NEW 28F6/T9 Glow plug recall for 04-05 TDI

[Thermo1223]

I just checked in a a dealer for the wagon and it had a GP recall done long ago. I'm guessing they switched to the steel tiped ones? I never had any problems starting this winter so I can't complain.

 

[lynxco88]

glow plug part number

I have 2005 golf TDI and the dealer says it should have GP replaced with NGK N-105-916-08 @ 47.00 a piece.
Can I use the NGK N-105 -916-09 @ 13.00 a piece at the same dealer.
Dealer said the N-105-916-09 where part of a recall that my car does not qualify for.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I had a customer who was told the same thing. Doesn't make sense to me as (a) the plugs ending in 08 are made for the BRM; and (b) both plugs are 7v ceramic plugs, seemingly interchangeable. And FWIW, the dealer is over-charging you. We have the BEW plugs as a set at what I believe is correct dealer retail here, and BRM plugs are $36.95 each on our site, which may be a bit below dealer retail, but probably not a whole lot.

I may be wrong, but if this were my car I'd ask for the plugs ending in 09 and ask the dealer to provide and install the plugs for free. They have some fuzzy rules about when they allow a recall, but I'm sure the dealer has some discretion. Just my .02.

EDIT: Just saw you're in Canada. You may have to adjust prices for exchange rates, but these days not much.

 

[lynxco88]

I have Bosch N 105 916 01 in there now and the tip is broken off on one of them. About 1/4 inch is missing and may be inside engine. One glow plug was replace under warranty abour 3 years ago. Car has 21,000 km on it now.
What GP were part of recall?
Talked to dealer about the broken tip and they said it should not hurt anything and should pass through engine.
Also talked to Vw customer care and they said the could not do anything for me because recall was serial number specific.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[truman]

I have Bosch N 105 916 01 in there now and the tip is broken off on one of them. About 1/4 inch is missing and may be inside engine. One glow plug was replace under warranty abour 3 years ago. Car has 21,000 km on it now.
What GP were part of recall?
Talked to dealer about the broken tip and they said it should not hurt anything and should pass through engine.
Also talked to Vw customer care and they said the could not do anything for me because recall was serial number specific.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Put in the updated glow plugs yourself and pay the dealer to upgrade the software. It's less painless than waiting for the stars to line up.

 

[lynxco88]

Do i need the software upgrade to run the n-105-916-09?
Thanks for all the replys.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

No, you don't. You only need a re-flash if your car was previously re-flashed for the 5v steel plugs.

 

[halocline]

I have the 5V steels, I'm leaving them in. I've never had a cold starting problem because it never gets cold here.....

About the broken ceramic tips, I know for a fact that they can sort-of-pass through the engine. At least one of mine did exactly that, but left marks on a piston and my original turbo failed at about 45K miles. My guess is that if the tip breaks off while the engine is running it could get pulverized so quickly that it doesn't immediately destroy the engine. But it can't be good, especially for the turbo.

If, however, one breaks while the engine is off, for example during removal or installation, and then you (or some hapless dealer mechanic doing the original recall) try to start the engine, the result is immediate. In my case, broken piston, ruined head, dealer claim of no responsibility, threatened lawsuit, VW 'good will' (that's a laugh) repair.

 

[parkcitytodd]

do the 28f6/t9 or not?

i have a 2004 jetta tdi that has the original glow plugs.
the car has no starting issues.
i am considering having the 28f6/t9 service done as per the recall letter i received.
i have read through this thread but still cant decide whether to have it done or not.
am i better off taking the car in for the 28f6/t9 service or not?

 

[turbocharged798]

i have a 2004 jetta tdi that has the original glow plugs.
the car has no starting issues.
i am considering having the 28f6/t9 service done as per the recall letter i received.
i have read through this thread but still cant decide whether to have it done or not.
am i better off taking the car in for the 28f6/t9 service or not?

Yes get it done before it ends.

 

[Richptl]

Yes get it done before it ends.

Let us know if you get the module replaced with the "D" version also. I have the "C" module by mistake, which seems to give about a 9.5 Volt pre-glow and 4.5 volt post-glow pulse. Cold weather coming again soon, will test my car again. I may just decide to spend a few bucks for the "D" version and see if there is any more voltage during the post-glow.

 

[rkovacs]

I am curious if anyone that did the recall ended up having any issues as a result? Like, CEL comming on because a sensor was going out or was not working but just decided to show up immediately after the work was done, loss of power, idle issues, cruse control issues, etc.

