New Polo confirmed for the USA, with TDI

[wolfskin]

Mazda's Sky-D is not in any product yet. So you can't really compare it to stuff you actually CAN buy.

And besides, VAG never seems to be going for maximum hp output from a given displacement.

VAG seems to go for FE and durability and leave it up to aftermarket tuners to crank up the hp, for whomever so desires.
It may be why VAG TDIs are such notoriously good candidates for remapping. The factory mappings are conservative.

If I pulled the back seat bottom out of the beetle,...

If I did that, I'd have up to 1.5 cubic meters (53 cu.ft.) of contiguous cargo volume at my disposal. I did transport 3.5m (138 in) long copper pipes inside the car with all doors closed.

The car is essentially a Polo variant.

 

[Dean]

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/polo/2012/

 

[kjclow]

Let's hope the diesel engine is added sooner rather than later. My daughter said she was thinking of a Yaris the other day. I almost chocked. Told her to hold on and maybe VWOA would bring the Polo. She is graduating from college in a couple of weeks and I would like to see her wait for the best new car she can afford.

 

[donDavide]

Let's hope the diesel engine is added sooner rather than later. My daughter said she was thinking of a Yaris the other day. I almost chocked. Told her to hold on and maybe VWOA would bring the Polo. She is graduating from college in a couple of weeks and I would like to see her wait for the best new car she can afford.

Why not a hi-quality used car? Much more car for the money.

 

[wolfskin]

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/polo/2012/

Unavoidably... the stone-age 1.4 gasser. There you go, VW! Crappy power, crappy FE, but at least it's cheap.
(I was hoping they would dignify the US market for the 1.2TSI )

 

[German_1er_diesel]

Unavoidably... the stone-age 1.4 gasser. There you go, VW! Crappy power, crappy FE, but at least it's cheap.
(I was hoping they would dignify the US market for the 1.2TSI )

It's Edmunds' educated guess - They'd probably rather put the 2.slow in instead, since that's already certified for the US

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Why not a hi-quality used car? Much more car for the money.

Used TDIs up here are no bargain. For example, found a used 2006 in the local classifieds with 345,000 km. Asking price is $8400. For that price I could get a used 2007 Rabbit with under 100,000 km. A used 2006 Jetta TDI with 66,000 km is $17k.

 

[kjclow]

Why not a hi-quality used car? Much more car for the money.

My father's old adage, "when you buy a used car, you're buying someone else's trouble." I am sure that he was not the orginator of that saying and I have to say I've been pretty lucky with the used cars I've bought, but at a teacher's salary, she needs to purchase the best vehicle for the money. That include the anticipated vehicle life. A diesel should give her many many years of satisfaction. Plus, if she get tired of it, she can sell it to her younger sister, or me.

 

[wantatdi2011]

i am looking to buy 2011 golf tdi but with polo on the horizon, i might rethink...plus, maybe vw has sorted out the HPFP issues for 2012 models

 

[rotarykid]

i am looking to buy 2011 golf tdi but with polo on the horizon, i might rethink...plus, maybe vw has sorted out the HPFP issues for 2012 models

That lightcoming from in the tunnel might be a train , not a Polo for the US market .


It might be couple of years before , if we ever see the Polo in the US . And then not with any TDI for at least the first couple of years in the US .

You want a Golf TDI buy one , don't wait or count on a Polo TDI ever being sold here .

 

[blacktux]

Instead of the Polo, why not a TDI BlueMotion in a Golf size?


Talking to some people that come into the dealership I work at, that been across the pond, have said the Polo is waay too tiny for here in the US.

 

[donDavide]

Instead of the Polo, why not a TDI BlueMotion in a Golf size?


Talking to some people that come into the dealership I work at, that been across the pond, have said the Polo is waay too tiny for here in the US.

Why instead of?? Why not both? Blue Motion Polo, Blue motion Golf, Regular Polo TDi and regular Golf TDi. We should have it all.

 

[kjclow]

Talking to some people that come into the dealership I work at, that been across the pond, have said the Polo is waay too tiny for here in the US.

The number of yaris, versa, scion, fits, etc, I see on the road tells me that there is a small car market that polo would sell nicely into. Not everyone needs a suburban and some people are realizing it.

 

[donDavide]

The number of yaris, versa, scion, fits, etc, I see on the road tells me that there is a small car market that polo would sell nicely into. Not everyone needs a suburban and some people are realizing it.

Thursday alone I saw 6 Fits on one block (3 parked and 3 drove by) and I must have seen 10-12 tha after noon.and quite a few of the others.

 

[German_1er_diesel]

Instead of the Polo, why not a TDI BlueMotion in a Golf size?


Talking to some people that come into the dealership I work at, that been across the pond, have said the Polo is waay too tiny for here in the US.

Hm... The Polo is as large as the A3 Golf. Was that way too tiny?

 

[woofie2]

Hm... The Polo is as large as the A3 Golf. Was that way too tiny?

Way bigger than a Yogo or Smart Car, about the same size as the Fit or Yaris, so it would be about right in the "upper lower class" car range.

