NEW 28F6/T9 Glow plug recall for 04-05 TDI

[turbocharged798]

Nope. You will need to take them out. If they are still Bosch ones, there is a chance the tip can break off and drop into the cylinder. Then you will be pulling the head.....

 

[EXrider]

So, if they are the ceramic ones, I'm screwed and my only resort is to either:

A. Pay someone else to load another tune that works with the revised steel GP's.

Or B. let the stealer load their lame firmware on my ECU. Additionally, I risk breaking the tips off just by removing them to see which kind they are.

There's no option C: Purchase new reliable GP's that work with the stock GP algorithms in sub-zero ℉ climates.

Sorry if all of this has been answered before, the search function kinda sucks around here and I'm also reading a lot of conflicting info. Just wanna be straight on all of this.

 

[pyankura]

C. Call kerma, explain situation. I am sure they will help you in anyway they can. I think they will loan(with security deposit?) a Q-loader to right the situation.
Let the dealer take the risk of snapping a plug, and they will give you a freshly remanned head if they do.
Then you load in the updated software and kerma tune and happy motoring!

 

[Hooty]

I had mine done a few months ago and part of the recall is an EPROM Re-Flash to set up the glow plug circuit for the new metal glow plugs. However my car has been down on power and the cruise control surges at highway speed since the recall. The dealer says "It shouldn't have any effect on the cruise control because that was not part of the recall".
Having a bit of experience in electronoics theory and computer control systems I am skeptical of their response.

Anytime a CPU is reset, for whatever reason, there is a possibility of bits or bytes being dropped or disturbed. I'm not sure if this is the case here but my problems arose after the recall was performed.
I have requested a re-flash of the CPU which the dealer is happy to perform, provided I pay for an hour of labour to do it.

Anyone have any thoughts on how I should proceed from here?

 

[TDIdragon]

This may start some fires, but I can't resist asking...

Has anyone asked the dealership if they will provide you with the new glow plugs that are used on the recall so that you or another shop/mechanic can install the new glow plugs?

Just curious.

 

[TdiTaff]

Hooty, Is you car tuned?
I did the recall myself, bought the new Gplugs and module from ID parts then asked Mark malone to base my tune on the new VW software.
If you're thinking of getting a tune then you could do the same.
the reason for this was because the dealer I went to in Denver (Larry H Millar) would not complete the recall without demonstrating the hard cold weather starting themselves - obviously not possible in April! So they wanted me to pay for 'Diagnosis' and if they couldn't reproduce the fault I would be charged the labour rate for there time etc. they messed me about for 2 days so I took the initiative and excluded them.

 

[73veedubya]

has anybody had the new ones fail yet? im pulling a p0671 code on cold starts.....and ive had the recall done...

 

[d-man]

I am also getting the p0671 code, and its not really cold yet.

 

[73veedubya]

well i had ordered 4 before the recall...an i changed out that plug and havent pulled that code since...

 

[ik0n]

I am also getting the p0671 code, and its not really cold yet.

Same here, every now and then the code will throw.

 

[rex_1_mn]

So I am not sure if I should go get this done or not. 2005 PD that started great with the ceramics in it got the first recall and it starts like crap. Put in a frost heater that I love but there isnt a plug in everywhere.

How long is the second recall open for?

It would be awsome to have a car that starts good again but with you guys getting these codes I am not sure what to do.


Thanks
Tony

 

[turbocharged798]

So I am not sure if I should go get this done or not. 2005 PD that started great with the ceramics in it got the first recall and it starts like crap. Put in a frost heater that I love but there isnt a plug in everywhere.

How long is the second recall open for?

It would be awsome to have a car that starts good again but with you guys getting these codes I am not sure what to do.


Thanks
Tony

Until the end of the year. These guys are getting codes because they have bad harnesses.

 

[CGDoig]

5 degrees this morning (-15 C), car started first key cycle and crank. No fuel additive, regular shell diesel. Maybe vw actually did it right this time. By the way I've gotten a thrown code, but I'm pretty sure it's a bad harness as well. its so intermittent that it doesn't matter anyways.

 

[jima1]

Until the end of the year. These guys are getting codes because they have bad harnesses.

