recently removed to go mTDI. It definitely had a lot of fuel in it when shipped as it soaked the box. USPS reboxed it en route. Had only the top of the original box that was clearly discolored from fuel soak.
Your seller should have sealed the pump (capped the ports) before wrapping and bagging it. I'm surprised the USPS went to the effort of doing what the did, you're not supposed to ship anything with fuel spilling out and that's what plastic ziplock bags are for too...as protection.

I plan to swap this pump on and then reseal the pump on the car now. I have a couple questions about the pump swap.

Does the pump pulley need a puller to remove? Do I set the pump body in the middle of the adjustment range (slotted pump body)? I plan to use VAG COM once the "new" pump is installed.

The pump on the car now was bolted on by PO but never connected. I installed a new timing belt using the cam and pump locks. I have no idea where it is on the adjustment range. You think the pump timing can be far enough off to act like running out of fuel and no throttle reaction?

Not sure when I will have time to swap pumps but want to make sure I have all the tools I need on hand when I do.
Yes, you will need a puller of some sort to remove the sprocket so you can take the existing pump off. Before you remove the pump you'll want to move cylinder 1 back to TDC and install the cam plate and make sure the IP sprocket is locked as well (to loosen the nut). You're basically going to have to redo the timing belt procedure again, just make sure the crank is in the correct position when you undo everything.

Best to mount the pump in the center of the adjustment range. If it was a recent removal for m-tdi then it should be fine to get it running and then use VCDS to find tune the timing. If it's sat on a shelf open, which I hope it hasn't, then you might have some difficulties.

That it was shipped without being properly sealed doesn't give me a lot of confidence about what you've got, but since you have it go ahead and mount it anyway.

Good luck

Steve
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
If he capped the lines it would have helped immensely. USPS wants them empty, that's why I said I was surprised they reboxed it.

short section of rubber hose with a plug in it tends to work best for that stuff.

Good luck getting it installed and going!

Steve
 
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