New Cr140 build!

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
My Jetta just threw a rod from an over rev and I know it's largely my fault Edit: not an over rev. ignition with nitrous oxide present in the intake from days prior testing - very stupid mistake. the piston head let go of the pin and shattered against the glowplug. scroll down for pics.

I'm not letting it get me down and I'm focusing on my best possible solution and I think that would have been building a proper bottom end in the first place. I'd like to reuse everything I can from my CBEA but I don't know the health of the exhaust turbine in the turbo as of yet. (Turbo is ok!)

This happened just a couple of days ago so I'm still sorting out work space but I know I need to source an intact bottom and top end as soon as I can!

anyone have a block and pistons with rods for sale? with a cylinder head? any suggestions for a TDI junk yard in British Columbia?
 
Last edited:

MrCypherr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Location
Ontario
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
Are you looking to build the head or use a stock head? If you feel like spending some money, I know people have gone with the CR180 heads from Europe cause they flow alot better than anything over here. Stock heads, Ive heard anything over 250hp, youll have airflow issues. Not sure how true that is as I havent seen any logs supporting that.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
oh that's very interesting! what other modifications are involved with going with the cr180? I would presume both manifolds are different... hence the benefit?

thanks for replying to my thread, I really appreciate it.

...at a glance, a new bare cr180 head costs the same as a complete used cr140 head...
I'm guessing it uses larger everything? valves, cams etc?

With some more reading I've determined that the benefit of going with the cr180 is offset too much by the cost of switching. I think I'd need to find a complete head and then resell mine (assuming it's not damaged) to recoup some of the cost.

Otherwise, I'll do the headwork myself on this cr140 head, which I've done in the past but not on a TDI. I've done small blocks high highschool (20 years ago) and an AAZ head once on my favorite car I've ever had that I miss dearly...

Those with a very good memory will recognize my username from my ultra low budget build I did in 2007-2008 when I was 16 wherein I combined a 1.6 bottom end with a 1.9 AAZ head - my own exhaust and front mount intercooler - and I did a lot of Gilles-esque pump mods that you could do without a test bench. I posted prolifically about it on a thread on the old IDI-TDI forum. Nearly ten years later I got a mk4 2-door tdi golf that I did zero engine work on but did some fun stance stuff with it. That car got driven into by a confused person and written off unfortunately.
 
Last edited:

MrCypherr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Location
Ontario
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
It is more costly thats for sure but have seen good results with people who have used it with a CR140 build. I believe there is someone here (I think, stonex) that made a decent amount of power of a CR140 build with I THINK stock heads or some head work. He has a thread here of the build somewhere but I dont think he has been active in a long time.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
you're correct! I read his 57 page thread yesterday! he hasn't been active in on it in a very long time, 2016 I think. the majority of his posts were in 2014. Great info on there!!! I think for the cost I'll do some port & polish myself. I have no reason to go beyond what I've already got.
the turbo I have I need to re-check what it actually is but it's not OEM (it is a Rotomaster k1430104n, which is a direct OEM replacement. the turbines are about 5% larger than the OEM turbo it replaced. I replaced the original because the vacuum vane actuator seized and I couldn't replace just that piece.) I'm pretty sure I understand how VNT turbos work but this one will build boost when downshifting or even just a slight amount of go-pedal would yield 10-14 psi.
I stomp on it and it nearly instantly goes up to 26/27psi, then down to 24/25 and holds very steadily and you can then feel the fuel come on and the car would start to really accelerate. I'll have info soon when I get the long block out of the car and on a stand.
 
Last edited:

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
So, for anyone listening, I've started the process of switching what I can on my CBEA to CJAA but I think I'm startin to overthink things.

Has anyone ever ran a CBEA head with a CJAA bottom end? They should mate the same on the bottom but I know the valve cover is slightly different. Can anyone smarter than me add any details to this? I know the oil pump and one coolant hose are different. I found a pretty comprehensive thread from a few years ago where a brave guy tries to go over all the differences, but there appears to be some fogginess around a couple things. Namely whether or not the cylinder head is fundamentally different in regards to belt tension or deck height or if it just uses a different cam cover. Like how you can use a 1.9L IDI/TDI AAZ cylinder head on a 1.6L IDI vw bottom end (I built one of these when I was 17) and made a huge 15 page thread about it. I just looked after many years and it has over 30,000 views! That's crazy to me! Beware, I did that build when I was a teenager in my parents garage. It was an enormous learning experience so the thread is largely me asking questions and the posting what I either accomplished or screwed up.
My one huge regret is not posting more when the car was working. I won't make that mistake again.


If my CBEA head is ruined, should I replace it with a CJAA head? I don't have the money (moreso the space) to buy and convert to a PD180 head as previously discussed. Would all my other CBEA parts cross over no problem to both a CJAA or a PD180 cylinder head? Reminder: I don't have the factory exhaust at all - it's a completely fabricated 2.5 inch open exhaust (with a fake DPF) and full egr and exhaust-valve delete and I have a strange turbo swap that seemed to be an easy modification.