 

[redone17]

Booked an appointment for Dec 11th. Glad to see they are still honoring it beyond the aforementioned Oct 31, 2012 cutoff date.

I told them I plan to stick around and want to be present during the process. I'm taking a day off as opposed to having the lady drop it off on the way to work. I'll ask to see the old ceramic plugs before they continue.

My buddy is the parts manager - and I asked him up order the correct parts (4 plugs and control module). I just imagined showing up and being SOL - having to leave the car there is not an option.

Glad to see people are happy with this upgrade.

Once this is done I'll plan to contact Andrew at Malone again before proceeding with my tune plans in regards to these changes.

I'll report back.

 

[gusdog]

I am bringing my 04 TDI BEW sedan in next week for the glow plug recall and the service manager mentioned the re flashing of the ECU. Are there going to be problems because of an aftermarket stereo with the re-flash? I seem to remember reading something about aftermarket stereos messing affecting diagnostic communications.

Thanks!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Nah. People have been saying this for years but I doubt you'll have a problem.

 

[audiphile]

I am bringing my 04 TDI BEW sedan in next week for the glow plug recall and the service manager mentioned the re flashing of the ECU. Are there going to be problems because of an aftermarket stereo with the re-flash? I seem to remember reading something about aftermarket stereos messing affecting diagnostic communications.

Thanks!

This happened on MK3 and B3/B4 Passats. MK4 cars don't have this problem from what I know

 

[redone17]

Get this - Wagon is going in for the recall tomorrow at 8:30am and on the way home from work my girlfriend sends me a pic of the dash with the MIL light on.

Luckily steady yellow.

Just great - perfect timing to bring it into the dealer and they try to overcharge me and exaggerate the issue. So, I do my research and then take it to AutoZone for a free scan (I gotta invest in a VAG-COM/Ross-Tech) - and I have to say - I feel very lucky. It called up P0673 - cylinder 3 glow plug circuit - open or short circuit.

Probable Cause is Either:
A. Poor electrical connection
B. Failed glow plug
C. Glow plug controls system fault

Perfect timing is right.

 

[redone17]

All good! 2.5 hours later I got a free 29 point inspection, new plugs/module/flash, and brake light switch.

They let me take the old plugs home - and all in one piece!

Inspection came back with some issues to take care of: Front shock top mounts and bearings are worn as well as the stabilizer bar bushings...gotta source some parts I guess. Can't complain.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Which plugs did they take out? Which ones went in? Did they do a re-flash? I'm wondering how dealers are handling this now that the recall(s) are getting on in age.

 

[redone17]

They pulled the original Bosch units: N 105 916 01

They put in:
NGK Plugs: N 105 916 09
Control Unit: 038 907 281 D

Reflashed ECU

I placed an order with the parts manager, a buddy of mine, when I made the appointment to make sure they were in stock. I just imagined showing up and them not having the right parts to do the job.

Pleasantly satisfied with my experience with Platinum. They also performed a heater core/bypass valve recall on my 1989 Fox Coupe last year. They tend to take care of me thus far :thumbup:

 

[PDJetta]

All good! 2.5 hours later I got a free 29 point inspection, new plugs/module/flash, and brake light switch.

They let me take the old plugs home - and all in one piece!

Inspection came back with some issues to take care of: Front shock top mounts and bearings are worn as well as the stabilizer bar bushings...gotta source some parts I guess. Can't complain.

Those are definitely the full ceramic Bosch originals. How many miles on them? I read a Bosch article on these and they were to last the life of the engine without failing (but some burn out occassionally). I still have mine, but all four were replaced at 12,000 miles (yes, less than a year of owing the car, new) because one failed. Replaced with the same Bosch full ceramic plugs. They have about 142,000 miles on them now.

--Nate

 

[turbocharged798]

They last the life of the engine because they destroy the engine when they fail....

 

[redone17]

138k on them - I was surprised they let me take them home.

yeah, I am glad I got them swapped out - total coincidence that #3 went out the day before the appointment.

i have not read any reports of the newest NGKs going bad...but maybe too early to tell? are they supposed to be life long usage as well?

 

[shuswap]

138k on them - I was surprised they let me take them home.

yeah, I am glad I got them swapped out - total coincidence that #3 went out the day before the appointment.

i have not read any reports of the newest NGKs going bad...but maybe too early to tell? are they supposed to be life long usage as well?

