New cruise control "feature" with 6spd maual

[in2dwww]

I tested a 2015 Golf TDI S 6MT for a week and took it everywhere. I don't like the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel - why do I need 6 buttons just for controlling cruise?

Anyway, if the car rev-matched while in cruise, it would make sense.

Overall, the loss of cruise defeat during clutch play isn't that bad when you're downshifting uphill or to pass a truck.

A quick tap of the brakes prior to downshift, to slow down, will defeat cruise anyway. So it's a bit counter-intuitive but at the same time it is probably "sensical" when you're on the highway for hours.

 

[forhumans]

I don't like the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel - why do I need 6 buttons just for controlling cruise?

1- Turn cruise control on or off
2- Set cruise speed / Reduce by 1mph
3- Cancel cruise speed
4- Reset cruise speed / Increase by 1mph
5- Increase / Decrease by 5mph

 

[doctorkb]

I don't like the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel - why do I need 6 buttons just for controlling cruise?

I've driven a few different vehicles with cruise control:
'86 Buick Skylark
~'98 Ford Windstar
'98 Honda Accord
'01 VW Jetta
'03 VW Jetta
~'05 Ford Explorer
~'06 Toyota 4Runner
'06 VW Eos
'13 VW Eos
'15 VW Golf

Of these, the only one that I recall having cruise control anywhere OTHER than the steering wheel is that '86 Skylark, which was on the turn signal stalk.

The '01 and '03 VWs had the on/off switch on the stalk, with controls on the steering wheel. The Honda had the on/off switch on the dash, with controls on the steering wheel.

Simply put: unless you're driving a car from the '80's, I'm pretty sure you're not going to find the cruise control not on the steering wheel.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I currently have manual transmission VWs going back to 1997 and they all work the same, including my recently sold '12 Golf. If you touch the brake or clutch pedal cruise disengages until you either press resume or reset it using the column stalk or steering wheel controls (later cars). I'm not sure what the OP is talking about.

And my '02 has controls on the turn signal stalk. Not from the 80s.

 

[TurnOne]

I have a 2013 BRZ with small Toyota style cruise stalk sticking out from 5 o'clock position not on the wheel. It works really well and I like it. I have a 2002 Freightliner (MB truck division) with little thin cruise control stick around the 10 o'clock position. Weird thing about that one is that it's push forward to cancel. Not intuitive at all but I learned to live with it. Tapping brakes still works but for us fuel economy nerds I don't like to use the brake pedal unless needed to stop.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I always like Toyotas cruise control stalks. Funny what you remember.

 

[JSWTDI09]

And my '02 has controls on the turn signal stalk. Not from the 80s.

...my '09 has cruise controls on the wiper stalk too, definitely not an '80s thing.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[GoFaster]

My Ram ProMaster (a.k.a. Fiat Ducato) has cruise control on its own stalk on the left, underneath the turn signal stalk.

Lots of vehicles have cruise control someplace other than on the steering wheel.

 

[doctorkb]

My Ram ProMaster (a.k.a. Fiat Ducato) has cruise control on its own stalk on the left, underneath the turn signal stalk.

Yeah, but that's a Chrysler product. The only reason any Chrysler can be called an automobile is because the Model A is still considered one.

 

[ssffnomad]

Driven Dozens of Cars/Pickups/Rigs w/ Cruise.
1) in over 35 years behind the wheel, I don't recall once tapping Brake pedal to shut off cruise. It's all about knowing what you are driving.

2) Best Cruise I have ever used is in my Wife's 89' Benz. Patel type behind steering wheel. One motion up on down changes Cruise speed to match traffic.

 

[waltzconmigo]

genuinely curious at what speeds and situations this becomes an issue once one is aware of it. I do not believe I have ever set the cruise below 65 on the highway so I am not sure where this causes safety issues. do I just use cc less than others who live in less populated areas would as a daily habit?

