I opted for the 5v steelies, purchased and installed by myself with no reflash. That was several years ago with no problems. At the time I had checked the voltage at the GP harness on a cold engine; it flashed @ 7v for a second or two and then came down to 5.0 volts at 903 rpm. The voltage did increase with rpm and did not turn off and on over or under 2500 rpm.
NEW 28F6/T9 Glow plug recall for 04-05 TDI
- Thread starter db252
- Start date
digging up this thread from a while ago...
i called the VW dealer here in Phoenix, and he suggested that having the software update only makes a different with VERY cold weather. i've been having all kinds of issues regarding cold start-rough idle-low power-low MPGs, i think its rooted in some other causes as well, but should i still get VW to update the software?? i replaced the glow plugs when i first bought the car, so those are taken care of. but the software wasn't (a regular auto shop did a ton of stuff when i first bought the car)...
thoughts? do this if all the other attempts don't work out? or do it anyway?
i called the VW dealer here in Phoenix, and he suggested that having the software update only makes a different with VERY cold weather. i've been having all kinds of issues regarding cold start-rough idle-low power-low MPGs, i think its rooted in some other causes as well, but should i still get VW to update the software?? i replaced the glow plugs when i first bought the car, so those are taken care of. but the software wasn't (a regular auto shop did a ton of stuff when i first bought the car)...
thoughts? do this if all the other attempts don't work out? or do it anyway?
Demon Diesel
Veteran Member
I'm going to start off by saying that I wouldn't use numbers recorded from a multimeter when it comes to GP voltages. The initial burst you see is typically energy based and can vary based on a number of things. The steady state value you read also varies based on a number of variables (temp, voltage, RMP, IQ). The best way to see which software you have is to simply log in with VCDS and check your software part number. This number changes whenever they made an update.
Now all that being said. Typically there are only 3 different software versions available each North American PD engine. Original (7V Ceramic). Update1 (5V steel), Update2 (7V Ceramic Tip Only).
Original Ceramic GPs are no longer available.
5V Steel plugs in either of the 7V version of software can work but will reduce the life of the plug. It actually works better than with the 5V software itself. I ran this way for a year without even knowing.
7V Ceramic Tip GPs can work with either 7V software but you will see some improvements with the update 7V software. 7V GPs on 5V software is not recommended simply because they will not perform well and make it hard to start.
All and all the best setup is 7V GPs with the latest 7V code. If you have 5V GPs and don't mind having them burn up quicker on you then run the latest 7V code with them. Then you can replace them with the 7V GPs.
The latest 7V GPs come in two forms. The main difference between them are cost and length. I've tried both and didn't notice a difference so for that reason I would opt for the cheaper 7V GP with Ceramic Tip. Combine this with the latest 7V code and you have a good starting engine.
Low MPG likely means something else is wrong (MAF, Cam, or maybe timing).
Now all that being said. Typically there are only 3 different software versions available each North American PD engine. Original (7V Ceramic). Update1 (5V steel), Update2 (7V Ceramic Tip Only).
Original Ceramic GPs are no longer available.
5V Steel plugs in either of the 7V version of software can work but will reduce the life of the plug. It actually works better than with the 5V software itself. I ran this way for a year without even knowing.
7V Ceramic Tip GPs can work with either 7V software but you will see some improvements with the update 7V software. 7V GPs on 5V software is not recommended simply because they will not perform well and make it hard to start.
All and all the best setup is 7V GPs with the latest 7V code. If you have 5V GPs and don't mind having them burn up quicker on you then run the latest 7V code with them. Then you can replace them with the 7V GPs.
The latest 7V GPs come in two forms. The main difference between them are cost and length. I've tried both and didn't notice a difference so for that reason I would opt for the cheaper 7V GP with Ceramic Tip. Combine this with the latest 7V code and you have a good starting engine.
Low MPG likely means something else is wrong (MAF, Cam, or maybe timing).
I have a 2004 Jetta TDI with the BEW PD engine and 185,000 km on it.
It started throwing P0672 for a bad #2 glow plug. I checked the resistance on the plugs and they're all 0.7 ohms roughly, except #2 which is 3.5 ohms.
I've been doing some reading on these plugs and have learned a lot.
The plugs I have in the car are the 5v Bosch steel plugs. I had the first recall done to replace the ceramic ones. I got a notice of the second recall but it stated it was only for cars experiencing hard or no starts, and I for some reason believed it was only to change the ECU programming, I didn't realize there was a change of plugs to go with it. So I never had it done as I didn't have any issues starting cold, other than what you'd expect from a diesel.
