New Stage 3 Cam :D

[Mk3TdiTim]

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[PRA4WX]

I ordered one but they sent the stg2 by mistake so really don't have much to add. I added some uprated double valve springs in preparation and that's about all i did. I should also add that its going in a 1Z so maybe even further unrelated-although it is the ALH cam i'm to be using.

 

[GT TDI Golf]

Just placed my order for one and if all goes well I'll have it installed the weekend after next. The reason no one has feedback is because no one has one yet. Can't wait to try it out!!

 

[shortysclimbin]

We have been selling cams with 260/260 11mm lift and 38mm base circle sizes for a while.. This would require head work to fit, and puts down substancial power incomparison to drop in cams. Ask around about the tdimeister cams here.

I do not know what the new stage 3/4 cams have to offer or the variations on the market, but hopefully you can get some legimate data from the vendors on them to help you out. We are just finishing up a head with our oversized valves and tdimiester camshaft for another customer, most are extatic when they get them fitted properly.

 

[JFettig]

We have been selling cams with 260/260 11mm lift and 38mm base circle sizes for a while.. This would require head work to fit, and puts down substancial power incomparison to drop in cams. Ask around about the tdimeister cams here.

Here is my beef with saying stuff like this
people are always quoting "our cams put down some significant power gains over the others"... so show me the proof!
anyone who's installed a tdimeister cam hasn't compared it to any other head to head, no-one has ever posted any proof.
Anyone who has installed it has also done a significant amount of other work at the same time

I'm not saying that your product isn't superior, I'm just saying.

Hell, andy2 is running a stock ALH cam at 377whp

 

[GT TDI Golf]

We have been selling cams with 260/260 11mm lift and 38mm base circle sizes for a while.. This would require head work to fit, and puts down substancial power incomparison to drop in cams. Ask around about the tdimeister cams here.

I'm not sure what the specs are on the cam but Paul did tell me that it didn't need any clearancing of the head or upgraded valve springs. Its a drop-in the same as the stage 2. I hope that is still the case. I don't want to go in the motor at all. I'm just optimizing parts when they are easier to replace. Timing belt is due so its a "while I'm there I might as well upgrade it" thing. Just looking for the most bang for my buck.

Agreed with JFettig "put up or shut up". To much mudslinging around here. Let the results speak for themselves.

 

[madcowintucson]

i have the colt stage 2 cam and i cant say i could tell a power increas. basically at some point increasing lift is useless but duration could change things. the heads flow like crap and i wasnt able to do a direct before and after comparison. i got the double valve springs, black nitrided lifters and viton oil seals. had frank rebuild the head. then i took mine to a shop and had the whole thing disassembled and cryo/heat treaded and reassembled. so far no issues but i am slightly worried about the cam lobes appearence. anyhow, all in all i probably would should have stuck with the factory cam and upgraded other things for the money.

 

[diesel-dave]

i have the colt stage 2 cam and i cant say i could tell a power increas. basically at some point increasing lift is useless but duration could change things. the heads flow like crap and i wasnt able to do a direct before and after comparison. i got the double valve springs, black nitrided lifters and viton oil seals. had frank rebuild the head. then i took mine to a shop and had the whole thing disassembled and cryo/heat treaded and reassembled. so far no issues but i am slightly worried about the cam lobes appearence. anyhow, all in all i probably would should have stuck with the factory cam and upgraded other things for the money.

my stage 2 colt cam install wiped my sachs g60 clutch out, second gear slip, and all others but first, and this is regular driving not abuse
mine made a good increase, but then again i have other mods that help too.
whitbread HAD dyno numbers look them up.

 

[diesel-dave]

So do others agree with this? is it not worth $500 or so for a larger cam and lifters? I would hate to install it and spend all that money and be completely dissapointed... I plan on installing a lift pump at the same time... is that very noticable? also when i did my head studs I noticed the coating was worn off all the cam lobes but i dont know how much they were really worn... does anyone else with a ALH notice cam lobe wear? i have 180 k miles

Id talk to whitbread too, but a lift pump and colt cam will be a noticable difference

im running both, big nozzles too.

 

[loudspl]

Big cams don't net a huge power gain with these engines.
They are a good breathing mod, but have realistic expectations..

Go big on fuel, turbo, and/or N20 and you will get more results for your money

Whitbread is in Lima. Close to you. He does a lot of work on these cars

 

[Got Bearings?]

Big cams don't net a huge power gain with these engines.
They are a good breathing mod, but have realistic expectations..

