new here and start issue 2006 beetle

[Skinny1965]

hello all and thank you and My Daughter will thank you also if we figure this out

so 2006 Beetle doing no start first thing in morn.
so go out first thing open door stick key in and turn dash lights up you see coil light come on go out
then proceed to try turning over nope nothing no click notta
wait with key in on position say 5 min turn to crank and it just might it might not .if not get pissy pull key walk away maybe open garage up grab big charger wheeled to front of car go to pop hood ah while I'm here lets try turning key and it fires up

now this is random on what works to start it up and sometimes it does get a boost

saw something on youtube so I checked the glow plugs with test light by putting clamp end on pos and touching each glow plug this proved all would ground it also showed one with bad piece (glow pug sloppy like missing spacer in assembly) I replaced all glow pugs with new .
same vid had you check harness by putting clamp on neg turning key on and check each socket for glow plug (in vid they pulled the temp sensor i did it in morn when still cold) my test light lit in all 4 sockets

so I have just put in 4 new glow plugs
and also replaced the battery as I wasn't sure on age or if correct was used new one is 740 cca

so I'm hoping to go to a yard and find a 109 relay to try a swap see if that works but I'm open to other checks or possible fix

please help me out my Daughter love's her beetle (Rosie)

 

[Mozambiquer]

So, from what I understand you're saying is that it's not even cranking? If it's not cranking,it would have nothing to do with relay 109, or glow plugs. Is it manual or auto?

 

[Skinny1965]

The car is auto and this seems to be a random issue
I went out this morn and started it
got in pushed shift into park turned key waited seconds for coil light and others to go and turned to start and over it went and fired up
usually once its going all is good for day

I will try it tomorrow morning and see
this will give better ideas on what its really doing I've been going by my Daughter but she might leave out stuff

 

[Mozambiquer]

But when it doesn't start, it's not even cranking? Is that correct?

 

[Franko6]

You need to be clear. Is the starter not working? Or is the starter turning and the engine will not fire up?

Let me guess that the starter does work, because you give the hint, "...once it's going, all is good..."

If the engine struggles to start, and there are no CEL (check engine light), the most common issue would be an air leak somewhere between the fuel filter and the injectors. You are losing your prime. Prime, meaning there is air in the fuel system, which must be driven out before the injectors will work correctly.

The fuel filter for the BEW engines in the Beetle still have the thermostatic Tee, which is the first place I would look and a relatively simple fix. The cheap Chinese filters have poor seals and worse, the hole where the seal enters the filter housing is badly made and will cut the seals, causing an air leak. The good filters will have a radius at the entry of the hole, which makes installing the Tee trouble-free. The good filters also have a light blue seal and a black seal. The black seal goes at the bottom. Not sure why, but that's the way everybody does it. Not even sure why they have two different seals...

To bleed the air out of the system, the simplest method is to remove the glow plugs (Pugs??) They are easily accessed, and to top it off, I bet your old ones are just fine. More on that later...

To bleed any air out of system, with the gp's out, run the starter. The engine will run about 450rpm. With the hood up, you can peer at top of the engine. If you do not immediately see a mist of diesel like a whale spouting, coming from each gp hole, you have lost prime. Run the starter for about 30 second intervals until you see the mist coming out of the gp holes in 1-3-4-2 firing order. Once each cylinder is ejecting mist, reinstall the gp's and the engine should start very quickly.

If this is your 'fix', you need to find why there is an air leak or a fuel leak. It could be a bad tandem pump gasket, leaking or loose injector, bad fuel line, leaking fuel filter as mentioned earlier, or a real endo; a cracked cylinder head.

If the engine is still hard to start, I'd check timing and consider a compression test. Diesels are notorious that the first start of the day is the hardest. Worn rings, blown head gasket, worn cylinders and compression below 390psi will make a difficult to start car. As long as it keeps any amount of heat in the engine, it will start easily the rest of the day.