Last winter I had parked the car outside while I was out of town for two weeks. When I got back and went to start it, it was not plugged in, hadn't been plugged in, and at the time it was -33C and -48 with the wind. So it was good and cold. I had to boost it as the battery couldn't turn it over, but with a boost it started. The battery died completely last summer and was replaced. I believe it was the original, so it was pretty old.
So I've read on these forums that the new 7v steel coated ceramic plugs provide better starting, and better driving with the ECU flash, than the 5v plugs. But, I'm inclined to say that there are no issues with my starting ability with my current 5v plugs.
I've found that 5v plugs are still available for purchase, but they're rare and expensive. A set of the new ones goes for about the same price as a single 5v does.
So my options are:
1) replace all 5v plugs with new 5v plugs, at a fairly high cost.
2) replace one of the 5v plugs.
3) replace all the plugs with the new 7v plugs.
My concern with options 1 and 2 are that the plugs are going to just keep getting more rare and more expensive. Whether or not I'll ever have to change them again though, I don't know, but if I do down the road, it might be impossible and I'll have to go with option 3 at that point anyway. If I go with option 1, I can keep the three good plugs at least and hopefully re-use them if I ever have another dead plug again. Maybe.
Option 3 requires reflashing the ECU, which requires downtime. I understand that if I found a dealer that could do it, it might not be a big deal. That's a big if though, and I can't stand taking my car to the dealers here. I also understand there's at least one company in the US that can do it if I ship the ECU to them. That of course means days of downtime and I'm not sure of the expense. The other problem with option 3 is that I've read that even with the steel coated ceramic plugs, there are still reports of tips breaking off of them. Which again leads me to think that I shouldn't fix what isn't broke, with regards to my current steel plugs.
So, with all of that, I'm just looking for some advice on which way to go, or whether there are more/better options out there.
It started throwing P0672 for a bad #2 glow plug. I checked the resistance on the plugs and they're all 0.7 ohms roughly, except #2 which is 3.5 ohms.
I've been doing some reading on these plugs and have learned a lot.
The plugs I have in the car are the 5v Bosch steel plugs. I had the first recall done to replace the ceramic ones. I got a notice of the second recall but it stated it was only for cars experiencing hard or no starts, and I for some reason believed it was only to change the ECU programming, I didn't realize there was a change of plugs to go with it. So I never had it done as I didn't have any issues starting cold, other than what you'd expect from a diesel.
Last winter I had parked the car outside while I was out of town for two weeks. When I got back and went to start it, it was not plugged in, hadn't been plugged in, and at the time it was -33C and -48 with the wind. So it was good and cold. I had to boost it as the battery couldn't turn it over, but with a boost it started. The battery died completely last summer and was replaced. I believe it was the original, so it was pretty old.
So I've read on these forums that the new 7v steel coated ceramic plugs provide better starting, and better driving with the ECU flash, than the 5v plugs. But, I'm inclined to say that there are no issues with my starting ability with my current 5v plugs.
I've found that 5v plugs are still available for purchase, but they're rare and expensive. A set of the new ones goes for about the same price as a single 5v does.
So my options are:
1) replace all 5v plugs with new 5v plugs, at a fairly high cost.
2) replace one of the 5v plugs.
3) replace all the plugs with the new 7v plugs.
My concern with options 1 and 2 are that the plugs are going to just keep getting more rare and more expensive. Whether or not I'll ever have to change them again though, I don't know, but if I do down the road, it might be impossible and I'll have to go with option 3 at that point anyway. If I go with option 1, I can keep the three good plugs at least and hopefully re-use them if I ever have another dead plug again. Maybe.
Option 3 requires reflashing the ECU, which requires downtime. I understand that if I found a dealer that could do it, it might not be a big deal. That's a big if though, and I can't stand taking my car to the dealers here. I also understand there's at least one company in the US that can do it if I ship the ECU to them. That of course means days of downtime and I'm not sure of the expense. The other problem with option 3 is that I've read that even with the steel coated ceramic plugs, there are still reports of tips breaking off of them. Which again leads me to think that I shouldn't fix what isn't broke, with regards to my current steel plugs.
So, with all of that, I'm just looking for some advice on which way to go, or whether there are more/better options out there.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
I don't think anyone is experiencing any breakage with the current ceramic 7v plugs. These are similar to the ones in the BRM, which have been trouble free.
