NB: Replace brake switch = brake booster failure

eauboy

Active member
Joined
Oct 29, 1999
Location
Bethesda, MD
I have a 2000 NB with 50,000 miles that had no problems. I received a recall letter in the mail from VWoA for a brake light switch replacement. Once the time was convenient for me, I decided to take the car in and have them do the service.

Well...

On the way home from the service, I noticed that the brakes seemed kind of "touchy". For instance, usually you have a bit of play in the brake pedal before the brakes actually engage. In this case, they would grab immediately upon tapping the pedal. I thought it was in my head and kept driving. About a mile later I noticed that when taking my foot off the accelerator, the car would quickly come to a stop on it's own. By the time I was a mile from home, the car was laboring so hard that it wouldn't even shift out of second gear.

The very next morning, things seemed to be just fine. I drove 2 miles to work. By the time I get there, I can tell that the brakes are grabbing. I put the car in neutral while going 2 or 3 mph and let it coast to a stop. You can no doubt feel the car locking in to a full stop instead of coasting. I took it back to the dealer that afternoon. They look all surprised and a mechanic comes out and pulls the brake pedal out a couple of clicks and said the previous guy didn't fully reset it. Whatever, it seems to sort of do the job.

The next morning it's back to it's old tricks, so I take it back to the dealer and explain what happened. They call back and say the rear pads and rotors need to be replaced because they are all worn. (No kidding, given what happened as soon as I left their garage.) $500 later I take the car back home. I'm wondering why I paid for the warranty if I have to shell out my own cash for this.

Well I get home and guess what? Problem not resolved. I'm thinking to myself why did I drop all this cash and they didn't fix the problem. I bring the car back for them to look at. They call back and say we found that the brake booster had excess pressure, but they released it and now everything is fine. I pick up the car, drive a couple of miles and yes, I CAN FEEL THE BRAKES STILL GRABBING!!!

This morning I bring it back YET AGAIN and by the time I get to the dealer, they are locking up real fine. On the one hand I'm really glad to get to show him how serious this problem is, and on the other I'm thinking about $500 going up in smoke. The service guy sees me as I pull in and I motion for him to come out. The brakes are seized so bad that the car would move in "D" at idle. Now they going to replace the brake booster.

Having searched the forum and finding others with the same experience (e.g. this thread) I thought I would serve up my story as well.

Now, how do I go about getting my $500 back?!
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
You are the 4th Person that I know about who has had this happened.

I'm one and my 2000 has 59K on it. It did this several thousand miles ago.

Did a search here, found another member with the same problem, consulted THE GLEN (MOGOLF) and decided to try the booster.

Changed it with help from Strretch. $200, some brake fluid and a few hours and it was taken care of.

L
 

nongmo

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
TDI
Jetta, 2000, black
I smell a rat.

I too just had my recalled brake light switch replaced on my 2000 Jetta TDI at 60,350 miles. Driving home, I felt the brakes dragging and tried tapping on the brake pedal. There was a whooshing sound like air brakes releasing, the pedal sunk down rapidly, and the brakes grabbed hard. This happened a few more times, then I found I could prevent the dragging and grabbing if I lifted up on the brake pedal after each time I had to use the brakes. Today I took the car to a dealership and was told I need a new brake booster, my right rear caliper is sticking, my right emergency brake cable is sticking, and my rear brake pads are worn to 4mm and should be replaced. (Total estimate for parts & labor $1,080!)

Sounds like they may have found a way to make back their losses on the MAF... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

By the way, I did have a dragging brake problem prior to the brake light switch replacement, but the whooshing and grabbing are new and began immediately after the switch was replaced.
 

david_594

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
I am having the same problems as all of you, except not as bad /images/graemlins/confused.gif My brakes will only drag occasionally. I bought the car with 57K miles on it, and the brake switch recall had been done by the dealer. I had the car for 2 weeks and noticed the problem a couple times and decided to bring the car in. Dealer said rear brake pads were gone and it would cost me $200. I said Helllllll No, and that i had just bought the car as CPO 2 weeks prior and that someone better be picking up the tab. Dealer couldn't find any cause of the problem them. I found that pulling on the brake pedal can help it.

I did some searching on here and got a bit of info, but got some advice from Robnitro to grease the big metal rod that attaches the brake pedal. I am not sure if it worked or not because i always find myself pulling up on the brake pedal with my left foot. Im kinda paranoid now, but im hoping it will be ok.

just my 2 cents
 

MaxThrust

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Location
Twosun, AZ
TDI
99.5 Jetta
How about one of the more knowledgeable chiming in here? I have read numerous threads on the same exact issue. What are they doing when replacing the brake switch that is causing this problem? How about one of you techs sound off on this issue? I would say one or two is a coincidence, but there seems to be 8 or 10, or even more, this is not coincidence.

Just my $0.02 worth.

YMMV

Mike /images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
As far as you $500 is concerned, you're probably SOL. As most of us have found out, wear & tear items are rarely covered by the warranty. And VW has no real sense of logic in determining what's wear & tear and what's drivetrain, etc.

