My tuned Ibiza(s) 2.0TDI FR ´13

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Hey guys,

I want to show you my Ibiza and also my results with it.
The way I tune might seem minimalistic or the parts I use for it seem to be too "tiny"
or not enough in the most peoples view.

Currently, running my car with a >GTD1756VRK< from >Muchboost< for the last couple of years now (about 3-4).
Car is running fine. Im able to get about 730kg/h of airmass into the engine. With a peakpressure of about
2.6-2.8b. The VE of the engine (volumetric efficiency) while doing so is about 0.85 (stock is 0.84 | EA288 stock is about 0.8).
Im running the car with an IC which has a net measure of 600x300x100. So its indeed a large one for sure.
But the colder, the better.

4Bar Map, 2700Bar sensor, 2.75" Exhaust, 2.5" Downpipe and upgrade injectors (from CUNA). Leading to about 305HP.
With the latest upgrade part for the HPFP, I was able to push it to about 325HP with a soft 0.5L/m WMI mix,
I was able to push it to 335HP with 715Nm of torque.

My car is doing the 100-200 in 11.06s. Considering my 0.7s shift time, this is a pretty good result (sorry its 4th gearbox).

But ever since 325HP are strong numbers for a CP4.1. At some point you reach the limit of the components.
So you have to move on with different parts. But the goal is always: to use the parts with the capabilities they are build for.
And the Stock CP4.1 is able to push out about 284-305HP (depending on age and wear, as well as cetan in diesel).
With a bigger plunger, you can get it to about 325HP. So an increase of about 10%.

My greek friend, was able to pull of a (corrected) time of 10.77s 100-200 with the complete stock CP4.1 pump.
No upgrade part or 2700Bar sensor. Just 2200Bar at this point.
The only advantage he has is, due to his >GTD2060<, he can run an 1L/m 50/50wmi mixture.
His car produced on raw diesel 284HP straight from 3000-4600rpm (bet you never saw such a powerrange) and 640Nm of torque on the dyno.


But Im not stopping here. Soon I will change the turbo to an >GTD2060< as well, >CP3 R90 from MAC< and a new >downpipe from TRW< with 2.75" diameter.
My Goal is to get to about 380HP on raw diesel and 400HP with water methanol.
Torquewise: I will leave it there (~700Nm), because this seems to be enough for the stock engine internals.
Its very likely, that I will need cams for that goal. But Like I mentioned before. Those will come, when I see the need for it.
But then with springs, bolts and compression reduction as well as porting.

I will see where the journey ends leads to. Im aware that the block can go rip, but since Im in germany,
I can get an used engine for cheap, so I dont see the need to reinforce it. If it dies, it dies. (I was expecting it at the 300HP mark).


I hope you enjoy the upcomming journey and then we will see, at which figures we will end up at.


Here you have some media included. Of course not everything. But a bit.








 
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JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen, 6M, red/tan, navi, pano, 83 5m diesel pickup, 82 p/u trailer,.04 5.5 TDI Passat wagon (gone), 80,81,82 diesel p/u (gone), 80,82 sportruck (gone), 59 passthru bus (long gone), 79&87 westy (gone), 57 baja bug (long gone), 73 914
The 4dr 4x4 Hilux in one of your videos would be such a unicorn here in the U.S.! What year is it? Me wants...
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
The 4dr 4x4 Hilux in one of your videos would be such a unicorn here in the U.S.! What year is it? Me wants...
Thanks for your kind words, but I think you mistake me with someone else. ..
At least, as for my current standards, im only into VAGs 2L / 3L engines.
Soo... I dont really know of which car you talk about. Im sorry 😅
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Today I finalized my CP3 R90 swap. Including the timing belt.
That were nasty 3 days, because we had always some rain, so I couldnt work and always had to stop for a few
minutes, before I was able to continue.
But everything on this kit fits nicely. As you would expect. The support from Mac is also very neat.
Always there for questions, if you have any. So big thanks to >him< for his kindness and help!