Getting back to the gp's... My warning is, if you still have the original ceramic style gp's, you need rid of them. The OEM's are easy to spot, as the shape of the tip is a cone, going to a square edge. The replacement steel version are a rounded tip. I like NGK, 5v which are much better, but require an ECU flash to change from the original 7v to 5v duty cycle. If the gp's you removed are the 5v version, the flash and upgrade has already been done. Since you did replace the old plugs, you can do an easy test. Set a battery charger around 10 amps and clamp one cable to the body of the gp. Touch the other clamp to the top of the gp. It takes only a second for the gp to light up. If you leave the lead on too long and the gp does light up, you will burn it out, so be careful and quick about it. If the old gp's light, they are good. Keep them as spares.

The last thing on the list is the gp relay, but I don't think that is likely, as the relay and the gp's will cause a CEL. The gp's only have power to them for a few seconds when it's warm. You will need a ohmmeter or test light. With the battery's hot lead removed, turn the key to the RUN position. Probe the gp harness to ground, then put the cable back onto the battery terminal. Above 7c, the gp will show voltage for maybe a few seconds. If it's -20c, it will stay on for a long time. If your gp's pass the battery test and the start test, leave the gp's alone as that is not the problem.

I hope that helps.

 

[Skinny1965]

ok so info has been little hard as it's my Daughters car and I've only been around it on occasion when it has done this and usally if I was around in past there was some sort of rush to get it to go

I'm now able to go out to the car in the mornings for a bit and start it on my own

I think she was trying to tell me that the car would not turn over at all
then she would mess with letting it sit with key on and try again and it would turn over

as i said this morning I got in I pushed the shifter into park put key in and it cranked over like no issues

tomorrow I will get in it and just put key in and try
and report

 

[Mozambiquer]

ok so info has been little hard as it's my Daughters car and I've only been around it on occasion when it has done this and usally if I was around in past there was some sort of rush to get it to go

I'm now able to go out to the car in the mornings for a bit and start it on my own

I think she was trying to tell me that the car would not turn over at all
then she would mess with letting it sit with key on and try again and it would turn over

as i said this morning I got in I pushed the shifter into park put key in and it cranked over like no issues

tomorrow I will get in it and just put key in and try
and report

If it's not turning over, could have either a starter solenoid getting weak, or wiring to the starter having issues, which could be a park switch or wiring. It for sure wouldn't be glow plugs, even though those are good to replace if they are bad.

 

[Skinny1965]

the glows were replaced and the battery as what my Daughter had said before to me
I can give better info when it refuses to work for me

 

[BobnOH]

Not GPs, not 109. Could be big wires/grounds or the starter is on it's way out. If you want to spend the time, might be worth dissassembly, clean, grease.
How to Rebuild Bosch Starter (SR0408X) 0 001 125 012 | TDIClub ...

 

[Mozambiquer]

Here's another similar thread... https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/rebuilding-tdi-starter-how-to.510400/

 

[GlowBugTDI]

I had the exact problem. sounds like a bad starter. turn key nothing... turn a few more times and finally it will pop. Eventually the starter will start to smoke, and that's when it's cooked lol. my bet would be the starter is going. Could be the solenoid or the woven copper cable that attaches it to the starter body. if it's the copper cable as mine was there isn't a good way to fix it, but i will be working on a easy fix for that with mine in the future.

 

[Mozambiquer]

I had the exact problem. sounds like a bad starter. turn key nothing... turn a few more times and finally it will pop. Eventually the starter will start to smoke, and that's when it's cooked lol. my bet would be the starter is going. Could be the solenoid or the woven copper cable that attaches it to the starter body. if it's the copper cable as mine was there isn't a good way to fix it, but i will be working on a easy fix for that with mine in the future.

That copper cable is part of the brush holder, unless you have the Valeo unit.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

That copper cable is part of the brush holder, unless you have the Valeo unit.

ah, makes sense. honestly haven't looked at it to much, just know that my starter was bad and that was the main problem.
my starter was stock with 140k miles on it. i found it very strange that it was bad at such low mileage.