Sounds like I need to get going on this and get it done before year-end... are there any pitfalls to avoid talking with dealer about this? e.g. other stuff (like the harness) they will try to replace and charge for?
No doubt some (many?) will have bad harnesses, but does that also explain the one with "down on power and the cruise control surges at highway speed" ? I've waited a long time and am up to 143k still starting fine, will have to go out of my way to get it done, want to be completely sure it's not going to get messed up and cause trouble where so far there is none.....

 

[KERMA]

Ok, what's the deal on this recall? I got the letter in the mail stating that I need it. Problem is, I had Kerma load a tune on my ECU back at TDI fest in '08 and I do NOT have a Q-loader. I haven't had any CEL, glowplug issues, or problems starting in sub-zero midwestern winter weather in the past 4 years I've owned this car. Do I need to be worried about my glowplug tips breaking off? I'd really prefer not to lose this $400 tune on my ECU.

Our tuning customers should give us a call. Even if you don't own a Q-loader, we have options for you to consider that will help ease the stress that comes from the uncertainty of not knowing.

Friendly reminder: If you have a Q-loader, be sure to return to stock programming before going in to the dealer, and it's a bit less hassle during the visit, and lot more convenient to re-tune afterwards.

 

[halocline]

I thought the warranty extension went until October 2012. Anybody know what the fate of the 5V bosch steel plugs will be? Are they now discontinued and no longer available as replacements, or will they stay in stock? Remember this isn't a recall, it's a warranty extension, so (at least last time I heard) you had to complain about cold starting to get the new 7V NGK plugs. To me that implies that they need to keep stocking the 5V plugs for those who do not get the 7V.

 

[turbocharged798]

No, its "emission service action". What it means is that ALL 04-06 BEW/BHW engined cars apply regardless of history or current problems.

 

[halocline]

I think the emissions service action 28F6/T9 only applies to cars that did not get the original 28E6/R8 done, i.e. cars that still have the original 7V bosch plugs. For those of us with the steel 5V plugs, the letter says "warranty extension" until 10/31/12, and you have to have a problem with cold starting.

Unless they've since changed it to include all cars that had the bosch plugs as OEM. But, if that's the case, they never sent me a letter and on the VW website when I plug in my VIN it says "no open recalls or campaigns."

I'd like to get this recall done before I get a tune, but I have two concerns. 1) The last time I brought my car to the VW dealer, a 3 month siege of terror ensued, and 2) I'm a bit concerned that the new NGKs might be a bit fragile....3 of the original bosch broke in my car.

 

[FordGuy100]

What glow plugs are we supposed to be running now? I'm reading circles. Will VCDS tell me which glow plugs I have (or what voltage goes to them at least?)

 

[DeliveryValve]

7 volt ceramic Bosch N10591601 - You don't want these original factory installed plugs because they have a habit of breaking off their ceramic tips and destroying the engine. Or if they break during removal of the GP it requires the cylinder head to come off to get to the broken pieces.

5 volt steel Bosch N10591607 - From the 28E6/R8 recall starting in 2009 and now closed. These plugs were installed with software changes on a reflashed ECM. But later it was found that a hard starting situation occurred in many vehicles when temperatures were around 0º F or below.
Advantages of the steel plug is it will not break off and destroy the engine. The disadvantage is although they are currently still available through the Dealerships and some retail outlets they may not be available in the future. The 28E6/R8 software update may not allow of smooth 0º F cold starting, many members here on the forum have had an aftermarket ECM "tune" software like RocketChip that works well with the 5v glow plugs in 0º F or below situations.

7 volt ceramic NGK N10591609 - From the 28F6/T9 warranty extension starting in Jan 2011 until October 31, 2012. These Glow Plugs along with a new Glow Plug Control Module (no changes in the Passat) and ECM Update Flash, fixed the 0º F or below cold starting issues the 5v Bosch plugs had. They are ceramic tipped, so durability issues may or may not come up in the future. It does however have a steel sheath around the ceramic except for the very tip to strengthen it.
Many have had very good results using these plugs. The problem that many are facing is this is not a mandatory recall. So it has been at a dealership's discretion to proceed with this action. Most have gotten this action by merely saying the car has a "hard starting situation". While other dealerships need proof of hard starting or have no clue that this service action exist.