 

[Thunderstruck]

Once you are aware of it is the key. I drive weekends at the edge of Chicago and use CC constantly due to the smaller cities like EGV and Itasca always running radar. When I hit a speed zone I like to push clutch in, and pop car into neutral to glide down to the lowers PSL. Once I've hit it I'll put the car in gear and normally would hit cc to lock the new lower speed. It's no biggie now that I'm aware of it, but when I hit a place known for speed traps I was not happy the car tried to resume the old higher speed.

 

[kjclow]

I read through this thread yesterday and thought about it more overnight. I've been driving manual cars with cruise since 85 and pressing either the clutch or brake pedal will disengage it. I also disengage the clutch for cutting speed in traffic. Works better for me and doesn't cause brake light anxiety for behind me. If I'm having to cut speed that obviously I don't want to keep the car at the set cc speed for that moment. To have the car return to the set speed seems like someone set it up that never uses cc in traffic. I'll go out on a limb here and say that over 75% of those that drive manuals use brakes less by popping the car into neutral and cruising at least part of most trips.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

I think the thing is it's been shown that everyone uses CC in their own way, whether brake, clutch or the cancel switch. Regardless, if you have to use the clutch, then it's apparent that the situation has changed and CC is not appropriate at that point. Having it re-engage regardless of gear used only applies to a narrow band of circumstances of all that could exist. If I push in the clutch, there's a reason and CC is no longer needed. Having the car take off on it's own based on some assumption is just dangerous, IMO.

 

[doctorkb]

What's come to light is that the clutch is being used for non-standard (and sometimes illegal) purposes.

The textbook use of the clutch is:
1. to change gears
2. to have the gearbox disengaged while the vehicle is stopped

To use the clutch to "coast" is bad on a few accounts:
1. it uses more fuel than leaving it engaged, but not using the accelerator (or cruise control)
2. coasting (having the gearbox disengaged while in motion) is illegal in many areas
3. unnecessary wear on the clutch -- minimal, but it is there

To use the clutch to disengage cruise control is inappropriate because:
1. it's a "hack" -- the cruise disengaged because of the old cruise control systems not being smart enough to talk to the transmission, etc.
2. there's a button for that: "Cnl" will do just that with less wear on the vehicle
3. unnecessary wear on the clutch, clutch pedal, etc.

Yes, this function has worked this way on every vehicle you (or I) have driven until now. BUT WHO CARES? My intermittent wipers functioned the same way on EVERY OTHER CAR I've driven until this one -- thanks to the rain sensor, they need to see moisture to activate. Why aren't we whining about that?

It's called progress, folks. It's why you got a new car.

 

[Ruso Turisto]

This caught me completely off guard!!! I was in 6th gear with CC engaged and downshifted to 4th for some engine breaking as traffic was slowing down, as soon as I released the clutch the vehicle did a very brisk acceleration to preset speed of 120km/h!!!! I only had seconds to react to avoid collision with slower traffic. Coming from 8 years of driving MK5 TDI I was used to clutch engagement canceling the CC. Seriously VW, what were you thinking??? I am sure I'll get used to it and so will the wifey, but this was a close call.

 

[doctorkb]

this caught me completely off guard!!! I was in 6th gear with cc engaged and downshifted to 4th for some engine breaking as traffic was slowing down, as soon as i released the clutch the vehicle did a very brisk acceleration to preset speed of 120km/h!!!! I only had seconds to react to avoid collision with slower traffic. Coming from 8 years of driving mk5 tdi i was used to clutch engagement canceling the cc. *** vw???

rtfm.

changing gears when cruise control is active
the cruise control reduces acceleration as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed, and automatically continues to regulate the speed after a gear change.

 

[Ruso Turisto]

rtfm.

Thanks tips!

 

[thecapn_dennis]

More random musings ~~~ sigh

Being a Mainer, I've always found my Canadian neighbors to be very polite. And as an old retired computer programmer I always thought that nobody would be snarky on a public forum. Guess I also believe in fairy tales as I rapidly approach senility.

I'd better not use my cruise control come late August when I go through a certain province en route to visit relatives in BC. Don't wish to be denigrated while I downshift to slow my car while entering a nasty corner.

