New cam, what oil to use now?

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

VW is changing my camshaft, followers, and bearings under warranty. My car an 06.5 PD BRM has roughly 72,000 miles on the original cam while using VWs crappy 505.01 oil. My question here is what oil should I use to keep this from happening again? The oil I was using was Pentosin HiPro 5W-40 changed at 10,000 mile intervals with UOA done at change, it obviously didn't keep my cam from dying.

Not trying to start an oil war here, just trying to get some advice.

Thanks
Jason

 

[ecarnell]

If the new cam is fully warrentied for another xx,xxx miles - I think you should stay with the "crappy" vw 501.01 stuff. If it doesn't come with a warranty(I haven't heard of many failing/getting replaced under the normal warranty period) then you should be discussing what oil....
You know 100% that vw would have declind your claim if you hadn't been using the "correct" oil.

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

If the new cam is fully warrentied for another xx,xxx miles - I think you should stay with the "crappy" vw 501.01 stuff. If it doesn't come with a warranty(I haven't heard of many failing/getting replaced under the normal warranty period) then you should be discussing what oil....
You know 100% that vw would have declind your claim if you hadn't been using the "correct" oil.

True, but I believe their parts warranty will only be good for 12,000 miles. What good is that if the cam fails again in 20-30,000 miles or 70,000. I would find it very hard for the cam to fail while it is under their 12,000 warranty.

I'm looking at making this cam last till I get rid of the car, hopefully thats at least another 150,000 miles.

 

[Lightflyer1]

The two current favorites it seems are Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT IIRC. Just look through the oil analysis thread for BRM engines.

 

[ecarnell]

If it's only 12000miles then you are free to run anything!
Honestly - don't know why yours failed early. I'm at 120,000miles/200,000km - running strickly 501.01 and never had a problem(knock on wood). Dont know If you just got a "bad" one, service conditon?, ect. That made it fail "early".
Rotella and mobil would be your best alternative.

 

[TooSlick]

I'd run either the Amsoil 10w-40/AMO or the Mobil 1, Turbo Diesel Truck (or Delvac 1) Both are nice & thick at high temps and shear rates. They also have lots of ZDDP & detergent/dispersant additives....

You could break the cam in on a VW 505.01 oil just to make sure it's not defective, then switch to a heavier API spec synthetic at the first oil change.

TS

 

[dzcad90]

M1 TDT seems to be the frontrunner. If I had a PD, that's what I would be running. Not only does it seem to do well, it's readily available for cheap. Well, cheap as fully synthetic Diesel oils goes...

What likely occured is improper break in and use of the 5W-30 oil during the initial 30K on your car from the previous owner. Not really their fault either - it's what VW said to do.

 

[tditom]

D-Cell, I think you are mistaken in assuming that any oil would magically prevent your cam wear failure.

If 5W40 505.01 didn't protect it, then nothing would...

 

[pleopard]

I agree with tditom...

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

D-Cell, I think you are mistaken in assuming that any oil would magically prevent your cam wear failure.

If 5W40 505.01 didn't protect it, then nothing would...

I don't want it to last forever, just 150,000 miles and I'll be happy!

 

[wincharger]

Schaeffers 9000 will protect against cam wear with Moly, seen it many times when I used to sell it, saves cam and crank wear in many high mileage engines.

Take 500,000psi to shear it(moly).

 

[unionamt]

I'm going to be changing out my cam sooner than later, and I was also trying to figure out what oil to run. I use m1TDT right now, and just bought some t6 (17.99 at meijer), but I'm thinking of going to schaeffers s9000. Still not sure what I'll do, but it is nice that meijer has both tdt and t6.

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

The warranty on the new cam is only 12000 miles so when I get it back I believe I will be changing the oil to Mobil TDT and maybe adding 1oz of zddp.

 

[cheezy]

D-Cell, I think you are mistaken in assuming that any oil would magically prevent your cam wear failure.

If 5W40 505.01 didn't protect it, then nothing would...