I've heard nothing about life span for the NGK metal/ceramic tip 7 volt GP, but I've had mine in for almost 2 years now and they look perfect and work pretty well. The engine is a little rough on very cold start-up, but other than that there is no issue of any kind.
I replaced mine when the stock 7V plugs began to fail and I found a significant chunk of ceramic missing. The dealer told me there was no recall support here in Canada, so I bought a set of NGKs from one of the supportive suppliers for $42, all in, and haven't looked back!!

The support from VW is a JOKE! As was their 'fix' for the GP issue. I didn't have to re-flash anything, either.

One reason I like buying used cars is I don't have to fight with anyone to try and get them to do the 'right thing' with respect to warranty or recall. If it's broke...I know who will fix it.....ME! (sometimes with a lil help)

 

[shuswap]

snipped..... Replaced with the same Bosch full ceramic plugs. They have about 142,000 miles on them now.

--Nate

Nate, I'd think seriously about replacing those full ceramic plugs. I had one break a chunk off and having those bits n bites loose in the cylinder....and transiting thru the turbo scares me.
The NGK 7v ceramic-tipped plugs still look good after quite a few miles and they are quite cheap, no re-flash either.

 

[halocline]

I decided to hang with the 5V steelies and somehow survive the harsh winters in San Antonio. The original 7V ceramics broke off in my car causing severe damage, which VW eventually paid for but not without a fight.

 

[gmcleod752]

I want to thank everyone for posting information about the 04 Jetta BEW glow plug problem. In Dec 2009, we too experienced the agony of the no start scenario. One month of working with two dealers and VW of A, no solutions were found. I was able to get the 04 TDI BEW started by adding a frost heater and removing the trailer splices added to my glow plug wire harness which added 8 to 20 ohms of resistance to each wire, rendering no power left for the glow plugs. I was finally able to get about 25 watts to each plug versus the 125 watts from the original system.

I have been calling our local VW dealer for 3 years now, each time, they would pull up the VIN number and advise me there is no campaign. For the time periods from Dec to April from Dec 2009 to April 2012 we could barely get the TDI running. We live at 6600 feet and it is routinely at 0 to 20 deg during winter.

For Dec 2012 to Jan 2013, we have not been able to start the car even with the frost heater on days where it has fallen below Zero. Unusually cold winter this year.

I've been on the phone with local dealer and VW of A. They have acknowledge that 28F6 exists, that my vin number falls within the range of approved VIN Numbers, but yet VW of A refuses to assign 28F6 to my Vin Number so that the dealer has a billing code. Local dealer won't fix it under 28F6 without VW of A approval. I'm pretty much had it with VW of A. Today, I called again and told them, call me back, get on with this job, this will be my last phone call, at end of day I file a complaint.

Note >> I ordered the parts listed on the Forum and will install them myself. I'll check that glow plug timing code and if necessary use a VAG com to adjust the duration of the primary glow plug timing. My gut feel is that the 2009 28E6 campaign work effort by the first dealer did not upgrade the program, as it is not listed on the repair order.

Gave up >> Sent in a complaint to the EPA today. Here's the text of the complaint

If any forum members has anything to add, post it, if EPA contacts me, I'll provide them with the latest information. If there are any errors in my below docs let me know so I can update it.