I decided to let the pump run with my "CP4 adjustment" and basically do nothing to the software, but adding a slight touch of torque.
As for my readings, the pump should be a straight fit.
I was expecting the pressure regulate valve to adapt over the next few miles, because the flow of the CP3 is so much more,
therefore the PCV has to open up way more than before.
After the engine was warm, I did the first slight pull where the requested rail pressure started to increase to 2400bars (thats what I wanna drive),
of course there was an overshoot and I saw the sensorlimit of 2700Bars. I lifted of immediately and decided to let things go on
slowly. (It would have triggered limp if I had been on the gas for a few more moments, but why tho?)
To give the ECU a bit more time to adapt from a running edge CP4.1 to a pretty chilled CP3.
After about 15km it seemed like the PCV adapted to the CP3 and everything is fine.
So I did the first pull it was nice, but with a lots of caution and ...directly after... nothing.
No power. After a few seconds the power came back... and I was like? TF is going on here.
I repeated it a bit and there were always moments, where the ECU cutted the fuel completely.
So I started to look around in my smartphone app for "faulty" sensors, that could cause momentum reduction.
As it turned out, the "basic" sensors (which I have always on screen), dont seem to be the issue Im looking for.

After a few more (thrilling) moments of what could it be, thoughts, I came up with the idea, that it might be
the fuel temp. Due to my CP4 programming the metering unit starts to open up pretty early and not far after completely.
Making the pump the best flow and stable rail pressure it could get. But if you have a pretty much oversized pump,
this might be a bad idea, because most of the pressurized fuel gets back to the return line.
And pressure means heat. So I took my laptop, started VCDS and looked after the fuel temp and what I saw,
was 90°C-95°C peak, which confirmed my guess. I did some testings and saw, that the fuel temp map will probably cut my power.

I came home, adjusted the metering unit to be more closed.
Even more than stock (best for efficiency and fuel temp,
would be slightly more than the pump needs). Flashed it and tried again. It worked and the fuel temp stayed
between 37-45°C. Which is a good and nice temp.

All in all the car works great now with the CP3. Of course I dont have any power benefits. Maybe slight. But not measurable for me at the moment.
Because the CP4.1 and the GTD1756VRK were a perfect fit together, basically running together happily on the edge.

In the next following days I will put in my GTD2060VZ. Im waiting for my new downpipe... seems like its stuck in shipping.
But after it will arrive, things will go further and I will see where we will end up at.

Some expressions:








 
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Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Yesterday I finally finished my build. At least from the mechanical side.
It took me 1.5 days to install the turbo.
You can do it in about 0.5 days if you are prepared, but I like to do things
spontaneous and so it took a bit longer. I mean, Im not in the need to finish
this project fast. So its fine for me. I dont like to do stuff with hustle.

Anyways, after a short break in period (I know everyone has a different opinion about,
and this in mine) of about 100km I tested the turbo with wide open VNT (5-10%) and low boost.
You can see the video of this config down blow.
Basically. This turbo works like a charm with the engine. Im really amazed how this
turbo is basically "a unit" with the engine. Like it belongs to this R4 CR.
Even with very little boost the, turbo already pushed 850kg/h thru my engine.
The boost for that is about 2.3-2.4. For those who take out the calculator:
Yes thats nearly 0.9VE. Which is absolutely insane for me. I didnt expect such numbers
with that turbo. Its literally a miracle for me.
Big thanks at this part to >MuchBoost< for providing such a good fitting and working turbo.
Im amazed how much space is left in the engine bay, considering there is a GTD2060VZ sleeping in there.
At least in my opinion there is much space left.
The Downpipe from >TRW-Performance< also fitted very well under the car. No collisions or anything.
All in all, im very happy how all the parts just fit together in this small engine bay.
Makes me happy.

Now the "real tuning" begins. Lets see where we will end up at.
I didnt expect to reach the Limit of the MAF Sensor that quickly. So I will put in a larger one soon
(I knew it will limit at 854kg/h, but I didnt think I will reach those numbers with low boost already).








 

altz1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Location
Estonia
TDI
A8 4H 4.2TDI, Cayenne 4.2TDI, 6.0TDI
Nice build. How much fuel mg/strokr are you running midrange/max power area?
 

altz1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Location
Estonia
TDI
A8 4H 4.2TDI, Cayenne 4.2TDI, 6.0TDI
130mg/str is pretty serious :) You can burn all this fuel with 2.4bar boost? What rpm you get and max boost ? (lower gears and higher gears)
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Im still in the tuning process, so I cant tell.