This,^^

The level of disclosure from the dealership as to what exactly caused the failure is always suspect. My guess is an improper torque somewhere caused the failure. Been in for warranty engine work before?

However, kudos to the dealer going to bat for you and doing the right thing. Always nice to hear success stories of Customer Service going the correct way.

 

[cheezy]

Schaeffers 9000 will protect against cam wear with Moly, seen it many times when I used to sell it, saves cam and crank wear in many high mileage engines.

Take 500,000psi to shear it(moly).

I'm trying Schaeffer 9000 in the B4 w/231K miles. Local engine shop will sell it @ $144 for a case of 6 gallon jugs, if the cars and truck like it. I like the Amsoil products but the shipping is killing the prices.

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

This,^^

The level of disclosure from the dealership as to what exactly caused the failure is always suspect. My guess is an improper torque somewhere caused the failure. Been in for warranty engine work before?

However, kudos to the dealer going to bat for you and doing the right thing. Always nice to hear success stories of Customer Service going the correct way.

No past engine work has been done. The only things ever done besides routine maintenance has been the DMF replacement and a few minor things like airbag harness repair.

I have the car back now and it's running the smoothest I ever has and is quieter during excelleration. I plan on changing the oil here real soon to Mobile 1 TDT and adding 1oz of zddp. I will run that for 5000 miles and sample it. Pending outcome of the uoa I will change it or run it to 10,000 then change it.

 

[TDICrazier]

my tdi cam and head were just replaced by dealer, i am wondering the same as what oil to use. i had been using only 505.01 oil before it gave out at 52kmi, how to prevent it from happening again with 505.01? no answer basically; poor design.

 

[Henrick]

Poor desing would lead to death of all the PD engines at low mileage. However, there are plenty (even here) with much more successful thousands of miles. Ask gurus, they often see high mileage cars with pristine cams.

 

[fossill]

Any Heavy Duty Commercial Synthetic Engine oil. Stay away from the "one size fits all" types such as what you've been using.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

When I talk to PD owners with failed cams I almost always learn that the oil change history is wholly or partly unknown. This includes, IMO, oil changes completed at the dealer, because it's nearly impossible to be sure they used the right oil and they frequently don't. I had a customer call last week whose cam failed at 135K and he said that for the first 100K the dealer changed his oil and always charged him for non-synthetic, but said they used synthetic. But he didn't know what. This is typical.

I'd bet that any 505.01 rated oil will get you reasonable cam life (reasonable in my mind is 150K). Switching to the correct oil once the cam has started to fail won't do much good, however.

 

[engineerorange]

When I talk to PD owners with failed cams I almost always learn that the oil change history is wholly or partly unknown. This includes, IMO, oil changes completed at the dealer, because it's nearly impossible to be sure they used the right oil and they frequently don't. I had a customer call last week whose cam failed at 135K and he said that for the first 100K the dealer changed his oil and always charged him for non-synthetic, but said they used synthetic. But he didn't know what. This is typical.

Bought my PD brand new. Nobody has ever changed the oil in the car but me. I have always used VW505.01 rated oil that I purchased from ID Parts @ 10k mile intervals. I have the documentation here for every change, and it never went over the 10k mile mark by more than 20 miles. Cam and lifters were wiped out at 74k miles.

I'd bet that any 505.01 rated oil will get you reasonable cam life (reasonable in my mind is 150K). Switching to the correct oil once the cam has started to fail won't do much good, however .

Apparently it would have taken at least 2 original cams to make it to 150k miles using VW 505.01 rate oil.
Now I am a full fledged, card carrying member of the TDT mafia.

 

[Henrick]

Bought my PD brand new. Nobody has ever changed the oil in the car but me. I have always used VW505.01 rated oil that I purchased from ID Parts @ 10k mile intervals. I have the documentation here for every change, and it never went over the 10k mile mark by more than 20 miles. Cam and lifters were wiped out at 74k miles.



