Need advice on cylinder wall marks

[300D]

So, I am starting a new thread, instead of continuing in the metal chunks thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=503708 as the questions aren't about the metal chunks anymore.

Background: I have dived in to swapping my cylinder head.

Current setup is driving a bit warm, using coolant, suspected a blown head gasket. Tested positive for exhaust gasses in the coolant. Also a bunged #4 glow plug. Long story on that one, but head not repairable.

Picked up a spare engine last spring with only 110,000 miles.

Plan was to swap the spare engine’s head into the car with no head refresh. Pulled spare engine’s head and it looks great. Spare engine also looks great.

Started pulling head from the engine in the car. Drained oil and found pretty good sized metal chunks on the magnetic drain plug. Then pulled oil pan to make sure everything on the underside looked good. All good except for an additional piece of metal in the pickup screen that looks like a piston wrist pin. A 3/4” diameter round spring wire.

Then went up top and pulled off the head. Found some interesting things that I need feedback on:

First, when pulling off the head. Two head bolts between cylinders three and four were loose. Which might explain a bunch of my on going issues. No idea why I didn't check this.

Three and Four cylinders were very oily and a tiny bit of coolant evident. Here is a picture immediately upon removal:

Spent a little bit of time getting started on cleaning the block:

All the cylinders looked fine except for cylinder number 4:

How bad are these marks/scoring? Why are there marks horizontally? I can feel the horizontal marks, but not the vertical ones.

Should I continue with my plan? Just put the head on and go for it. No compression test was done as there is no glow plug hole in cylinder #4. Or should I rethink? Is there a way to hone in place? How involved is it to pull the pistons and put new rings on? Pan is not sealed back on yet, so that part is easy. I do have a spare engine, but really wasn’t planning an engine swap in late November in Maine in my driveway.

Thanks for feedback.

 

[KLXD]

Weird. Is the marking around the full circumference?

Maybe the piston was sitting at that position and water got in?

I'd use the other block. Too much unexplained stuff going on with this one.

 

[Vince Waldon]

Same advice as in your other thread: if you can feel something with a fingernail the cylinder needs to be honed, at a minimum. Depending on how deep the groove actually is it may not hone out. Otherwise you'll be fighting low compression, poor winter starting, oil consumption, etc etc.

Fairly easy to do in place... with the oil pan off you can remove the rod caps and push the pistons out the top from the bottom. Lots of careful flushing required afterwards to keep honing grit from being left behind somewhere on the crank.

New bearings and rings are generally a good idea... from the looks of those scratches you may have a broken ring anyways. Initial seating of the rings is very important after honing... lots of threads here on how that's done.

 

[Powder Hound]

How about just using the complete spare engine you obtained? Sure, by now you'll need a new head and various other gaskets, as well as a set of head bolts, but since you already have it, why not?

I'd be worried about the old head bolts being loose as well as the cylinder scoring. Since you have a good block right there...

Cheers,

PH

 

[Nero Morg]

Same advice as in your other thread: if you can feel something with a fingernail the cylinder needs to be honed, at a minimum.

This. Block doesn't meet reuse. Probably can be repaired though. Probably caused by piston ring placement.

 

[tgray]

When things look this way you need to pull the pistons. Could be bad rings and pistons as well. I have seen a lot of water damage after sitting a while and it looks like that after they ran it a while later on. There are micro pits in the wall is why you can't feel it with your finger. Overheating will score the walls. A good hone job may clean it up but the pistons could be messed up. The block and head need to be checked for flatness. If you found loose bolts it probably got hot and loosened them up. If it was me I would look for another drop in engine or one with a better core for a rebuild. Maybe someone on the forum has one close to you. I have a cheap good spare engine but the shipping is probably too much.

 

[tgray]

I forgot you already have a spare engine. That would be the best option to swapping that into the car.

 

[WildChild80]

And don't forget the spring clip you found...sounds like bad things are coming if you don't swap blocks.

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[300D]

Ok then. Thanks for everyone's replies. Very much appreciated. Consensus seems to be swap out the block. Oh boy. I guess I need to shift gears. Googling "ALH engine removal".

I thinking I am going to go the out the front method. Going to have to swap out flywheel and clutch and timing parts as they all only have 30,000 on them.

A few questions:
All new bolts for timing stuff and flywheel and clutch, correct?
I think my cylinder head is not quite at TDC. I used a crappy lock plate when taking it off. Is there a way to put the cylinder head to TDC when it is off the engine? I have a metalman lock plate now.
Replacement engine has 110,000 miles, but has been sitting quite a long time. Should I do the front and rear main seals?
What else should I replace/order with engine out?

 

[300D]

How about just using the complete spare engine you obtained? Sure, by now you'll need a new head and various other gaskets, as well as a set of head bolts, but since you already have it, why not?

I'd be worried about the old head bolts being loose as well as the cylinder scoring. Since you have a good block right there...

Cheers,

PH

Good block AND head right there. Just now have to put them back together again...

And I have the same windy outdoor conditions as you. Not the funnest of working conditions.