I'm not sure you'll find a dealer who will do a reflash. I recently spoke to a customer who was in Colorado, but lives in Virginia, and he couldn't find a dealer who would re-flash the ecu in either state. I'm not sure the software is still available to them. His car wasn't eligible for the second recall, which we've heard often. I don't know how VW made that decision.
The 5v plugs are readily available, but are more expensive. $38.95 versus $10.25 for ceramic on our site. I expect the ceramic ones will become more expensive at some point. VW often discounts prices on parts that are involved in recalls, but it doesn't last forever.
If you're happy with the steel plugs, and if you're concerned about the ceramics breaking, I stick with steel. No hassle, and I don't think they're going obsolete anytime soon. If you decide to go back to 7v I think your option will be to have a tuner reflash your ecu for the higher voltage plugs.
Hope this helps.
I'm not sure you'll find a dealer who will do a reflash. I recently spoke to a customer who was in Colorado, but lives in Virginia, and he couldn't find a dealer who would re-flash the ecu in either state. I'm not sure the software is still available to them. His car wasn't eligible for the second recall, which we've heard often. I don't know how VW made that decision.
The 5v plugs are readily available, but are more expensive. $38.95 versus $10.25 for ceramic on our site. I expect the ceramic ones will become more expensive at some point. VW often discounts prices on parts that are involved in recalls, but it doesn't last forever.
If you're happy with the steel plugs, and if you're concerned about the ceramics breaking, I stick with steel. No hassle, and I don't think they're going obsolete anytime soon. If you decide to go back to 7v I think your option will be to have a tuner reflash your ecu for the higher voltage plugs.
Hope this helps.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
No, but we also don't get any warning.
Fasteddie10
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Location
- Illinois
- TDI
- 2004 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2-2005 Passat Wagon TDIs, 2-2004 Passat Wagon TDIs
Glow Plug Recall
Just had the recall performed on my 04 Jetta in February. Would not start below 10 Deg F. I checked the glow plug voltage, started at 10.4 volts for a second, then dropped to 5v. This was with the 7 volt glow plugs installed. So the return trip to the dealer installed the 5 volt glow plugs. However they re-flashed the computer so I lost my Tune again. Waiting for Malone to send my tune again...
I took the car in just because the recall had not been performed. It had been starting good.
Just had the recall performed on my 04 Jetta in February. Would not start below 10 Deg F. I checked the glow plug voltage, started at 10.4 volts for a second, then dropped to 5v. This was with the 7 volt glow plugs installed. So the return trip to the dealer installed the 5 volt glow plugs. However they re-flashed the computer so I lost my Tune again. Waiting for Malone to send my tune again...
I took the car in just because the recall had not been performed. It had been starting good.
Daryl
Veteran Member
Just had the recall done after years of rough starts. It was getting harder to start and it turned out that I needed a new starter and cam shaft position sensor, my VW wrench mentioned the recall since everything he did would not solve the difficult/rough start. I bit the bullet and took it to the dealership.
The car will now fire up at -20 Celsius like it is hot summer day with very little rough idle afterwards. The difference is nothing short of astounding. My VIN was not covered by the recall and I had to pay out of pocket but it was not that expensive ($400 tax in) and even though it should have been covered by VW it was worth it. It is like having a new car. My '01 ALH will start in almost any temp (some rough idle afterwoards) but the BEW was always a rough starter and now is simply amazing.
The car will now fire up at -20 Celsius like it is hot summer day with very little rough idle afterwards. The difference is nothing short of astounding. My VIN was not covered by the recall and I had to pay out of pocket but it was not that expensive ($400 tax in) and even though it should have been covered by VW it was worth it. It is like having a new car. My '01 ALH will start in almost any temp (some rough idle afterwoards) but the BEW was always a rough starter and now is simply amazing.
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HPsenicka
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Location
- Orangeville, Ontario
- TDI
- 2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
Where did you have this work done? My BEW is miserable in cold weather.
Daryl
Veteran Member
Guelph VW did the work and they were more than easy to work with, they knew all about the issue and were happy to let me supply the parts. Georgetown VW was not helpful or easy to work with at all nor ever has been for me. Your car may fall under the range of VIN's that would qualify it for the TSB campaign and you may not have to pay.
Before you get the TSB work done I would make sure that there are no other underlying issues. My BEW needed a new Camshaft position sensor, coolant temperature sensor and ultimately a new starter. I normally bring my VW's to Wroth Automotive in Erin, not far from you. They are VW specialist and very good, very knowledgeable and very honest.
I can tell you that the new plugs, module and computer software flash has made this the easiest car I have ever started in very cold temps.
