New Timing Belt - Hard Starting When Cold

KentSzabo

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
Pine, Colorado
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Mojave Beige Metallic
For 80512 miles and 3.25 years my Golf TDI would start within a second of turning the starter. I put an Upsolute chip in at 500 miles exactly 3 years ago. Set the EGR to 33768 and adaptive timing to 33068 with the VAG-COM. Never had any trouble with cold starting until after the Timing Belt change last Friday. Saturday morning had to crank 15-20 seconds plus advance throttle slightly to get it to start. This morning at 45 degrees had to turn it 20 - 30 seconds plus press on pedal to ge it to go.
When VW was replacing the TB the Tech called me and asked if it was chipped and why it was so advanced, I told him about adaptation block 4, but apparently he did not understand except to say that it was too advanced. I am wonderiong if he mechanically retarded it which is causing the starting problem now. On the adaptive 4 block I rolled the setting back down to 32768, I probably should have run it up to the max of 33268 which is about 5 degrees advance. Does anyone know what I should be seeing for VAG-COM timing numbers? Should I attempt to mechanically advance the injector timing? I am at a loss as to what to do, I really don't want to take it back to VW and maybe get it screwed up even more.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
look in Group 000 of basic settings and make sure 2 (vertically) and 9 (horizontally) create a point somwhere in the grey shaded area of the chart below:



Once this is determined we can then tell you, if necessary, how to adjust the pump timing.


And we may want to put the dynamic timing bac to 32768 for the time being
 

KentSzabo

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
Pine, Colorado
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Mojave Beige Metallic
I happened to be on the phone with Andy from Ross-tech as I needed to re-register my vag-com. We went through the 000 basic settings and ran the timing graph. The reading was not even on the graph, and field 2 showed zero, field 9 was 165. Andy said the mechanical timing was extremely retarded, and needed to be advanced.
 

KentSzabo

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
Pine, Colorado
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Mojave Beige Metallic
As a temporary work around until I find out how to mechanically advance the timing I have set my adaptive 04 to 33268 which is supposed to be +5 degrees, also I will plug in the oil pan heater to attempt to overcome the cool 45 degree nights.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
It is easy to change the timing mechanically.

remove the engine cover and timing belt cover.

loosent the three bolts on the face of the injection pump pulley.

rotate the large center nut clockwise (in the direction of the engine's natural rotation) JUST A HAIR. it is a very very minute adjustment. In your case it may need to be substatial over all but I suggest many small increments of movement rather than one large one.

then, retighten the three bolts and start the engine.

follow the timing check instuctions to determine weather you've effected a change.

repeat process untill the point is in the middle of the graph. (and if you happen to go too far in the advance direction, counterclocwise is retard, seems obvious right?)

In some cases, block 2 reading 0 could also mean the timing is whacked out advanced, but a safe initial asumption is that it is in fact retarded
 

KentSzabo

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
Pine, Colorado
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Mojave Beige Metallic
Thanks for the info, my Bentley manual says follow the instructions for removing the injector pump, ie. remove intercooler line, fuel lines, etc.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
no need to do either of those things. removing the lines would simply make it hard to start, and is only pertainant to the older model diesel that require rotation of the actual pump body (and even then, all you have to do is loosen and retighten the nuts once you've set the timing.)

Kent has a 2002 and 2003 both of which were shipped from the factory with the new non stretch bolts
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
no need to do either of those things. removing the lines would simply make it hard to start, and is only pertainant to the older model diesel that require rotation of the actual pump body (and even then, all you have to do is loosen and retighten the nuts once you've set the timing.)

Kent has a 2002 and 2003 both of which were shipped from the factory with the new non stretch bolts
And when the pump body is turned on those engines, the engine should not be running. Tolerances are too close to be possibly tweaking the pump body and have it seize on ya while the engine is running.

2002, 2003 = non TTY bolts. Got it.

All bolts = stretch bolts.
 

KentSzabo

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
Pine, Colorado
TDI
Golf GLS, 2002, Mojave Beige Metallic
Thanks for the info RUNONBEER, I got it to (2) 58 and (9) 135 I my first attempt after turning the nut about 5 degrees. The only pain in the butt are the lower timing belt cover clips, I didn't now there were two of them. I backed the adaptaion #04 back to 32768 before beginning. The graph shows the timing in the upper 3/4 of the top line of the graph, although that is a little high I guess it is probably ok as this vehicle rarely goes below 5500 feet and usually stays in the 8000 - 9000 foot range.
 
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