Go big on fuel, turbo, and/or N20 and you will get more results for your money

IMHO, you won't get good results from a bigger cam on a stock unported head. I've read many times that the stock head port casting leaves a lot to be desired. So no matter how big your cam is, the head is only flow so much. As the saying goes, you can't 10 pounds of sh!t in a 5 pound bag.

A better approach is to port the head and match the cam to head flow. Think of it as a combo.. as they complement each other.

 

[Whitbread]

IMHO, you won't get good results from a bigger cam on a stock unported head. I've read many times that the stock head port casting leaves a lot to be desired. So no matter how big your cam is, the head is only flow so much. As the saying goes, you can't 10 pounds of sh!t in a 5 pound bag.

A better approach is to port the head and match the cam to head flow. Think of it as a combo.. as they complement each other.

Exactly! The stock heads are terrible....so are stock turbos. A cam with a stock turbo isn't going to net a whole lot as the turbo is the bottleneck.

Airflow mods build on each other. A car with a tune, cam, and nozzles isn't going to see a big gain from a cam. Now a car with a bigger turbo, 11+mm pump, big nozzles, fmic, intake manifold, and open exhaust will see a noticeable gain of 8-10hp and ~15ft/lbs as I saw on a back to back dyno. Not bad at all for a drop in cam on a 1.9L motor in my book. Add headporting, hello another 15+hp and 20-30+ ft/lbs. IIRC, OC TDI picked up even larger gains from porting on his PD build.

To show what extreme airflow mods do, here's NoJoke's twin turbo wagon on the expressway at 80mph in 6th gear on level ground (tach is low by about ~250rpms). The egt's will run 600-650F all day long on the expressway and maybe hit 750F on hills. Today in 35F weather, they were only at 610F at 80mph.

 

[shortysclimbin]

Wow Matt that is great! I am assuming Nojoke (Guss's Car) is still running the TDIMEISTER cam and my oversized valves?

FYI for all the "put up and shut up" I would love to get a dyno but have not had anyone willing to swap cams out yet; Any takers? As mentioned putting a huge cam on a stock motor will not show the gain potential because it will be choked out by the remaining parts in the system. The best apples to apples would be to get someone with a heavy modified car to swap to an oem cam to see the difference. The same thing goes for all of these "drop in" Cams. Ask the designers for dyno's before and after and general specs. From what I have seen is not many change a cam out alone when going that route. This makes it harder to guess power level changes from any camshaft.

 

[GT TDI Golf]

I would love to do a back to back comparison test but the one dyno place I know of will no longer do diesel's. I dyno'd my car there several years ago when I only had nozzles as an upgrade and I put down, IIRC 98whp and 237ft-lbs and that was with PP502 that weren't calibrated.

My setup is different now: 1856 turbo from Kerma, Malone custom tune, 2.5" TB exhaust, CAI w/ OMI, Eurojet FMIC, and still have the uncalibrated PP502's. SPEC clutch w/ lw flywheel.

I have a PD lift pump waiting to be installed and have the cam ordered. I would love to port my head but right now this is my daily driver and can't justify the money for it. Any extra money goes to my Corrado restoration. Anyone who has heard of a Corrado knows how expensive they can be so I'm just doing bolt ons until all I have left is actual engine work.

 

[foxracer1]

I will be breaking in my AHU with stock cam. Few months later i plan to run a different cam. I have a ported head but stock valves Rosten rods, ASV, titan 764, 11mm etc large WG turbo but i also have a VNT2052 on the way so turbo choice is still in the air(may not be either one of these either).

I may be able to swing a dyno @ UNOH in lima same place Matt has gone. I'd have new cam ready to go with new black lifters. I would swap from stock to "race" cam right after and dyno "race" that same day.

I've also been playing with my own cam specs cause no one will tell you their cam specs. If i go buy any small block chevy LS1 ford cam i can find valve event timing lift, seat to seat timing timing @ .050 in for that cam. These engines have very tight clearances and valve event timing is crucial to know. I like to know what i'm sticking in my engine.

Once i figure out all i want to know i will post the specs of the cam i run vs stock cam. This will not happen tomorrow this is a very long term project. But i will update this or start a new thread.

 

[Whitbread]

I've also been playing with my own cam specs cause no one will tell you their cam specs.

If you call Geoff, he'll tell you. I just don't remember them all off the top of my head.

 

[loudspl]

I'm curious how much difference going from a stage II cam to say this new stage IV would be on a ported head?
10hp maybe?

Looks like the stg. IV is $450. That's something to consider

It will be good to see these swapped out in a controlled environment, same test platform, same day, minimize variables
Head to head. Maybe Colt vs. Dave's cam vs. Frank's....

 

[foxracer1]

Thanks Matt I will call Geoff and talk to him.