PM or email me if you want a copy of the TSB and the quote from the dealer for parts and labour.
Before you get the TSB work done I would make sure that there are no other underlying issues. My BEW needed a new Camshaft position sensor, coolant temperature sensor and ultimately a new starter. I normally bring my VW's to Wroth Automotive in Erin, not far from you. They are VW specialist and very good, very knowledgeable and very honest.
I can tell you that the new plugs, module and computer software flash has made this the easiest car I have ever started in very cold temps.
PM or email me if you want a copy of the TSB and the quote from the dealer for parts and labour.
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HPsenicka
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Location
- Orangeville, Ontario
- TDI
- 2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
Thanks! I will have to look into this.
Which glow plugs did you end with?
Which glow plugs did you end with?
Daryl
Veteran Member
N 105 916 09 NGK Short Glow Plug (about $15/plug) as per the TSB
038 907 281 D Glow Plug Control Module (about $90) as per the TSB
2 hours labour including the software flash which MUST be done. I would have put in the parts myself and just had them do the flash but you can not run the car with the new parts without the flash. It was about 1 hour of shop time to instal the parts and 1 hour for the flash. All money well spent the 1st time you start the car on a cold morning!
038 907 281 D Glow Plug Control Module (about $90) as per the TSB
2 hours labour including the software flash which MUST be done. I would have put in the parts myself and just had them do the flash but you can not run the car with the new parts without the flash. It was about 1 hour of shop time to instal the parts and 1 hour for the flash. All money well spent the 1st time you start the car on a cold morning!
HPsenicka
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Location
- Orangeville, Ontario
- TDI
- 2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
Thanks again!!
HPsenicka
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Location
- Orangeville, Ontario
- TDI
- 2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
Does anyone know whether a tuner like Malone can flash the appropriate changes for a new set of glow plugs?
I'm considering getting a tune anyway... can I take care of this at the same time, or do the glow plugs needs to be swapped and the ECU flashed by the dealer before any tuning occurs?
I'm considering getting a tune anyway... can I take care of this at the same time, or do the glow plugs needs to be swapped and the ECU flashed by the dealer before any tuning occurs?
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
Yup, any tuner should be able to take care of that for you.
GrassTDI
New member
Just wondering i have a cold start problem (-15C and lower) with my 05 Golf TDI BEW engine. I have 5Volt Bosch glow plugs installed, all of them worked when I bought the car 6 months ago (less then 8K driven), but 2 are already done. When checking for the Voltage across the glow plug my multimeter reads around 3.5-4V with no spikes. My check engine light is on, and the error codes tell me Glow Plug #1 and #3 are faulty but they are the one that are actually working #2 and #4 are the toasted ones. I could it be possible that the ECU is running 7V to the glow plugs and thus frying them?
Also is there any way to check with a VAG COM which voltage the ECU is supplying to the glow plugs.
Also is there any way to check with a VAG COM which voltage the ECU is supplying to the glow plugs.
Demon Diesel
Veteran Member
Keep in mind many of the alh had the glow plugs wired in the reverse order. I think some new and bhw had the same issue.
I don't trust voltage measurements with a multimeter for this. I would start with vcds ecu part number verified with the checksum to make sure it's an original.
I don't trust voltage measurements with a multimeter for this. I would start with vcds ecu part number verified with the checksum to make sure it's an original.
HPsenicka
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Location
- Orangeville, Ontario
- TDI
- 2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
How can one identify the type of GP to be used using VCDS?
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
You can't, pull the plug and look at it.
turbocharged798
Veteran Member
You can, VCDS shows software version in the main screen. Its in numeric form so you will have to do a bit of digging to find out what glow plugs it relates to.
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
If someone just dropped 5v steelies in there, this isn't going to help.
turbocharged798
Veteran Member
Its sure does help you know what plugs the car is tuned for.
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
Sure, but that wasn't the question was it.
Demon Diesel
Veteran Member
Sounds like he'd like to know the correct GP to use, not what is currently installed. VCDS number (specifically the last two letters) is what you need.
038 906 016 ?? (may also be something like 038 997 016 ??). Also if you scrol through the measuring blocks you should be able to see one that has a checksum value. Usually a 4 digit alpha-numberic (HEX) value. Post this info and I'll compare with the info I have.
buttonfly
Veteran Member
How can I identify current GP tune?