I didnt tune it also for the last week, because my clutch actuator is dead.
I will switch to DMF and new clutch on Monday. Before that, I wont be able to give you
other figures than above.
On the other hand, I have VE examples, as well as the kg/h airmass above.
So in theory you should be able to calculate the lambda ratio.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
The inlet of that airbox looks like it could be restrictive, no?
The MK7 Golf has what appears to be a much larger inlet and OE filter. The CUA airbox looks similarly positioned as what you have and uses that size MAF (different looking electrical connector though). CUA also uses the same OE filter as the MK7 Golf. Looks like it might easily fit should you find it's a restriction? I'm a fan of keeping things OE looking though ;)
 
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Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
The inlet of that airbox looks like it could be restrictive, no?
Yes. It is. Thats why there is an extra (big) hose on the bottom, sucking directly over the subframe.
It started to be restrictive in the 250HP area.
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
And the journey continues.
I finally assembled my clutch. Im running now a DMF from MK6 GTD, which holds all that torque just well.
And the Bi-TDI MAF is also fully functional.
I already pushed over 970kg/h into this engine. Things getting really serious now.
Soon, I will keep going with the tuning process.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Sweet build! Seems like the perfect balance between plenty of power and nice driving characteristics. Do you have an idea of how much power the R70 CP3 commonly used can support?
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Sweet build! Seems like the perfect balance between plenty of power and nice driving characteristics. Do you have an idea of how much power the R70 CP3 commonly used can support?
Depends on the injectors you can find.
The "weak" R70 only withstands about 2200Bar rail pressure.
Means, your injectors need to get in a good amount, in a good time with 2200 or less pressure.
If you have big enough injectors, you can max out the engine with the R70 (should do 400HP+).
If you stay with the biggest OEM VAG Injectors (GTD) you will hit the wall (lets say you can get
higher, but you will burn the piston and cylinder wall over time) at ~300HP.
At this point, I would rather drive a CP4.1 with upgrade piston, because you can drive at least about 320HP
with that combo (because CP4.1 can do ~2700B without breaking. Means 2400B for 320hp) and its
additionally a lot cheaper than the conversion. Doesnt also require any remapping or what so ever.
 

clannnabanna

Well-known member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Location
N.Ireland
TDI
Golf 1.9tdi (mark 5)
I have a 2012 Leon CR170 (CFJA, oval port) and have been told by AT LEAST 5 people (including darkside developments & Xman) that the most bhp you can get from the standard fuel pump (CP4.1) is 245bhp.
If you want more you have to use a CP3 pump & bigger injectors.
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
I have a 2012 Leon CR170 (CFJA, oval port) and have been told by AT LEAST 5 people (including darkside developments & Xman) that the most bhp you can get from the standard fuel pump (CP4.1) is 245bhp.
If you want more you have to use a CP3 pump & bigger injectors.
And what do you wanna tell me with that?
Mate. This thread is about my car(s) not others. I just dont care.
 

clannnabanna

Well-known member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Location
N.Ireland
TDI
Golf 1.9tdi (mark 5)
Ya whaa? R u saying darkside are wrong then & you have got more than 245bhp from the standard wee fuel pump.
Im speaking for alot of British people who have been told by the so called experts that 245bhp is the limit so dont start to be a wee keyboard warrior for no reason when im asking a valid question!
 
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Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
I cant even see one question mark.
So no answers, unfortunately.
I dont know why it is so hard, to go with your tuner then.
I just dont care for comparison or what so ever.
You can see my results and explanations above.
Take it or leave it. And even if you stick to: "245bhp is the max".
You know what? I say ok. I just dont feel like the urgency to
convince anyone. Why should I?
Its my cars, its my projects, its what I do.
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
After such a long time (okay 2 weeks, but thats long for me) I could finally resume the tuning process.
This time, the turbo starts to produce boost. No LowBoost setting.
Its doing about 2.7-2.8b and its relatively smokefree. Its more like of a grey smoke, rather than deep black.
So since if feels really nice and well, I gave it a shot and this was the outcome:


Im happy, but still so far away from the 400HP.
I mean, I have plenty of air left inside the engine, which can be burned and turned into Nm,
but.. I want to try to get to 370HP without smoking a lot, to have some air left for the water
methanol injection and use this to get to 400 ish.
I cant really tell from the current point of view, if its gonna happen with the current setup.
I feel like its going to fall short at about 380HP. But we will see.
Like I said. When it needs cams, it will get cams. But I dont want to change parts,
without even seeing an effect.
 

sauron18

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Location
Dominican Republic
TDI
Jetta TDI DSG
And the Stock CP4.1 is able to push out about 284-305HP (depending on age and wear, as well as cetan in diesel).
With a bigger plunger, you can get it to about 325HP. So an increase of about 10%.
How does that work? Everyone have told me (Whitbread, Malone, Darkside, Jeff Stevenson, people in the forums and in FB groups) the CP4 at stage 3 or normal stage 3 oem CR170 is at the limit in fuel pressure. My TDI is Malone Stage 3 custom Xman CR170 hybrid, 4 bar map and CP4. I can't even enjoy the car because when i step on with 70% of the power not even 100% it goes into limp mode and give me a P0087 low pressure in the fuel rail and i have been told to get a CP3. My TDI should be around 220-230hp. I wanted to enjoy my car as it's was thinking of getting a cp3 but maybe next year or never if it wasn't necessary but i have to spend that money or downgrade to stage 2. When it was stage 2 it ran fine 100%.
 