[FONT=&quot]You are here: EPA Home Compliance & Enforcement Report an Environmental Violation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Information Submitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Report an Environmental Violation - Information[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]submitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you for submitting information on a possible environmental violation. The[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]information will be reviewed by EPA enforcement personnel. This notice will be the only[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]response you will receive regarding your submission. Due to the sensitive manner in[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]which enforcement information must be managed by EPA, we can not provide status[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]reports or updates regarding any submission we receive through the Report an[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Environmental Violation form.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]VW Of America implemented Emissions Recall Campaign 28E6 in summer of
2009. This campaign replaced 7V Ceramic Glow Plugs with 5V Steel Glow Plugs.
This campaign was done to stop engine failures as the ceramic glow plugs would
fail, fall into engine, and bend valves / break pistons. During Dec 09 to April
2010, nearly all vehicles that were modifed by VW would fail to start or they
would start and belch massive quantities of black diesel fume / smoke for up to
two minutes (You tube had videos of these cars). I contacted VW of American in
Jan 2010 and local dealers, they stated they had no solution to the glow plug /
starting problem. Note that the Ceramic 7V plugs would deliver about 125 Watts
of heat per cylinder versus the 25 Watts for the 5 V Steel Glow Plus. Around Nov
2010, VW America rolled out another Emissions Upgrade that was to correct the
first one, that new Emissions Upgrade is 28F6, and deploys a 7V Shield Glow
Plug from NGK Corporation. That plug works as original intended. Here's the
problem. VW of America never sent out the 28F6 emissions recall to "ALL" the
owners of the 2004 to 2006 VW Turbo Diesel Cars. During 2011 and 2012, I
would contact the local dealer and was advised, there is no recall campaign for
my emissions controls and there is no solution. Therefore I continued to belch
Black smoke during winter for each cold morning start. However, in Jan 2013, I
contact the dealer again, and asked, was told, there is still no recall for your
vehicle, sorry. I then went onto the various VW TDI forums on the Web, and
found the 28F6 Recall. Forum members are reporting that some people got the
recall and some didn't. I contacted VW of America, they confirmed that they have
emissions recall 28F6 but admitted that they did not send it to all effected cars.
They claim that they will help solve this problem. Yet I have been calling them (7
times now) in past 3 weeks and they continue to stonewall me, by telling me
that the decision maker will get back to me. I've taken my car into the local
dealer, they verified that there is an Emissions Warranty 28F6, we have
confirmed that my vin number matches those cars effected, I have left my
vehicle over night with them to verify it has the hard starting smoke belching
problem, yet they refuse to fix it stating that VW of America has not assigned the
28F6 Emission warranty campaign to my VIN number. The Service manager
pulled up my VIN number and that campaign is not assigned to my car by VW of
A. I would imagine that there are lots of these cars that have the same problem
from VW. Further, I have found references that 4 other car brands used the
original 7V Bosch Glow Plug and those were replaced by the 5 V Bosch glow plug
and those cars have the same problem. The remedy is you have to install the 7V
NGK glow plug, a new Glow Plug Controller, and reflash the ECU program to fix
these cars. I'm somewhat shocked that I have been calling VW for 3 years and
getting a run around. This is a common issue brought up on the forums. People
are resorting to altering these cars to get them to start, including using older
11V glow plugs and modifing the ECU programming codes. I'd say it is time to
bring in the support teams from the EPA and the NHTSB. I can scan in and send
you the summary information that I provided to the local VW dealer. it is still not
clear to me if VW of America is going to fix this car or not.
[/FONT]

 

[gmcleod752]

I want to thank everyone for posting information about the 04 Jetta BEW glow plug problem. In Dec 2009, we too experienced the agony of the no start scenario. One month of working with two dealers and VW of A, no solutions were found. I was able to get the 04 TDI BEW started by adding a frost heater and removing the trailer splices added to my glow plug wire harness which added 8 to 20 ohms of resistance to each wire, rendering no power left for the glow plugs. I was finally able to get about 25 watts to each plug versus the 125 watts from the original system.

I have been calling our local VW dealer for 3 years now, each time, they would pull up the VIN number and advise me there is no campaign. For the time periods from Dec to April from Dec 2009 to April 2012 we could barely get the TDI running. We live at 6600 feet and it is routinely at 0 to 20 deg during winter.

For Dec 2012 to Jan 2013, we have not been able to start the car even with the frost heater on days where it has fallen below Zero. Unusually cold winter this year.

I've been on the phone with local dealer and VW of A. They have acknowledge that 28F6 exists, that my vin number falls within the range of approved VIN Numbers, but yet VW of A refuses to assign 28F6 to my Vin Number so that the dealer has a billing code. Local dealer won't fix it under 28F6 without VW of A approval. I'm pretty much had it with VW of A. Today, I called again and told them, call me back, get on with this job, this will be my last phone call, at end of day I file a complaint.

Note >> I ordered the parts listed on the Forum and will install them myself. I'll check that glow plug timing code and if necessary use a VAG com to adjust the duration of the primary glow plug timing. My gut feel is that the 2009 28E6 campaign work effort by the first dealer did not upgrade the program, as it is not listed on the repair order.

Gave up >> Sent in a complaint to the EPA today. Here's the text of the complaint

If any forum members has anything to add, post it, if EPA contacts me, I'll provide them with the latest information. If there are any errors in my below docs let me know so I can update it.