OK, so my ’04 BEW went to the dealer for the Glow Plug TSB back in ‘09, but I didn’t take it back for the second TSB. I am new to the VCDS. How do I use the VCDS to check which tune I have? Or, really what I need to know, what Voltage is being fed to my glow plugs, so I can choose a correct GP (because I need to replace one that’s gone bad).
OK, so my ’04 BEW went to the dealer for the Glow Plug TSB back in ‘09, but I didn’t take it back for the second TSB. I am new to the VCDS. How do I use the VCDS to check which tune I have? Or, really what I need to know, what Voltage is being fed to my glow plugs, so I can choose a correct GP (because I need to replace one that’s gone bad).
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
My guess would be it has 5v steel plugs. The first recall was to switch to 5v steel, the second to switch back to 7v ceramic, but a better design. VCDS won't tell you. You could call a dealer with your VIN to verify.
banmoi75
Member
HELP NEEDED WITH A DISHONEST VW DEALER:
I brought my Passat 2005 tdi last week to my local dealer for the glow plug recall because I had the error code: 17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
I had the steel Bosch GP before I gave the car to the dealer in the early morning.
I also asked them to perform the brake light switch recall on the same car.
The dealer called my in the afternoon to pickup the car and said everything was done.
The invoice report said:
- Perform N400 Brake Switch: Replace brake light switch with 1K2-945-511-RDW
Claim type: 710
- Perform 28F6 Glow Plugs and Software: Perform ECM software update, clear DTCs
4 N-105-916-09 Glow Plug
Claim Type: 710
I drove the car for 2 days and the check engine comes on. I plug the VCDS in and got the same error code: 17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
Yesterday Sunday, I took out the glow plug on cylinder 1 and to my surprise... It was my old worn out steel Bosch glow plug!!!
I checked the brake light switch: It is still the old black version!!!
Now I suspect that they did not do anything to my car.
Can anyone tell me if they updated my ECM software?
This is what VCDS is currently reading:
Sunday,10,April,2016,10:58:31:05104
VCDS Version: Release 15.7.4 Running on Windows XP x86
www.Ross-Tech.com
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 T HW: 028 101 198 2
Component and/or Version: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 0314
Software Coding: 0150034
Work Shop Code: WSC 30682 002 1048576
VCID: AF6754403D0E3C4657-513C
1 Fault Found:
17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 190.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001011
Temperature: 19.8°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000
Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0
Can anyone tell me IF i am having the correct updated software version?
What can I do now? This is my word against the dealer service department...
Thanks in advance for any help!
I brought my Passat 2005 tdi last week to my local dealer for the glow plug recall because I had the error code: 17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
I had the steel Bosch GP before I gave the car to the dealer in the early morning.
I also asked them to perform the brake light switch recall on the same car.
The dealer called my in the afternoon to pickup the car and said everything was done.
The invoice report said:
- Perform N400 Brake Switch: Replace brake light switch with 1K2-945-511-RDW
Claim type: 710
- Perform 28F6 Glow Plugs and Software: Perform ECM software update, clear DTCs
4 N-105-916-09 Glow Plug
Claim Type: 710
I drove the car for 2 days and the check engine comes on. I plug the VCDS in and got the same error code: 17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
Yesterday Sunday, I took out the glow plug on cylinder 1 and to my surprise... It was my old worn out steel Bosch glow plug!!!
I checked the brake light switch: It is still the old black version!!!
Now I suspect that they did not do anything to my car.
Can anyone tell me if they updated my ECM software?
This is what VCDS is currently reading:
Sunday,10,April,2016,10:58:31:05104
VCDS Version: Release 15.7.4 Running on Windows XP x86
www.Ross-Tech.com
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 T HW: 028 101 198 2
Component and/or Version: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 0314
Software Coding: 0150034
Work Shop Code: WSC 30682 002 1048576
VCID: AF6754403D0E3C4657-513C
1 Fault Found:
17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 000 - Electrical Fault
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 190.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001011
Temperature: 19.8°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000
Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0
Can anyone tell me IF i am having the correct updated software version?
What can I do now? This is my word against the dealer service department...
Thanks in advance for any help!
gatz
Veteran Member
Yes 0314 is the updated software. See the PDF here under Passat: http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/PD_GlowPlugTechBul_12-2010.pdf
Of course, it could have been flashed years ago. It's not exactly a new update anymore.
gatz
Veteran Member
Also that update should not be done if you have 5V steel plugs. It WILL burn them out. Happened to me. I put a whole new set of plugs in without knowing what the problem was and they burned out in a few weeks. Then I wised up and got the new version 7V plugs and no problem since.