If you call Geoff, he'll tell you. I just don't remember them all off the top of my head.

 

[andy2]

Here is my beef with saying stuff like this
people are always quoting "our cams put down some significant power gains over the others"... so show me the proof!
anyone who's installed a tdimeister cam hasn't compared it to any other head to head, no-one has ever posted any proof.
Anyone who has installed it has also done a significant amount of other work at the same time

I'm not saying that your product isn't superior, I'm just saying.

Hell, andy2 is running a stock ALH cam at 377whp

The funny part is that we still have other bottlenecks holding us back from making more power.

 

[COMP461]

It’s real humorous when someone says a performance cam doesn’t make power in a diesel. It’s the same as saying a billet set of connecting rods doesn’t make power.

Truth is both statements are true.
Cam and rods don’t in and of themselves make power. What a cams does do, is allow you to make power by allowing the window in to the combustion chamber that air flows, open wider, and longer.


first To establish my credential’s I have been designing high performance cams for 25 years, and cams for diesels for the last 10 year. I have sold over 4000 cams for Cummins and Duramax engines. Diesels can’t get enough airflow, no matter how good the head, or cam, so any improvement in the cam is good.

The next silly deal is when a person says that a stock cam is good enough. Any OEM builds a cam for the least amount of trouble. Short, easy on the ramps and little lift beyond what’s minimally needed to make rated power.

I have many hours of time on the engine dyno helping to develop power in many different programs. This includes diesels. I know what a diesel likes and on a street engine more is better within reason. Lift is not important if you don’t have a head that works “flows “up at a higher lift. Leaving the intake open 10 more degrees is dramatic on volumetric efficiently. this is evedent on the CFM numbers from the air hat

When designing a cams program, I don’t look at overlap, intake center line, or lobe separation angles. Those terms are nothing but yardsticks for layman to compare cam profiles.

There are 4 events on a cam that matter , open of the exhaust , close of the exhaust , open of the intake and close of the intake.


Rule 1 Diesels do not like both valves open at the same time period. OEM does this for passive EGR.
Rule 2 the exhaust valve must close at around, or shortly after TDC. Set this in stone.
Rule 3 the intake valve should open when the exhaust is fully closed. See rule one if you don’t agree
Rule 4 the closing of the intake valve is open for discussion. The poorer the intake ports, the longer you can leave it open. The higher the intended rpm, the longer you can leave it open.

So in summary, if you put a cam in and do not change any other parameters. You will get little, if nothing in return on a dyno. What little you see is the engines ability to pump air more efficiently and get up on the power curve quicker. What you will get is a reduction in EGT’s and spool time. With that reduction in EGT’s you can now put more fuel in it and here is where the power comes from.
This isn’t magic, it’s a just math.

 

[COMP461]

And to answer the question. The colt cams stage 3 cam is a great grind , the specs are right in there with what I would do. The work that Geoff dose is very professional.

 

[resto1975]

The one thing that i would pay attention too is how the more aggressive cams effect dynamic CR, mine is a PITA to start on very cold days some of that is the piston mods but the overlap on the cam also plays a its part.

 

[b5converison]

resto1975

what specs are u running ?

 

[COMP461]

One more diesel cam myth
Ruff idle will never happen with a diesel cam, there is no fuel in suspension to cause it. I can give you the long explanation, but this is the bottom line.

 

[vwdsmguy]

Stage 3 Colt cam

I just installed mine [3 that is] today. It did require a little grinding relief of the lifter bores. As the peak of the cam comes toward the edge of the lifter bore there must be a little alum removed to clear the outer 25% of the cam lobes. The center of each lobe [looking accrossed it] clears the bores OK, but not the outer edges. Take off the valve cover and you will what I mean at the lobe-bore intersection. It does give a nice boost in the midrange.
The lift is about .050" more, but strangely the lobe shape looks looks just like the stocker.

 

[joelp34252]

One more diesel cam myth
Ruff idle will never happen with a diesel cam, there is no fuel in suspension to cause it. I can give you the long explanation, but this is the bottom line.

Greg; Am anxiously waiting for you to get one of these engines on a pump and document what modified cams do on these engines. When I see cams for sale called stage one,two,three that have not even been tested in an engine it makes me wonder. Science will get you only so far, testing is where the rubber meets the road. I have little experience with diesels but have learned a little about engines drag racing Harleys for 25 years.

 

[resto1975]

resto1975

what specs are u running ?

The BMM pistons started out at 18.5:1 and with the relief mods are down at 17.5:1 and with my cam factored in my dymanic CR is probably as low as 16:1 or lower at this point my maths fails me. I am going to pull the head soon and i will take a proper set of measurements then.