 

[rotarykid]

It's not that there isn't a market for them , but are Americans willing to pay for them ??? The most efficient ones like the Polo & Lupo Bluemotions have break even prices in the high $30s to mid 40sk . How of many of those here in the US are willing to pay more for a 70 mpgUS Polo TDI than what is charged for a Passat here ???? Not many unless we get a sustained $5-7 a gal and more . That is the main problem keeping them out of the US car market . Americans see a small car and think cheap in cost & price which isn't the case on any of the really high mpg achievers .

VW & Audi are doing what they think they can afford to do here with the Golf , Jetta , Jetta wagon , A3 and the coming Passat TDIs . They all use the same 2.0 L diesel engine which is really the only way they can afford to try to sell these here .

I'm sure VW/Audi could sell the A2 & Polo here but the bottom price range model of a Polo & A2 bottoming out at say $29,949-$32,942 for a gasser how many would they sell ?????? And in the TDI versions if they use one of the 3 cyl engines the price would likely run another $2-3k extra putting the sticker just short of $35k-$38k+ respectively .

These prices are real folks , how many here are willing to still click on I want one of these on the question of would you buy one of these if given the opportunity knowing how much it would have to cost to be sold here ??????????? Short of real CAFE pressures that are high enough to require their sale to meet required ratings like we had in the early 80s they just aren't going to be sold here .

You ever want to see these models here push for CAFE to increased to 40 or higher mpgUS now . That pressure being applied to car makers fleets mpgs CAFE is the only way we will ever see them here . The small amount of pressure applied by our easy to meet CAFE today is the reason for all the auto diesel and hybrid offerings today . The coming miniscule increases in CAFE starting in 2012 are the only reason we will continue to see any diesels offerings here or in greater numbers when that comes about .

 

[German_1er_diesel]

I'm sure VW/Audi could sell the A2 & Polo here but the bottom price range model of a Polo & A2 bottoming out at say $29,949-$32,942 for a gasser how many would they sell ?????? And in the TDI versions if they use one of the 3 cyl engines the price would likely run another $2-3k extra putting the sticker just short of $35k-$38k+ respectively .

These prices are real folks , how many here are willing to still click on I want one of these on the question of would you buy one of these if given the opportunity knowing how much it would have to cost to be sold here ???????????

Um... I really doubt a Polo Bluemotion would cost that much if sold in the US. It's a smaller, simpler car than a Golf TDI. No independent rear suspension, only 3 cylinders and a 5-speed in the BM. You are somehow arguing it would, if imported to America, somehow become a lot more expensive than a Golf.

Here's a Golf 2.0 TDI with halfway comparable equipment to the American-spec 2.0 TDI (Highline, RCD510, iPod interface, cruise control, bluetooth):

Here's a Polo Bluemotion equipped comparably (RCD510, iPod interface, bluetooth, side curtain airbags, cruise is standard on the bluemotion, heated seats):

-> The Polo only costs 71% of the Golf 2.0 TDI, comparably equipped.

 

[German_1er_diesel]

...and here's a base, Golf with a naturally aspirated 1.4L 80hp gas engine and equivalent equipment to the Polo:

-> A Polo Bluemotion, adjusted for equipment, costs exactly the same as a Golf with the cheapest gas engine.

 

[rotarykid]

20k Euros ~ 25k USd and that is before any emissions or crash/safety changes to meet US spec . I didn't just pull my numbers out of thin air but was told by someone I know that knows what she is talking about . She told me a few years ago that it cost on average at least $5k-7k minimum per unit to bring something not designed for the US market up to DOT and EPA spec , more to meet CARB spec to sale here . Most of the time at least a car similar has already meet at least some of the specs for sale here . This car is a class of vehicle VWAG has never been designed for sale here in any configuration .

In the US all cars are now or will be soon required to have traction control and ABS that meets US DOT spec not EU tests of any sort . And all models sold in the US have been required to have US DOT spec air bags for close 20 years now , a problem that anyone that has ever tried to import a car gray market knows very well . Just because this model may come with air bags as an option in the EU countries in no way means those air bags are US DOT tested , comparable or certifiable . This has been an issue for years that our air bag requirements are different than EU requirements . More money to the bottom line ..........not included in the EU price you quoted .

Do any of the engine options in the thing have a previous EPA or CARB certification ??????? If not VW must start from scratch $$$$$$$ on each engine option they decide to offer .

Every part on the car must be certified to meet DOT certifications of all sorts . And on a model never designed to be sold here full of parts not US DOT certified those tests can cost a fortune . AT least if it's a model that was sold here previously certified for US sale they can just update most of those certifications . But on this thing it will be for the most part all new in every part used .

So just quoting what it costs today in an EU country , especially on a model never designed or certified for sale is less than useless on what it would cost to bring to sale in our market .