 

[doctorkb]

Being a Mainer, I've always found my Canadian neighbors to be very polite. And as an old retired computer programmer I always thought that nobody would be snarky on a public forum. Guess I also believe in fairy tales as I rapidly approach senility.

I'd better not use my cruise control come late August when I go through a certain province en route to visit relatives in BC. Don't wish to be denigrated while I downshift to slow my car while entering a nasty corner.

Polite, sure. Tolerant of American idiocy... not as much.

Instead of downshifting, why wouldn't you just hit that little "CNL" button? Once through the corner, hit the RES button, and you're all set, no shifting, no clutch wear, etc. Alberta highways have VERY few corners nasty enough to warrant a downshift... and if you're on one of them, you probably should reconsider using CC on it.

 

[Ruso Turisto]

Being a Mainer, I've always found my Canadian neighbors to be very polite. And as an old retired computer programmer I always thought that nobody would be snarky on a public forum. Guess I also believe in fairy tales as I rapidly approach senility.

I'd better not use my cruise control come late August when I go through a certain province en route to visit relatives in BC. Don't wish to be denigrated while I downshift to slow my car while entering a nasty corner.

...ouch but seriously, what's wrong with downshifting to slow the vehicle down?

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Certainly a safety issue. If you cancel CC by any of the methods available, including the clutch sensor, it should under no circumstances be commanded back on unless you specifically request it by hitting resume or set.

I find it unbelievably that the manufacturer would knowingly incorporate this potentially dangerous "feature" into the CC logic. Is it described in the owners manual?

Kinda reminds me of the runaway CC problems Audi and some other manufacturers had in the past.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Is it described in the owners manual?

Apparently yes (see post #47 above). The problem here is that very few people actually read (let alone understand) the owner's manual.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[kjclow]

Apparently yes (see post #47 above). The problem here is that very few people actually read (let alone understand) the owner's manual.

Have Fun!

Don

VW doesn't help in that matter by having one owners manual per body style. I know it's easier to print it all in one book but do I really need to know the ins and outs of the gas engine?

 

[doctorkb]

Certainly a safety issue. If you cancel CC by any of the methods available, including the clutch sensor, it should under no circumstances be commanded back on unless you specifically request it by hitting resume or set.

I find it unbelievably that the manufacturer would knowingly incorporate this potentially dangerous "feature" into the CC logic. Is it described in the owners manual?

Kinda reminds me of the runaway CC problems Audi and some other manufacturers had in the past.

That's just it, cancelling the cruise control by using the clutch is NOT AN AVAILABLE METHOD. It is not described as an available method in the owner's manual, and it doesn't act like one.

It is no more appropriate of a method to cancel CC than pressing on the accelerator to go faster than the CC is set.

(and yes, the quote in post #47 came directly from the owner's manual).

 

[doctorkb]

VW doesn't help in that matter by having one owners manual per body style. I know it's easier to print it all in one book but do I really need to know the ins and outs of the gas engine?

I'd wager that the similarities account for 90% of the manual, with the differences being only about 10% -- if that.

One must consider that it would be easier to find a replacement in stock at a dealer with fewer parts to keep on hand... in case you've ever had to replace a manual.

 

[JKC_NC]

Wrong thinking

drkb's thinking is flawed. This is clear to most who have chimed in.

In addition to demonstrating flawed thinking, drkb has shown himself to hold absurd prejudices against all products from Chrysler, and against all the idiots in his neighboring country.

Tone started out light and friendly but drkb really took it down.

I won't explain why drkb's thinking is flawed as other have already explained it...rather I'll just point out specific instances.
Flawed thinking:
1) To cancel CC via clutch is "worse" or "lazy" compared to using the brake or CC cancel button
2) The described "new" behavior is an advancement of new technology

Both 1 & 2 can be logically disputed and demonstrated to be untrue.

In addition to the flawed thinking, drkb stated the following incorrect idea:
It is more efficient to coast in gear (fuel cut off) than in neutral with engine idling.