Dragging rear brakes and rusty/frozen parking brake cables are nothing new for VW. I recently discovered that my rear driver's side caliper was freezing up while the passenger side was fine. This time the cables were fine. But on my older VW's the cables were always a problem. My friend even has an unrestored '62 Beetle that needs new cables--for the third or fourth time he's estimated.

While not impossible, I think it's highly unlikely that the brake light switch itself is causing the problem with the booster. The booster is just a big vacuum diaphragm. I must admit I've never looked that closely at it on my Golf, but I've never noticed any wires going to it. Luckily I had no problem when they changed my switch, I won't get into the fact that they misdiagnosed an ABS recall problem. I would suspect that the tech's are installing the switch incorrectly or are disconnecting something and not plugging it back in.
 

hedriceh

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Location
Rochester, New York
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
I am having the exact same problem. Took my 2002 Jetta TDI (88K miles) to the dealer for the stupid brake switch recall notice and everything described above started happening to me:
- brakes dragging
- after letting off the brake, I can always pull the brake pedal 1/4 inch
I took the car back to the dealer and he told me that the rear brakes were sticking and charged me $120 to fix. I was alright with that if it fixed the problem.....but it didn't. Other symptoms:
- at random times the brakes really grab to the slightest of braking touches.
- cruise control now doesn't shut off until depressing the brakes much futher.

Still working with the dealer to get resolved. I wish I'd never have taken it in for the recall notice.
 

hedriceh

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Location
Rochester, New York
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
The problem seems to be the 'pre-load' adjustment of the replacement brake light switch. I worked with the mechanic at the dealer and explained to him that I had the following syptoms:
1.) Occasional brake grabbing (when you barely touch the brakes, the brakes grab to slow the car down faster than the applied force would cause).
2.) Cruise control used to shut off with the slightest 'tap' of the brake whereas now after the brake light switch replacement doesn't turn off until you push the brakes down about half an inch.
3.) Gas mileage has dropped to 41 MPG when previously I always get 47 MPG on every tank for my weekly driving routine.
4.) If you are parked in the car with the engine running, you can pump the brakes and there is enough pressure to overcome the switch preload (or sticking problem - which is what the dealer does) but under normal driving conditions you're driving and when you apply the brakes lightly there isn't enough pressure to push the pedal all the way back up.
5.) Since they replaced the brake light switch, I can normally reach down, after I used the brakes to slow the car down (i.e. while driving 60MPH and you need to apply a little brake to slow down for a turning car) and pull the brake pedal up about 1/2" and then everything is good.

Conclusion Summary - Anybody that has this problem, just needs to adjust the brake light switch. Having said this, the mechanic said that you have to adjust the preload on the brake light switch. Hope this helps. My problem is fixed.
 

AVE_ENG

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2003
Location
Guelph, ON
TDI
2000 Jetta Atlantic Blue
I just replaced and serviced my brakes, and everything is running as it should. Then I get this recall notice, and read stuff like this and the last thing I want to do is let the dealer go and mess things up. I think I'll give them some time to come to the realization that their technicians are crap at fixing this issue.
 

fatmimi99

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
02 NB Platinum Grey
exact same thing happened to me. Went in for the recall of the brake light switch. I noticed when I left the lot that the brakes were real touchy. But I had drove a rental car that day so I just thought that the difference between the two cars was what I was feeling. By the third day I knew something was wrong, they ended up diagnosing it as a bad brake booster and replaced it under warranty. Everything seems to be fine now, but I'll always wonder that it wasn't the booster, but the stoo-pid mechanics and the brake light switch thing. By the way, my NB only had about 13k on it at the time. Now I'm hoping that the brake booster they put in wasn't one of the "bad batch!"
 

fatmimi99

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
02 NB Platinum Grey
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your question. Ask for, or rather, demand your money back. I've always found that you never know unless you ask. I know here in Calif. you don't pay for repairs that didn't fix the problem. If it was me and they wouldn't return my money or at least some of it (you did get new brakes after all-maybe settle on getting the labor portion of it back) I would go through our state Bureau of Automotive Repair and file a complaint and have them investigate and mediate. Maybe you have a bureau like that in your state. good luck.
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
I had the issue occasionally. I lubed up that cylinder that feeds into the booster from the inside of the car with some grease, and its been ok since! Lube it up and try it out! I will be having the brake switch recall done on Tuesday, hopefully they don's f^&k it up!

Perhaps the switch is pushing too hard so the natural pedal return isn't pushing back all the way.

I still don't understand how a booster could cause this problem. The booster just makes pushing the pedal easier, and peraps the "fixed" boosters are just less sensitive in the first inch of travel?
 