 

[German_1er_diesel]

20k Euros ~ 25k USd

1st: Germans, as opposed to Americans, expect to never pay close to list price. So a realistic transaction price would be 17,500€ maybe. This includes 19% VAT. So a realistic "export" price would be 14,705€.

and that is before any emissions or crash/safety changes to meet US spec . I didn't just pull my numbers out of thin air but was told by someone I know that knows what she is talking about . She told me a few years ago that it cost on average at least $5k-7k minimum per unit to bring something not designed for the US market up to DOT and EPA spec , more to meet CARB spec to sale here .

So how is it possible to sell the Golf in the US then? By your logic, a US-spec Golf TDI would be $46,000. (European price including VAT converted into USD plus $7,000)
The only potential difference here could be that the Golf has the requirements of the US-spec crash tests baked into the structure, while the Polo might not. But many vehicles get converted to US-spec standards in the middle of their life. Think Ford Transit Connect. And if the current Polo isn't engineered to meet both US and Euro standards, the next one might be.

 

[rotarykid]

1st: Germans, as opposed to Americans, expect to never pay close to list price. So a realistic transaction price would be 17,500€ maybe. This includes 19% VAT. So a realistic "export" price would be 14,705€.

So how is it possible to sell the Golf in the US then? By your logic, a US-spec Golf TDI would be $46,000. (European price including VAT converted into USD plus $7,000)
The only potential difference here could be that the Golf has the requirements of the US-spec crash tests baked into the structure, while the Polo might not. But many vehicles get converted to US-spec standards in the middle of their life. Think Ford Transit Connect. And if the current Polo isn't engineered to meet both US and Euro standards, the next one might be.

A version of the Golf & Jetta , both essentially the same car has been on sale here since the late 70s . These cars are designed and built from the ground up to be sold in both markets . The Golf & Jetta II looked the same from the outside but were slightly different even from Canadian to US models because of different crash tests & rules .

Many models over the last 20 years that looked identical on the outside both sold in the EU and the US are different enough that they are not able to be sold of imported to each others markets . I worked with grey market Porsche's in the late 70s so knew the import rules pretty well back then . And things have only got more complicated since . Pretty much after our safety rules changed in 1989 MY on it was a nightmare if not impossible to Grey market anything that wasn't specifically built in a version that was sold here . And if the drive train wasn't certified forget it .

Most of the parts they contain that are shared in both markets version are certified and tested for both markets , have been since their inception . Where the Polo has never been built or designed to be sold in our market . And you know as well as I do as the Golf and similar goes we do not get exactly never have gotten the same car they do option wise & drive train wise as is sold in Europe .

On any car that was not built of tested to be sold in our market I stand by what I've written . It will be expensive in the extreme to bring it here and quoting what it costs in the EU is less than useless on a car like that which in no way was designed to be sold here in any version .

 

[German_1er_diesel]

On any car that was not built of tested to be sold in our market I stand by what I've written . It will be expensive in the extreme to bring it here and quoting what it costs in the EU is less than useless on a car like that which in no way was designed to be sold here in any version .

Relax I think we can agree on:

1. If Volkswagen would now (in the middle of it's life cycle) decide to bring the Polo Bluemotion over and build it in Europe for the American market, it would probably be too expensive for them
2. If they designed the next Polo for both markets in the first place and saw enough of a market for a Bluemotion, they could pull that off for a sub-$20k-price

It may be too late for *this* Polo, but if they are smart, they could totally bring the next-gen Polo to the US.

 

[kjclow]

A more realistic scenario would be to build a "new" polo in Chattanooga or Mexico for NAFTA.

 

[kripstoe]

For interest's sake. I roughly paid $31394 for my TDI Polo in South Africa. :-|

 

[German_1er_diesel]

How much is a Golf 2.0 TDI with all the stuff the American Golf TDI has standard in South Africa? (RCD510, cruise control, bluetooth, iPod interface, sports seats, 17" wheels...)

 

[kripstoe]

How much is a Golf 2.0 TDI with all the stuff the American Golf TDI has standard in South Africa? (RCD510, cruise control, bluetooth, iPod interface, sports seats, 17" wheels...)

Roughly... $52818... Obviously depends on the spec levels.

 

[German_1er_diesel]

And I thought our taxes were bad.

 

[kjclow]

1st: Germans, as opposed to Americans, expect to never pay close to list price. So a realistic transaction price would be 17,500€ maybe. This includes 19% VAT. So a realistic "export" price would be 14,705€.

I was looking at your numbers thinking that it was surprising to see that large of swing in out the door pricing compared to sticker. After doing the calculations though, it puts it more inline with invoice versus retail pricing, which is closer to what I paid before the trade-in.

 

[wolfskin]

A more realistic scenario would be to build a "new" polo in Chattanooga or Mexico for NAFTA.

Well, all these threads start out with how much of a shame it is that the US market always gets restricted offerings of Euro ar Asian cars.

Not much further on we inevitably come to the conclusion that the US market somehow can only live with a version of the car which is purpose-designed for US and built in 'Chattanooga or Mexico'.

So make up your mind. Do you want the Euro Polo with all the available diversity, or do you want a US Polo that comes in 2-3 flavors and one engine choice (which happens to be the crappiest one)?