 

[WildChild80]

Replace any seal you can get to

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[flee]

Good block AND head right there. Just now have to put them back together again...
And I have the same windy outdoor conditions as you. Not the funnest of working conditions.

It would be ideal to find a willing friend who has a garage. I also R&R'd my TDI engine.
I was able to pull the old engine block with a HF hoist out of the top without even
removing the hood. Just be sure to put the new block in the car and then the head.
Otherwise it is a lot taller than the hoist can lift. I think this saved me some time.
If the ports are badly coked up it is a fine time to refresh the head, guides and seats.
The coolant pipes' seals should be renewed now while it's easy to reach everything.
I have a Bentley's and I referred to it constantly during this engine swap.

 

[300D]

Front bumper and lock carrier are off. It’s gonna come out the front! Will update later with pics. Wind is NOT helping. Every house in Maine has a barn. Except for mine. It’s on the boards, but still a year or two away...

 

[WildChild80]

Front bumper and lock carrier are off. It’s gonna come out the front! Will update later with pics. Wind is NOT helping. Every house in Maine has a barn. Except for mine. It’s on the boards, but still a year or two away...

Thats hard core...it's below freezing up there...man I don't miss those winter's...18 inches over night and it's not that big of a deal...a few inches in Virginia and all of a sudden the world is ending.

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[300D]

Thats hard core...it's below freezing up there...man I don't miss those winter's...18 inches over night and it's not that big of a deal...a few inches in Virginia and all of a sudden the world is ending.

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Weather is definitely going to be my biggest challenge. Might have to setup a tent something or other. And all the plastic connectors and clips in the cold is a serious pain in the arse.

Although I am on the coast so not quite as cold as inland, but being that it’s a little warmer just means snow then rain instead of snow staying snow.

Maybe I will be able to sled the replacement engine down from the shed. That would be fun times.

 

[STDOUBT]

300D,
Hardcore is right. Get one of these, a boombox and a crockpot full of hot toddy, and you're living the dream. Instant man cave
18 x 30 Super Max Canopy Enclosure Kit

 

[300D]

 

[300D]

300D,
Hardcore is right. Get one of these, a boombox and a crockpot full of hot toddy, and you're living the dream. Instant man cave
18 x 30 Super Max Canopy Enclosure Kit

Actually considering something like that. Unfortunately that link is just for the wrap around. I built a bow roof shed greenhouse this past spring. Should have built a bow roof shed garage...

 

[300D]

Oh and the spare engine has an 11mm IP. Should I just throw it in condition unknown? I am thinking of sticking with the 10mm that is currently on the car as it is a known commodity. I want to limit my chances for even more headaches. Is this a sensible approach? Or maybe the lower mileage 11mm would be more sensible?

 

[Rrusse11]

300d,
Go with the 11mm pump, you won't regret it.

 

[Nero Morg]

Dear lord, stay warm out there.

 

[300D]

 

[wonneber]

300D,
No terracotta tile?

 

[Mongler98]

seeing as you have another engine, that is already half broken down, i would do a quick blueprint on it and replace all the seals on it and swap it over and be done with it. I would tear down the other engine just to see how things like the oil pump, rings, crank and what not look,

 

[300D]

300D,
No terracotta tile?

Ooh. Good idea. Stick an electric heater in there and get some good heat retention with the tile.

Havent had any time to work on it.

Parts came from IDParts right quick as usual. Gonna be some shed time getting it all prettied up.

And... now it’s snowing. Fun.

 

[WildChild80]

Ooh. Good idea. Stick an electric heater in there and get some good heat retention with the tile.



Havent had any time to work on it.



Parts came from IDParts right quick as usual. Gonna be some shed time getting it all prettied up.



And... now it’s snowing. Fun.

Good thing you got that tarp on it

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[Tdijarhead]

I’d rather work outside....during the summer. I don’t envy you at all working under that tarp. I just did the clutch on my daughters 01 Beetle over thanksgiving, I am so thankful for a heated garage, and the temps here are not what you’re experiencing.

I’ve read both your threads and I think you’re going about it right. Good luck.

 

[gforce1108]

I would definitely pull the pistons. The upper cylinder walls that this piston came out of looks just like yours, or better. I almost reassembled, but noticed that I could rock one piston a bit more than the others. Below the ring groove was a mess! I had to grind melted aluminum off of the cylinder walls before honing... 4 new pistons and a frankO6 head and it was good to go.

 

[300D]

Slow going. But mainly because my significant other just had back surgery for a herniated disk. Caregiving, and income producing regular work doesn’t leave much time for car work. Engine almost out though. Everything but the drive axles.

I am forgetting, do I need to do anything at the wheel ends, or just unbolt and pop them off the flanges enough to pull the engine down and forward? I would rather not have to deal with the wheel end.

 

[Nero Morg]

Wheel end can stay together. It'll make it easier if yoh undo the 3 bolts holding the ball joint to the control arm, then swinging the wheel away from the chassis, it'll pull the axle away from the transmission for better access.