new engine in car won't start..

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
cranks starts for a sec then just dies instant, tryed bleeding lines advancing timing.. Same. Any Ideas?

at shop right now
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
If it starts and immediately dies, then your immobilizer is shutting the engine off.

Scan the ECU with VCDS and see if you're getting an immobilizer fault code.

If you changed the ECU along with the engine, then you need to get the SKC for the ECU and resync the immobilizer and the ECU.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Does it start and then die immediately, start fine and then sputter out, sputter to life and then die, act like it wants to start and then doesn't, not start at all, or something else?
 

AARodriguez Corp.

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
South East USA
TDI
2009 JSW and Golf 2004 TDI
fuel cutoff solenoid plunger might be stuck, I just had to replace mine. Check the voltage on it.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Yes... it will also set a trouble code in the computer, which the OP claims he is not getting.
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
It sputters starts for 1/2 sec, dies or just cranks.

Guess I'll try bleeding the fuel system again tomorrow see if that helps.

Only way it would be EGR valve causing not to start would be if the shutter valve was closed?
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Have someone look to see if it's open or closed when you try to start it. It takes vacuum to close it... the ASV is normally open, but I'm more inclined to say that there's air in the fuel system.

Have you checked the timing?
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
all the marks mined up perfect when we timed it, messed with IP some same deal.
 

TC282AVIATOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Location
GA
TDI
2001 Jetta
Shutter valve is normally open, u should be able to tell if it is open before u start the car. Mine sticks closed some times and it will pop open with a touch of the lever on the side . This really sounds like a Immobilizer issue , I have a 2001 wich loves to let me wait for the symbol in the dash to stop flashing after ten minutes with the key in the on position. It is a real pain in the ass.
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
Was no codes... what the heck is an Immobilizer? anyways?

It's the orginal engine just completely rebuilt.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
The immobilizer is a computer that recognizes a transponder in your ignition key. Without the correct key (or the correct coding), the car will start and immediately turn off, rendering it undrivable.

Who did your rebuild? Why was it rebuilt?
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
draco76 said:
Was no codes... what the heck is an Immobilizer? anyways?

It's the orginal engine just completely rebuilt.
A veteran member should know this one.
 

TC282AVIATOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Location
GA
TDI
2001 Jetta
if you leave the key in the ignition in the on position, eventually you will see the symbol on the dash stop flashing , typically takes 10 minutes. Somtimes longer . When it stops flashing the car will start. this will just get you to point B , no telling when it will happen again.
 

TC282AVIATOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Location
GA
TDI
2001 Jetta
PLace the key in the ignition in the on position for 10 minutes , the symbol should stop flashing , may take longer up to 20 minutes. When it stops flashing she will crank.
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
it's probably not it, it doesn't start right up you have to crank it awile then it suppers a lot. I'm thinking its a fuel issue.

VeeDubTDI said:
The immobilizer is a computer that recognizes a transponder in your ignition key. Without the correct key (or the correct coding), the car will start and immediately turn off, rendering it undrivable.

Who did your rebuild? Why was it rebuilt?
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
If it cranks for a while before sputtering to life, then it's not an immobilizer problem.
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
I'm just hoping bleeding the pump more helps, think my mechanic is getting pissed though.
 

87turboquattro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Location
sw of boston
TDI
97 passat
he needs to bleed the inj pump real good and crack those lines and get them squirting.
just went thru this.in the end i needed a pump to cram the fuel in.now return line is air free and starts every time.car was my 02 golf
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
Your mechanic should really know what he's doing. It's his own fault if he can't figure out how a simple diesel engine works. :rolleyes: Perhaps it would do him some good to spend some time with the shop manual.
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
VeeDubTDI said:
Your mechanic should really know what he's doing. It's his own fault if he can't figure out how a simple diesel engine works. :rolleyes: Perhaps it would do him some good to spend some time with the shop manual.
Sounds like a mark and pray mechanic, I wouldn't fo back for a TB job, you could srnd him here for more info.
 

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
Wasn't mark and prey, I was there helping the guy when he set the timing. He's just a local guy, he works on diesels all day at work but not with mechinical injection pumps. Cummings engines is what he's used to.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
draco76 said:
all the marks mined up perfect when we timed it,
Please tell us more about the "marks" you lined up. :confused:

- VW cam lock tool in place with the vac pump and valve cover removed?
- Flywheel TDC mark lined up with the pointer in the witness hole in the bell housing?
- Injection pump locked in place by the VW pump lock tool in the proper hole?