I've got a bare CJAA block; so, I found a used chain driven ALH pump "conversion" kit but I'm pretty sure I'll have to drill and tap the block. I also found the t-stat hose for a CJAA from a local retailer - I need to order it. VW wanted something totally crazy like $300 for it - its less than half that for aftermarket. For anyone finding this in a search, the hose is a Gates product:
24674 GATR
Product # 42948674

I'm thinking after ARP head studs the weak point of my build will be the crank... short of having a custom milled crank created for what I would guess would be something like $15,000, I'm not sure what else to do other than to buy a good condition used one. (I'm assuming mine has major damage from the rod throw event).

I'm waiting to see if I need to do a bore before I buy new pistons. Does anyone have anything to say about ceramic coating piston faces? Valves too? The exhaust turbine of the turbo cartridge (lol!)? I'm in a position to do silly things like that but is there a benefit? Curious to see what you all think.

Moving forward - what to expect here - , I live in North Vancouver where (at lower elevations at least) it doesn't really snow, but over the last two days it snowed something like 25cm. I know this sounds piddly to anyone in the interior but it's also hovering between +1c and -1c so everything either looks like its melting and it is, or it's completely frozen and is terrifying to walk/drive/stand on. Think polished ice rink that LOOKS like pavement. I've spent all morning helping my older neighbours leave the building and I had sort of planned on picking up the block today - I knew it was going to snow.
 
Last edited:

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I say I can't afford the pd180 head but it's the same cost to replace the damaged head with a CJAA as it is a pd180, I just need to ask the forum, if i get this head, it includes the valves and cams so it's actually pretty cost effective, but will all my CBEA parts fit to the cylinder head?
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I agree with you. I bought an AAZ cylinder head from the same Chinese outfit ten years ago and it was perfectly fine. I think for aluminum casting they've (China) really caught up. I'm more leery about steel alloy quality which is why I opted for German made rods.

ps. I love that site. I wish I found it before I bought the crank I did on eBay.
 

Trev0rBr

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Location
York, PA
TDI
1981 2 door diesel Jetta
Are you looking to build the head or use a stock head? If you feel like spending some money, I know people have gone with the CR180 heads from Europe cause they flow alot better than anything over here. Stock heads, Ive heard anything over 250hp, youll have airflow issues. Not sure how true that is as I havent seen any logs supporting that.
I have seen that limit mentioned before but it was for 8v engines like alh and pd's. Of course with boost, all things are possible, the CR engines arent as well developed, so in a lot of ways you will probably be a trail blazer, depending on what your power goal is anyway.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I have seen that limit mentioned before but it was for 8v engines like alh and pd's. Of course with boost, all things are possible, the CR engines arent as well developed, so in a lot of ways you will probably be a trail blazer, depending on what your power goal is anyway.
I don't want to do anything too crazy. I want it to be a very capable daily driver that I drive normally, most of the time, and sometimes it can go very fast.
I think I'd like to do some head work myself. I'll gasket match as much as I can.

Once this is back together I think I have to go back to Mark and Owain in Surrey to tweak it a little bit.
I'd be really happy with 235hp on the pedal and close to 300hp on the juice and still see 5.8-6.5 L/100km. I'm actually quite excited to dyno the car and see what it says.
I don't think I will be unhappy so long as the car is fun to drive. It was fun to drive before I blew it up so even if it's just a reliable version of what it was, I'll be very happy.
Thanks for your input!!!
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
Does anyone know the kit number for CJAA/CBEA block head studs?
Darkside developments in the UK sells them for $500, which is at least double what they should cost. I was hoping they would slip the part # in their photos but they were careful not to spill any beans. Using ARP's site to search for the studs didn't work either.
Should I just go with TTY OEM bolts?
I already bought kit 204-4302 by accident, which is an M10 kit, not an M12 kit. Doesn't fit. I can't return it either, so if anyone needs 16v ARP head studs you can get them from me for a steal.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I'd just get a complete running CJAA from a boneyard and drop it in. No point in making things so difficult.
 

lemoncurd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Eastern CT
TDI
2013 CJAA GTB2266
I believe @lemoncurd has a set brand new for sale?
thanks for looking out for me!

