New fuel pump?

[jorge]

Hi

I recently bought a 96 passat TDI wagon and have run into some issues. The car is now at a semi local shop from the recommended list of shops from TDI club that is telling me to rebuild the fuel pump. I'm just looking for a bit more input before I decide on a rebuild.

I've had the wagon only 2 months & was driving to work when cel blinked and power died. I was going highway speeds and just crested a hill when this happened. After getting towed to said shop they noticed my oil was really low even though I had it changed less than 1500 miles previous with regular 15/40. After topping it off, they replaced the fuel filter because no fuel was getting thru it (they took it apart and it was totally gunked up). Car started, we test drove it, it seemed fine and I drove off. 8 miles later, it shuddered hard, and the cel came back on for a second before it died again. After getting it towed back to the shop, vcds codes thrown were:

00765 g149

01268 n146

01237 n109

The last code the shop said was because they "pulled the plug to check it".

At this time, they're suggesting a fuel pump rebuild.

I don't know what kind of fuel previous owners ran, though the last guy who only owned it for a couple months, for some reason?, said he ran straight diesel.

Car always ran and started fine for me, except the morning it died it started hard and needed to be cranked for an extra 10 - 15 seconds.

Any other possible suggestions or thinks to check first would be great. Car is still at the shop and non operable right now. Good thing I haven't sold the Honda

Thanks
Jordan

 

[KLXD]

Check the filter again? If it suddenly gunked up and quit there may have been more of the same stuff in the tank.

Only time I've had trouble with a filter there was a gradual onset of symptoms; problems at high load conditions but ok at lower speed, gradually getting worse.

 

[rdkern]

If you have fuel that is gelling, it can clog a filter really quickly.

What is your altitude? Temp at night?

Regular issue with filters are as KLXD describes, but cold weather on untreated fuel can cause issues quickly.

Another thing that might be affecting your IP is the connection. Make sure it's clean and properly attached, with no frayed wires.

 

[Yblocker]

I agree with checking the filter again, and if it's bad look at the tank too.
No freezing temps in the Santa Cruz hills normally- I know, they call them "mountains".

 

[jorge]

Hills is definitely more appropriate! I've lived in the Rockies and the Cascades and have always had a hard time calling these hills mountains, so thanks for the reminder

I live at 2200 ft and no freezing temps recently, just some rain.

This was a pretty sudden offset, though I did get a new tank of fuel a day or two before the car died. I've gotten diesel there in the past without problem but maybe the fuel was bad. I'll see about re checking the new filter to see what it's status is. Thanks for the ideas?

 

[Abacus]

You have a wiring issue, I'd bet on it. I doubt you need a new pump. The wires to the fuel pump are known to chafe through at the plastic collet on the wires leading to the fuel pump. I see them all the time and it's the first thing I check when people tell me their car 'was running fine and just shut down' (the second thing I check is the timing belt).

Here is a picture. You often have to peel back the split tubing to see the chafes.

And here is what happens when left unchecked:

The brown one is the ground to the fuel pump, and it may be chafed through or rubbing against another. The black/white striped wire goes to your N109 relay.

I have seen wires chafe there and under the battery, so check there as well.

But the people above are correct in that you may still have fuel issues looming or may have received gas instead of diesel. They would not throw the electrical codes but are still something you should check. If your fuel filter needs to be replaced early again, then it's best to drain the fuel tank, clean the inside, and refill with new or you'll be chasing your tail.

 

[Steve Addy]

You have a wiring issue, I'd bet on it. I doubt you need a new pump. The wires to the fuel pump are known to chafe through at the plastic collet on the wires leading to the fuel pump. I see them all the time and it's the first thing I check when people tell me their car 'was running fine and just shut down' (the second thing I check is the timing belt).

Here is a picture. You often have to peel back the split tubing to see the chafes.

The brown one is the ground to the fuel pump, and it may be chafed through or rubbing against another. The black/white striped wire goes to your N109 relay.

I have seen wires chafe there and under the battery, so check there as well.

But the people above are correct in that you may still have fuel issues looming or may have received gas instead of diesel. They would not throw the electrical codes but are still something you should check. If your fuel filter needs to be replaced early again, then it's best to drain the fuel tank, clean the inside, and refill with new or you'll be chasing your tail.

Is there a sticky where this sort of stuff is kept? I have sometimes waded through the FAQ looking for stuff like this but other than one prior post where you mentioned the collet I haven't run across this before, and I think it's a pretty important issue, especially as these cars are pushing on 20 years old.

Are you attributing this to the corrugated wire covering or something else? Would it be better to pre-wrap the wiring before the corrugated cover goes on? Should a person even use the corrugated stuff?

As I get ready to install the wiring in the B3V conversion project I had been thinking about how to recover the harness since I split most of it out to do tracing etc.

Thanks for the info, I'll be checking this on my cars.

Steve

 

[Abacus]

Sorry, it's just the collet and not the split corrugated tubing, which I use all the time. The collet is under my fingers in the top post. It just snaps together and is at the end of the split tubing, theoretically to prevent chafing. I have never had an issue with the split tubing but do add a wrap of electrical tape at the end of the split tubing, just in case.

I have seen this issue on the vast majority of B4/A3's I've seen with and without issues, including Jetter_Sprinta's 95K mile A3.

I don't think it's a sticky.

 

[jorge]

We checked the new fuel filter and fuel easily sucks through it, so for now, that doesn't seem to be the issue, but it sounds like this electrical issue needs to be investigated. I'll let you know what we find.

Thanks

 

[mike92105]

Problems after fuel filter replacement

I was having all kinds of intermittent fuel issues after changing the fuel filter a while back. Come to find out that the 2 little black orings under the mickey mouse clip were the wrong ones. They were 1.5mm by 13mm, instead of 1.9mm by 13mm, luckily I had the right ones on hand and we will see if that was it. If the car sits too long I believe it loses suction on the fuel line and then has a problem priming again.

 

[jorge]

still hoping to check the electrical issue. maybe we'll add the orings to the list too.

thanks

 

[jorge]

electrical update

Here's the latest. I couldn't locate the electrical wires abacus mentioned but sure enough I did find some broken wires. I don't know what they're attached to but I'm going to try to attach pictures. Perhaps it's coming off a solenoid? They wires originate right next to the back of the battery toward the center of the engine. Any thoughts on what these are and what then being broken may lead to, perhaps my problems?

Thank you

 

[jorge]

Here are a few images


http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=109130

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=109129

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=109127

 

[ToddA1]

That's for your reverse light switch.

-Todd

 

[Abacus]

So what codes still remain after they're cleared?

Ask what the values in Group 001 are as well as the values in Group 019.

Did they say a 'rebuild' or a 'reseal', there is a large difference.

I'll try to help more tomorrow with the wire locations.

 

[jorge]

Since my reverse lights don't work, you're probably on to something there...

I don't know anything else about codes and I believe I was told rebuild, not reseal. There weren't any leaks. The car is still at the shop i towed it to which is located probably 40 miles from my house, it doesn't run so I may tow it home, sell it, or maybe go ahead with the IP repair.

I sent a link to this thread to the owner of the shop, telling him I took the car there because he is on the recommended TDI list and he hasn't responded to me when I asked him to look into the electrical issues Abacus brought up. Not sure what to do at this point. The car has been there for a few weeks already so I need to do something soon. Maybe tow it home and bring it to the GTG in April?

 

[jorge]

Is there anyway you can describe or show a zoomed out image of where the chafed wires you mentioned previously are located?

thanks