How was cam/crank/pump timing verified BEFORE removing the old belt?:confused:
How was cam/crank/pump timing verified AFTER the new belt install?:confused:

messed with IP some same deal.
:eek:
What did you adjust here? :confused: The 3 pump sprocket bolts are the only bolts to be touched. The pump can be rotated within the range of movment allowed by the slotted holes in the sprocket. If you moved the pump enough to see a change, it's probably too much. If you broke the large nut loose on the hub YOU ARE SCREWED(!) :eek: and the pump must be sent out to Bosch for repair because the hub no longer lines up with the pump internals (timing reference is lost).

It's also possible to get the pump lock tool in the correct hole in the sprocket hub but miss the corresponding hole in the pump housing. This will put the pump timing outside the injection window and cause a no-start condition even though cam and crank timing are correct.

I suggest downloading and reading the A4 TDI timing belt procedure to help verify that timing is correct.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:

draco76

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Location
Granite City, IL
TDI
99 NB(sold), 03 NB(sold), 100% bug free :) 99.5 4d Golf, 2004 GL Wagon
Valve cover off with Cam locked, Pump locked, timing set with mark on driveplate with tranny window. Only adjustment made was with the 3 holes on IP for the egg shaped adjustment. Motor was spun over by hand a few times to make sure everything still lined up. Everything was dead on.
 

v8volvo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Location
WA
TDI
2001 Jetta
VeeDubTDI said:
Have someone look to see if it's open or closed when you try to start it. It takes vacuum to close it... the ASV is normally open, but I'm more inclined to say that there's air in the fuel system.

Have you checked the timing?
If it won't run for more than a split second, you can't really check timing. :rolleyes: Damn electronic TDIs...

When it does run, for that split second, how does it seem? Rough/smoky/sputtering or running sort of OK? After that, if you crank it, does it act completely dead or does it seem like it almost wants to run? Smoke? Signs of life?

If it starts up well, then suddenly kills and acts completely dead when you try to crank it further, I would suspect the anti-shudder valve. You can pull the vac line off it to rule it out as a possibility.

If it doesn't start great, runs funny, then tries to start and smokes etc later but won't stay running, then you are most likely looking at a timing issue. Go back to square 1 and check that your basic timing is correct at the cam and at the pump. I find that when I set ALH motors very carefully in basic timing, their actual timing in VAG-COM ends up perfect almost every time and needs no further adjustment. If you do that basic setup right you will get it very very close, certainly close enough to run OK. You may be a tooth off somewhere.

It can take a while to get all the air bled out of the injector pump. Have you tried force-feeding it with a small low-pressure electric pump (Facet or similar) in line before the filter? That can be very helpful in ensuring a good bleed.

Go into VCDS with the key on and engine off and look at all the sensor value that the ECU pays attention to at startup. You are looking at temperatures (air, fuel, coolant), barometric pressure, and other external conditions (the motor does not care about MAF, O2, etc at startup). Ensure that all your values are reasonable and nothing is way off. If the engine is cold, for instance, all three temp readings should be very close to each other.

If nothing seems to be working, try unplugging the coolant temp sensor (at the rear of the head underneath the coolant manifold piece back there) and starting it with that unplugged. That makes the car think it is at the north pole and goes to full extreme cold setting, gives you lots of timing advance and fuel which will help it stay running at least long enough so you can check timing and figure out what else is going on.
 

v8volvo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Location
WA
TDI
2001 Jetta
Sorry missed your post about re-checking the timing. Sounds like you have a basic timing issue ruled out. I would proceed with working more on air bleeding, check sensor values, and unplug the coolant temp sensor which is often very helpful in getting stubborn diesels going. At this point your number one goal should be to do whatever you have to do to get the thing running. Don't use starting fluid, but all the other old diesel tricks your mechanic knows are perfectly legal -- third gear rope pull, hair dryers, blow torches, etc. The way these cars are set up it is difficult to know anything about what the engine is doing unless you can get it running so that VCDS can get a proper read on what is happening.
 
Last edited:
Top