@SmokeyEddyTDI i've got exactly what youre looking for:


drop me a PM if youre interested

edit: my price is listed in USD. did a estimate on shipping to canada and it was $30-35 with a package value of $400 (enough for me to re-buy from darkside then forward to you if the package gets lost/damaged)
 
Last edited:

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I guess that is what you would do...
...
..
I find this response puzzling... did you read any part of the thread? my current build has a turbo swap, nitrous set up, all emission deletes, a custom made exhaust from the turbo back...

if I was going to hang a complete long block from a crane why wouldn't you change the bottom end components?
that's really all I'm doing here and I guess I bought H-beam rods so I had to get the crank balanced for $150 so that added not exactly necessary complications but I think it's worth it and maybe that's the difference in opinion here.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
What is your power goal? The talk about adapting an ALH injection pump has me thinking pie in the sky. A bone stock CJAA block and head is good for 250 HP with just turbo, intercooler, fuel injectors, ecu and hpfp mods. Do you want to drive the car, or look at it?
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I think you misread oil pump for injection pump. an alh injection pump in a CR is very curious thinking indeed.
my goal is to build something fun. I really enjoy putting it together and then seeing it work. that's my power goal. the car was already doing 200+ with the Malone tune and turbo.
I wasn't aware that using a different intercooler then the OEM one yielded much benefit?
if it won't ruin the design of the head, I'm open to porting it out a bit and polishing it up.
 
Last edited:

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Ah, well adapting an ALH oil pump is still pretty weird, but not batsh!t crazy. The OE intercooler has plastic endtanks and will often start leaking boost around 30 psi. All aluminum is what you want for a serious build. As far as porting the head, I wouldn't go much beyond cleaning things up and gasket matching. Not going to see much gains there. The OE block, head, pistons, rods, head bolts are all quite stout.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
Thanks for the reply! hopefully I'll be building for longevity then. My IC couplers are leaking badly and always have... my tune is set for 25psi which holds very steady so I've never felt like there's a bad leak but maybe there is. I need to properly identify the turbo I have as well.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I ran into a snag I need some brain power to help with. The thermostat housing is different between the two blocks.

I found a couple great posts regarding this:

My question to everyone is, how much of the CBEA cooling system do I ultimately have to swap over? In those threads it's never mentioned beyond the t-stat housing but I don't know or understand what all the extra ports on the housing are for that are not present on the CBEA housing. I'm sure it's simple and I'm missing something obvious.

Do I need this?
It doesn't exist on my 2009 CBEA. Why does it have to be SO expensive...

So far I have gathered I need to relocate the temperature sensor into a T because for the CJAA they put that in-line in a T.


I'll need to change

• the T-stat housing from CBEA to CJAA
• the flange on the side of the head above the bellhousing
• the Hard line from T-stat housing that wraps around the block towards the heater core lines (maybe it's actually the EGR cooler which leads into my main line of questioning...)
• If i don't have an EGR valve at all anymore, and a Mark Malone tune, can I delete the EGR cooler entirely? When I did the delete, the kit I bought came with a blocking plate - I think to try and make the delete as simple as possible but now with the engine on a stand I can just remove it entirely right? and put a 90 degree elbow in the coolant line (or whatever works)?

I'm using this as a reference which I know isn't perfect but it's darn close...
 
Last edited:

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
Last edited:

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
So far I have gathered I need to relocate the temperature sensor into a T because for the CJAA they put that in-line in a T.
Having just done an engine swap (just a CJAA bad to CJAA good, but the "good" engine was hacked out of its donor vehicle so I had to replace all of the coolant and wiring anyway), the coolant temp sensor is in the same place on the CJAA as it was on my friend's BRM, and thus, I assume in your CBEA - on the backside of the flange that bolts to the head under the tandem pump (and behind the intercooler piping; DO NOT forget to plug the CTS in before installing that intercooler piping, or you will hate yourself. Ask me how I know. 🤦‍♂️).

Here's a schematic of the CJAA showing the "4/2 valve" (aka thermostat housing) to help make sense of what goes where.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
thank you very much!
there appear to be two. one in the flange on the head and another but on the BRM/early CBEA it's inside the thermostat housing... not in a T
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
Ahhh - right. Forgot about that second one.
I might have that section of coolant hose still kicking around from the swap - pm me if it'd help you out, as shipping would be pretty quick and easy from me on the Island.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
I really appreciate that, I've unfortunately already purchased the pipes and hoses and the two fittings from that second hand diesel site CanadaCatalyst.ca
I broke one of the plastic quick connect fittings pulling the engine (I forgot to disconnect it like an idiot!) and ordered a new one from Napa for $60. I wish I had bought a second hand one from that website, especially seeing as I'm also getting so many coolant parts anyways.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
I've seen that CanadaCatalyst.ca come up in Google searches recently; where do they ship from? Reasonable shipping prices?
I need the heat shield that attaches to the block under the turbo, to protect the CV axle.
 

SmokeyEddyTDI

Active member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Location
North Vancouver, BC
TDI
2009 300km CR140 CBEA Stage 2+ Malone. 2.5" straight exhaust. 450nM Sachs clutch. unknown ADP Turbo swap. 6spd man. Nitrous kit (un-used). Complete EGR delete. Anti shudder valve delete.
Ontario I think!
 

MrCypherr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Location
Ontario
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
CanadaCatalyst ships out of Southern Ontario. Not too far from me. There are a couple other places in Ontario too that do dismantling and sell used parts. DasParts and Next Generation Volkswagen Dismantlers.
 
Top