You will have to go with what you are more comfortable with. If you don't have a cold starting issue, then keeping the 5v Bosch steel plugs for durability maybe best. But if you have cold starting issues, then maybe 7v NGK ceramic plugs are best. You'll need to figure that out yourself.




.

 

[turbocharged798]

I feel for the poor people who have to buy replacement glow plugs for the BEW cars years from now. Imagine some guy 10 years form now who never been on tdiclub or ever heard about the glow plug recall trying to get a replacement glow plug for his BEW/BHW. Who knows even if the dealers will have a clue what glow plugs to use in what car.

This is exactly why ALL BEW/BHW cars should be recalled and NGK 09 glow plugs be installed to keep things consistent. Nothing is worse that random different glow plugs is different cars.

 

[DeliveryValve]

It's already screwed up in the aftermarket world. I ordered a set of part number N10591607 at my favorite local parts supplier a few weeks ago. Thinking that it would be Bosch plugs but wondered why the price was so much cheaper then other online places, what came in was a Meyle glow plug that was 11 volts. I never conveyed that I wanted Bosch plugs to the parts guy and the N10591607 defaulted to those plugs upon lookup. So with a little searching, he was able to get the proper 5v Bosch plugs.
The future is here, this is a big mess today. I am sure some unknowing people have all sorts incorrect glow plugs installed in their cars already.



.

 

[Tbone77]

I've got the 5v steel plugs in
my car. I called the dealer and they said that they have to find a problem or it will not be covered and I'd be stuck with the diag cost.

My car starts fine at the moment so I'm not too worried about it. Maybe I should just buy a set of spare plugs right now to have on hand

 

[johnboy00]

IIRC, there don't seem to be cases where the plugs work and then don't work. So if you have steel plugs and they worked through last winter, you will probably never have a problem unless the plugs fail.

As far as plug availability, VW had to procure at least 50,000 of these (for 04/05 Passats) plus enough to supply all jetta/golfs that needed them. I don't think they'll be running out any time soon. But like DeliveryValve says, you may need to be specific about what part number you need.

 

[Lightflyer1]

After looking back through the thread I see no one has posted part numbers for the other relays or control modules needed for this. Could someone who has had this done post those please?

 

[DeliveryValve]

After looking back through the thread I see no one has posted part numbers for the other relays or control modules needed for this. Could someone who has had this done post those please?

For the 28F6/T9 service action from the TSB. Just the ECM reflash, glow plugs and glow plug control module. No other relays required.
From the TSB..

Section A - Golf, Jetta/Jetta Wagon, and New Beetle:

Installing New Glow Plugs, Glow Plug Control Module, and Engine Control Module Update - Programming (Flashing) using Software Version Management (SVM)

NGK Short ceramic Glow Plug = N 105 916 09 = quantity 4

Glow Plug Control Module = 038 907 281 D = quantity 1

New Beetle/ New Beetle Cabrio 1.9L = Software PN 038997016S, Version 0283, SVM unit code 3456

Golf /Jetta/Jetta Wagon 1.9L = Software PN 038997016R, Version 0282, SVM unit code 3456

For the 28F6/T9 service action on the Passat, just ECM reflash and glow plugs only. From the TSB..

Section B – Passat/Passat Wagon:

Installing New Glow Plugs, and Engine Control Module Update - Programming (Flashing) using Software Version Management (SVM).

NGK Short ceramic Glow Plug = N 105 916 09 = quantity 4

Passat/ Passat Wagon = Software PN 038997016T, Version 0314, SVM unit code 3456

 

[Lightflyer1]

Thank you!

 

[Lightflyer1]

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/ has the GP and module for $98. I will be trying the dealer one more time Wednesday morning for the TSB service. If they fail again I will buy and install the parts and take it in for the reflash. Wonder what that alone will cost me?

 

[halocline]

I couldn't find the current 7V ngks on the idparts website. I found the 5V steel bosch. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[PDJetta]

Come to think about it, I don't think I saw them either. You can always e-mail Peter there and ask him as to the status of them.

--Nate