This is a common misunderstanding, so I will forgive it. You will disagree with the explanation, but rest assured it is true.

If we define efficiency as the fuel required to get the car a given distance without using the brakes, as is common, we get mpg as a measure of efficiency.

Given:
1) Coasting in gear uses no fuel
2) Coasting in neutral requires fuel to idle the engine

How then is it possible that coasting in neutral uses less fuel?

It has to do with engine drag, which robs the car of momentum thereby causing the in-gear coasting vehicle to slow faster than the in-neutral coasting vehicle.

Case1:
When you coast in gear, the "stopping load" working to slow the car is the rolling resistance =SUM(wind resistance, non engine related mechanical resistance, mechanical energy required to turn engine at current RPM). Note the engine RPM while coasting is necessarily higher than engine idle RPMs, otherwise the car will try to add fuel to maintain idle RPMs.

Case2:
When you coast in neutral, the "stopping load" working to slow the car is the
rolling resistance is =SUM(wind resistance, non engine related mechanical resistance). In addition, energy (fuel) is required to idle the engine.

In terms of energy, the only difference between Case1 and Case2 is that the engine is turning at lower RPMs in Case2. Since it uses more energy to turn an engine faster than it does to turn an engine slower, Case2, in general is more efficient.

However, IF you are intentionally slowing the vehicle, then Case1 should be used.

Understanding this will enable the driver of a manual transmission to coast or slow the vehicle while maximizing efficiency.

 

[doctorkb]

Case1:
When you coast in gear, the "stopping load" working to slow the car is the rolling resistance =SUM(wind resistance, non engine related mechanical resistance, mechanical energy required to turn engine at current RPM). Note the engine RPM while coasting is necessarily higher than engine idle RPMs, otherwise the car will try to add fuel to maintain idle RPMs.
Case2:
When you coast in neutral, the "stopping load" working to slow the car is the
rolling resistance is =SUM(wind resistance, non engine related mechanical resistance). In addition, enegry (fuel) is required to idle the engine.
In terms of energy, the only difference between Case1 and Case2 is that the engine is turning at lower RPMs in Case2. Since it uses more energy to turn an engine faster than it does to turn an engine slower, Case2, in general is more efficient.
However, IF you are intentionally slowing the vehicle, then Case1 should be used.

And... since we're talking about slowing the car to make a turn, Case 1 applies.

That said, Case 2 is illegal, at least in some jurisdictions. Here is the BC Motor Vehicle Act section that applies:

Coasting down grade
197 When travelling down grade a driver must not coast with the gears of the vehicle in neutral or the clutch disengaged.

Since the only way you'd maintain speed when coasting is if you're on at least a slight down grade, Case 2 should be avoided for legal reasons.

 

[JKC_NC]

"And... since we're talking about slowing the car to make a turn, Case 1 applies.

That said, Case 2 is illegal, at least in some jurisdictions. Here is the BC Motor Vehicle Act section that applies:

Quote:
(Coasting down grade
197 When travelling down grade a driver must not coast with the gears of the vehicle in neutral or the clutch disengaged.)

Since the only way you'd maintain speed when coasting is if you're on at least a slight down grade, Case 2 should be avoided for legal reasons."

Thanks for less hostile tone.

I disagree. There are plenty of times when it makes sense to coast when you are not going down a grade. Think about riding a bike. One does lots of coasting...not always peddling or slowing down. Driving a car is no different.

Does the DSG do a neutral coast as well when you lift off the go-pedal? I was thinking I read several years ago that that it does, to avoid engine braking when slowing down is not the goal. It might have been another car though.

 

[No More Buffalo]

Does the DSG do a neutral coast as well when you lift off the go-pedal? I was thinking I read several years ago that that it does, to avoid engine braking when slowing down is not the goal. It might have been another car though.

It's complicated.

On the Mk6 Golf and JSW, it does NOT, on the US Passat it does. Not sure about the Mk7 golf. But basically it's all down to the transmission coding.