Apparently it would have taken at least 2 original cams to make it to 150k miles using VW 505.01 rate oil.
Now I am a full fledged, card carrying member of the TDT mafia.

Did you use (if yes, then how many OCIs) the 5w-30 flavour of the 505.01?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Bought my PD brand new. Nobody has ever changed the oil in the car but me. I have always used VW505.01 rated oil that I purchased from ID Parts @ 10k mile intervals. I have the documentation here for every change, and it never went over the 10k mile mark by more than 20 miles. Cam and lifters were wiped out at 74k miles.

Apparently it would have taken at least 2 original cams to make it to 150k miles using VW 505.01 rate oil.
Now I am a full fledged, card carrying member of the TDT mafia.

Wow. Worse than I thought. Hope the TDT does better by you.

 

[Jnitrofish]

Bought my PD brand new. Nobody has ever changed the oil in the car but me. I have always used VW505.01 rated oil that I purchased from ID Parts @ 10k mile intervals. I have the documentation here for every change, and it never went over the 10k mile mark by more than 20 miles. Cam and lifters were wiped out at 74k miles.



Apparently it would have taken at least 2 original cams to make it to 150k miles using VW 505.01 rate oil.
Now I am a full fledged, card carrying member of the TDT mafia.

I would be interested in knowing which 505.01 you used, just for comparison seeing how I had a similar experience. In other words please don't tell me it was Castrol SLX Pro OE.

 

[Herm TDI]

I have a local customer with a BRM. Currently has 180K miles.
He has used Rotella T6 from the very first oil change.
I asked him about the warrenty issue when the car was new. His answer then (as now) was "I trust Rotella T6 5-W40" .
Who am I to argue ?

As of two weeks ago (another oil change) this car has never even had a check engine light (same damn glow plugs it left the factory with).

 

[Z-MAN1]

D-cell congrats on the new cam and positive dealer service experience, although the low mileage failure doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Curious how did you open the dialogue with the dealer about your cam issue?
hint hint.....

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

D-cell congrats on the new cam and positive dealer service experience, although the low mileage failure doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Curious how did you open the dialogue with the dealer about your cam issue?
hint hint.....

Basically I went in and made an appointment in person and told them what they were to inspect. I went in with all of my receipts, they didn't even look at them.

The day of the appointment, which I waited, they called me to show them what exactly they were looking for. So I showed them, and they called VW to see what they wanted to do. They asked for pictures, so they took some and sent em in. After about 45mins they were granted warranty on cam, followers, bearings, and associated hardware. At that point I asked what it would cost for the timing belt and associated parts would to be replaced at the same time since I was at 71,xxx miles. They gave me a quote and I excepted.

I made another appointment for the work to be completed. I also asked them to hold the parts for my inspection, and they did. All in all they really pleased me, just like they did when they replaced my DMF.

So when ever you want to inspect your cam, just let me know we can do it in about an hour start to finish.

 

[engineerorange]

Did you use (if yes, then how many OCIs) the 5w-30 flavour of the 505.01?

I did run ELF 5w30 505.01 for 2 oil change intervals.

 

[engineerorange]

I would be interested in knowing which 505.01 you used, just for comparison seeing how I had a similar experience. In other words please don't tell me it was Castrol SLX Pro OE.

5k miles: Elf 5W40
10k miles: Elf 5W40
20k miles: Elf 5W40
30k miles: Elf 5W40
40k miles: Elf 5W30
50k miles: Elf 5W30
60k miles: Pentosyn 5W40
70k miles: Pentosyn 5W40
74k miles: New AC Compressor, New DMF, New Cam, New Lifters, New deluxe timing belt kit and New engine oil (M1 TDT).

 

[turbocharged798]

This thread makes my theory that 505.01 actually causes cam failures look more and more realistic.

In the meantime I will continue to run nothing but T6 in my BEW and motor onto 200K miles with the original cam. VW can keep their 505.01 bull $#!& as far as I am concerned.