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Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
How does that work?
Like I said. It depends on Cetan in Diesel, as well as the AFR and the injection itself (efficiency).
The Cetan alone makes the difference between 284 and 305.
But if you have a bad injection system (like long duration, low pressure), you can drop even further.
There is a reason why high power TDIs (from stock) have high pressure and low durations (looking to
2L VAG Bi-TDI or BMWs M550D). It makes sense to look over to OEMs to extract the most of the
fuel, instead of pushing in more, with less efficiency. Of course at some point you need to back up,
because the engine was not meant to get to this point. So you have to find your way thru.

The other "problem" is, the ECU itself doesnt use the stock HPFP completely. I mean. It makes sense.
If you expect the engine to run at 140 or 170HP, you dont mess around with the HPFP regulation,
to max out the pump, if needed. Thats work that the tuner has to do. But also taking the time
and effort to develop and do it. It makes more sense, to straight swap to a CP3 conversion, if you
can sell it and already produce it.

If you dont believe me, that it is like that. You can just simple grab VCDS and check the positions
of your metering and fuel regulator valve while your rail pressure drops. You will notice, you have plenty of room left.
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
R70 cp3 modified should be able to do 350 with good enough injectors and fuel supply to cp3 inlet. Looking forward to seeing this maxed out with the new injectors :sneaky:
Im gonna start soon i hope a project of my own.. gonna be interesting for sure.
Electronic actuator ..no more vacuum stuff...
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Soooo.
Things have gotten a bit quieter the closer we got to december.
And I would say the project stands now still for couple of days / weeks / months.
My car is equipped with summer tyres and if I look thru my window. I can see some white cold stuff,
which doesnt really suite the shoes of my car.
But I can give you an update, how things are going so far.

I cancelled the "seeking for power process" at the 350HP mark, due to several reasons.
One being the exhaust side is too small and the other one because on raw diesel, I had to
completely redo the injection system. I dont wanna go too much into detail, but the changes
mostly address the pilot injection.
The other "issue" I wanted to rule out, was to get cleaner rail pressure.
I didnt had crazy horrible spikes, but I dont like seeing them, so I had to adjust a lot of regulator stuff.
To make it a smooth and clean line. Even smoother and cleaner than from stock now.

To overcome the "too tiny" exhaust side, I just spoke with my friends over at MuchBoost, if it would be possible
to produce a GTD2260VZ. In literally once sentence they agreed and now im on a 2260 for the last 600km or so?
Its kinda crazy how this GTD turbine works. Already 1b at 1800rpm and 2b at 2050rpm. Spooled completely
smokefree and efficient. Meaning not much exhaust gases to use. You could run full boost at 2200rpm if needed.
But I didnt see the reason to, just killing my lovely GTD DMF. EGTs are lower now and Im happy so far.

Because I want a bit more overview whats going on around my engine, I decided to implement an exhaust
manifold pressure sensor, which will be also connected to the ecu and easy readable linearized.
In this case, Im going to use the 6bar Sensor from BMWs N57 engine with tripple turbo setup.
Sensor is there, some testings are already done, now I just need to weld a bit of piping and it should be good to go.

Because my AEM Water Methanol V2 kit is becoming really old now. I decided to buy the new V3 version of it,
together with a solenoid to prevent leaking. This will be also installed at some point of the whole build.

Like I said. Dont expect much, since my car is covered under 5cm of snow now. I try to keep you updated,
as soon new things are going to happen.
As always: some contents down blow. But Im not a man of taking photos and videos. So I hope you can work
with.




 

scrambld

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Location
Belchertown, MA
TDI
'06 Jetta...TDI/5spd :) >>>now a '15 Passat TDI/DSG
At this point, I would rather drive a CP4.1 with upgrade piston, because you can drive at least about 320HP
with that combo (because CP4.1 can do ~2700B without breaking.
I'd be interested in knowing more about this topic. Cp4.1 upgrade parts/sources/details? TIA
 
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