SIAI

Active member
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Location
Deland, Florida, USA
TDI
Jetta,2015,Silk Blue
I hope the new switch is allowing the pedal to return all the way to it's mechcanical stop. If it is not, this might be the cause of the problems. Master cylinders have a small compensating port that bleeds line pressure out of the brakes when the pedal is fully released. If the pedal is not all of the way returned to it's stop, the port is covered (closed). Any buildup in pressure in the system will cause the brakes to start to apply, increasing heat, increasing pressure, applying the brakes more, and on and on until lock-up or brake failure. The fact that the problem didn't exist until the switch was installed (which should be initally set by pulling the pedal all the way back to it's stop by hand)seems to point to this type of problem. If you feel that your brakes are dragging, try pulling back on the pedal. If this fixes it, then the above is your problem /images/graemlins/eek.gif
 

FATCAT

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Location
Northwood NH
Man!! you guys got me terified now! I have the "bad" brake light switch thing now, with the brake lights staying on all the time unless I tap up on the brake. Just this morning my "Glowplug" light began blinking for about 8 seconds, then went out. Now I have to put a piece of wood under the brake peddle to keep the brake lights coming on when I park the car for an extended period of time.

I go in on Thursday to have this Brake light switch fixed, but now I am scared they will screw it up and my brakes will get all F'ed up. My brakes work fine now and there is no problem with the Master Cylender or Brake Booster.

I will make sure they (the dealership) know everything with the brakes work fine except for the switch and that if there is any problems afterwords IT IS THEIR DAMM FAULT.
Any other advice for me when I bring the car, to protect myself form scam artist service depts. or inept machanics?
 

hedriceh

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Location
Rochester, New York
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
I've had the problem and am still working to get it resolved. I took the car in for the recall and when I got it back the brakes were dragging and grabbing. I noticed that you are able to pull up on the brake pedal and the problem goes away. Bottom line - the brake light switch is the cause of the problem. The dealer will deny it and say one of many things like: 1.) Your rear brake calipers are rusted which is causing them to grab. 2.) Your master cylinder has gone bad., etc.

Root Cause Analysis - the only thing that changed is the stupid brake light switch which is causing my brake pedal to remain about 1/8" depressed (which you can pull up to release). Please note that if you remove the brake light switch the problem goes away (Be careful, when removed you obviously have no brake lights). I decided to take it out and see what the deal is. When you turn the brake light switch counter-clockwise
on pull it out. When you pull it out, you can pull out the plunger (it has some kind of adjusting mechanism). When you put it in, following procedure below, it locks the plunger in place. I ended up breaking the brake light switch somehow (brake lights stayed on all the time). Replacement switch costs $10. I'd like somebody to ask for the old one back (I forgot to because I didn't think it was a big deal, but from now on, I'll ask for all of my old parts back so I can compare the parts if need be). The one thing I noticed on mine was that the replacement switch was adjusted all the way in and I was still having the problem which made me wonder if this new switch is a little bit 'longer' in its shortest position which is causing the problem. I would be willing to pay somebody for their old one to compare to the new replacement switches. Or would love to see digital photos.



From the Bentley CD THE Break Pedal Needs to Be HELD in the up position while installing the new style switch. You can take the switch back out (turn counterclock) and pull out the plunger and reinstall IF you think that is the problem. These switches break very easy while installing them IF you try to force the switch while turning on install. the Tab will break making the switch useless.
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
At Koeppel VW the service writer tried to BS me with a shtick about the brake booster going bad. I said why do they go bad, did VW get bad parts? He says no, water gets in them (HAHAHA) on the diesels (yeah, try to scam us mofo). So then, I said, how does it get water? He said through the vaccuum hose. I said ok, well I lubed up the cylinder and it didnt happen after that, plus the brake switch is causing a force on the pedal so give me my recall. He shut up and said ok, we will try the recall for you.

The new switch feels much easier to push in, and is properly set.

Can you post the full bentley instructions for the switch installation/removal?
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Just bumping this up to help someone find it easily. He had a new switch put in by the dealer today and while on the highway, his left front wheel caught fire! Here are some pics:

Melted brake pad


Discolored rotor:


At the very least, he will need a new rotor, pads and caliper since the rubber seals inside were probably damaged from the heat. Maybe a bearing if the heat got that far. But at least the CV boot looks like it is in good shape.

Scary to think that a $10 part improperly installed can do so much damage. He is lucky the car did not catch fire!
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Scary to think that a $10 part improperly installed can do so much damage. He is lucky the car did not catch fire!
Obviously, they're not being installed properly. That's why I never took my car in for the recall. I'll change it myself.

But, my booster did go bad independent of the switch.
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
>>He had a new switch put in by the dealer<<

You mean to tell us that licensed, authorized, factory-trained VW dealers can screw up things other than the engine??

I'm shocked !!


Yuri.
 

cdach2000

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Location
Holmdel, New Jersey
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI 5M, Reflex Silver RIP 255K
I had the exact problem of the brakes dragging. When I
pulled up on the pedal with my foot, they released. The
dealer replaces the brakes booster and switch under
warranty. The car is a 2004 Jetta GL TDI and only had
1000 miles on it. Now the car seems fine. (knock on wood)
 
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