[FONT=&quot]You are here: EPA Home Compliance & Enforcement Report an Environmental Violation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Information Submitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Report an Environmental Violation - Information[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]submitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you for submitting information on a possible environmental violation. The[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]information will be reviewed by EPA enforcement personnel. This notice will be the only[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]response you will receive regarding your submission. Due to the sensitive manner in[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]which enforcement information must be managed by EPA, we can not provide status[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]reports or updates regarding any submission we receive through the Report an[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Environmental Violation form.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]VW Of America implemented Emissions Recall Campaign 28E6 in summer of
2009. This campaign replaced 7V Ceramic Glow Plugs with 5V Steel Glow Plugs.
This campaign was done to stop engine failures as the ceramic glow plugs would
fail, fall into engine, and bend valves / break pistons. During Dec 09 to April
2010, nearly all vehicles that were modifed by VW would fail to start or they
would start and belch massive quantities of black diesel fume / smoke for up to
two minutes (You tube had videos of these cars). I contacted VW of American in
Jan 2010 and local dealers, they stated they had no solution to the glow plug /
starting problem. Note that the Ceramic 7V plugs would deliver about 125 Watts
of heat per cylinder versus the 25 Watts for the 5 V Steel Glow Plus. Around Nov
2010, VW America rolled out another Emissions Upgrade that was to correct the
first one, that new Emissions Upgrade is 28F6, and deploys a 7V Shield Glow
Plug from NGK Corporation. That plug works as original intended. Here's the
problem. VW of America never sent out the 28F6 emissions recall to "ALL" the
owners of the 2004 to 2006 VW Turbo Diesel Cars. During 2011 and 2012, I
would contact the local dealer and was advised, there is no recall campaign for
my emissions controls and there is no solution. Therefore I continued to belch
Black smoke during winter for each cold morning start. However, in Jan 2013, I
contact the dealer again, and asked, was told, there is still no recall for your
vehicle, sorry. I then went onto the various VW TDI forums on the Web, and
found the 28F6 Recall. Forum members are reporting that some people got the
recall and some didn't. I contacted VW of America, they confirmed that they have
emissions recall 28F6 but admitted that they did not send it to all effected cars.
They claim that they will help solve this problem. Yet I have been calling them (7
times now) in past 3 weeks and they continue to stonewall me, by telling me
that the decision maker will get back to me. I've taken my car into the local
dealer, they verified that there is an Emissions Warranty 28F6, we have
confirmed that my vin number matches those cars effected, I have left my
vehicle over night with them to verify it has the hard starting smoke belching
problem, yet they refuse to fix it stating that VW of America has not assigned the
28F6 Emission warranty campaign to my VIN number. The Service manager
pulled up my VIN number and that campaign is not assigned to my car by VW of
A. I would imagine that there are lots of these cars that have the same problem
from VW. Further, I have found references that 4 other car brands used the
original 7V Bosch Glow Plug and those were replaced by the 5 V Bosch glow plug
and those cars have the same problem. The remedy is you have to install the 7V
NGK glow plug, a new Glow Plug Controller, and reflash the ECU program to fix
these cars. I'm somewhat shocked that I have been calling VW for 3 years and
getting a run around. This is a common issue brought up on the forums. People
are resorting to altering these cars to get them to start, including using older
11V glow plugs and modifing the ECU programming codes. I'd say it is time to
bring in the support teams from the EPA and the NHTSB. I can scan in and send
you the summary information that I provided to the local VW dealer. it is still not
clear to me if VW of America is going to fix this car or not.
[/FONT]

 

[db252]

I started this posting and I can't believe that there are still issues going on. Hopefully everyone gets there issue fixed that has seen no resolve. It makes no sense to me based on all this info.......if you have the ceramic plugs, you shouldn't; Vw should acknowledge this regardless of VIN number.

I have not seen this post for a long time as I have literally forgotten about it mainly for the reason of not experiencing the problem since it was fixed long ago.

 

[trailhead]

This morning I dropped my 05 jetta wagon at Don Valley VW here in Toronto Canada. I just bought this car last week and my VCDS pulled up 6 codes (3 were glow plugs).
The dealer installed 4- N-105-916-09 glow plugs, 1- 038-907-281-D Contr unit and performed an ECM software update. They also did a 29 point inspection and ran it through the carwash!

It was great to see all those "0"s on the invoice. Frankly, I was shocked; I didn't think their printers were capable of printing "0"s

She's running like a top now!

I'd just like to thank you all for this thread. I never would have imagined this recall. You all have saved me a ton of money!

Thank you, thank you, thank you

TC