My Passat needs another engine

cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
My 2004 Passat was showing elevated levels of iron in the blackstone oil reports as follows:
milage on engine iron ppm
95,500.............29
96,300.............19
101,000...........261 <- was really concerned, but it subsided somewhat
104,000..........74
106,000..........44
114,000...........80
120,000..........118
124,500..........135
128,500..........247 <-- really concerned again!
at this same time I had the car at the Ho5G gtg and Chris Hill said the engine sounded really LOUD, and I should have it looked at.
Well, I dropped the car off with Chris to have a look, and he found the cam was worn and needed replacing. I originally bought the car with 88000 miles and do not know what oil was used prior to that, but I installed the Greascar kit in it at that point, and started using Total Quartz Ineo 5w30 oil. I think I might post a thread in the oil forum inquiring about 5w30 oil experiences with cam in PD engine, since some people seem to think 5w40 is better for the cam. So, Chris saw a lot of soot coating the inside of the valve cover and figured the main issue was with cylinder 1. Upon trying to remove the ceramic glowplug, it broke, stuck tight to the glowplug bore. At that point I gave the okay to remove the head on the engine.
Once the head was removed, he discovered the walls of cylinder 1 was scored. Said I would likely start to burn alot of oil in another 5000 or 10000 miles. I didn't think it made sense to reassemble the engine without fixing that. No after-market over-size pistons are available, and no surplus bhw complete engines are available either. Anything except a used engine from another car seemed to be prohibitively expensive.
So the car still sits with Chris at Kraftwerks in Braintree, Mass. I am really torn between selling the car without a working engine (it's a fairly decent looking car, except for one inch cut in the rear bumper, and the car is tan), and putting a new engine in it. Chris advises me NOT to replace the engine unless I want to keep the car. With recent difficulties diagnosing severe drive-ability issues after the EGR valve stopped closing up when it is supposed to (and I told a local mechanic to look into that after finding a post by MOGolf about it, did not have time to drop off the car with Chris) and a string of surprises like balance shaft, glow plugs, the rarity of the engine, and the inconvenience of traveling long distances and leaving the car with a mechanic like Chris who can diagnose issues with rare engines like this, I wonder if it would make sense to sell the car and get a more common year/make/model vehicle.
The car is quite nice when there are no problems, but that EGR valve going on me was quite a pain to deal with. Add to that 3 MAF sensors that have gone bad in the last 30000 miles (at least one due to my error in not seating a new air filter properly), and I am really undecided as to whether to keep the car or sell it without a good engine.
Maybe I screwed up bad on one of my oil changes, somehow introducing a spec of dirt into the engine accidentally, causing cylinder 1 to get scored? How hard is it to do something like that? How else do cylinders get scored?
So I am trying to decide what to do. What is a fair price for a 'good' BHW engine (assuming I decide to keep the car)? What is a fair price for a clean Passat sedan (assuming I decide to not keep the car)?
 

spiceredwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Edmonton
TDI
06 wagon
So now that you tofed the engine with a grease car kit just how much money did it save you? Three maf's in 30k you must be running a K&N filter. Someone should come up with a good acronym for them like Karnage & Negligence. My BHW runs like a fine piece of German engineering at 355k so I am not very sympathetic to your grease experiments.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
I really don't see a "spec of dirt" getting past the oil filter and scoring a cylinder wall. It probably was a tip from a ceramic glow plug that did the damage.

A fair price for a clean Passat with no engine and over 100K on it is really not much, especially since it is at some garage in Mass.

In good condition, 2004-05 Passats with the BHW are going for $8 - 12K, and that would be without the balance shaft upgraded. While still a desirable car in good condition, they are getting "aged" now that the 2011 model year is here.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
once the very thin hardened layer of the cam is worn through, wear is pretty rapid. the induction hardening only goes so deep. If the cyl scoring is old, not recent, it has filled with carbon. has it overheated in the past?if so the piston may be wiped. you had not mentioned excessive oil consumption prior. a used head/cam replacement and you would at least have a running car to keep or sell. deinstall the greasecar crap and sell it.
 

cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
So now that you tofed the engine with a grease car kit just how much money did it save you? Three maf's in 30k you must be running a K&N filter. Someone should come up with a good acronym for them like Karnage & Negligence. My BHW runs like a fine piece of German engineering at 355k so I am not very sympathetic to your grease experiments.
Never had K&R filter in it. With 355k miles I am very impressed! I have no interest in defending the use of the greasecar system in my car, or even debating it. I just lay it out there, without further comments.

You wrote: "2005 Passat TDI Wagon (330k) The money pit." My feelings EXACTLY! I don't think that qualifies as fine engineering from germany or anywhere else!
 
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thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
salvage cars with running engines are 2500 and under.
 

kotflb

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Sooner or Later state
TDI
Passat 05 Black GLS
Just put another engine in it. I had read somewhere on this forum that you can buy a short block from the dealer for about 2600$, which has the new cam and the updated geared oil pump . Therefore you would have a basically new engine, new cam, and be chainless all at same time. To me, that's a much better option then trying to find a used engine with unknown history somewhere. JMHO

Go to the topic, "Question For TDI Gurus" and read HOs post #3
 
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cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
Just put another engine in it. I had read somewhere on this forum that you can buy a short block from the dealer for about 2600$, which has the new cam and the updated geared oil pump . Therefore you would have a basically new engine, new cam, and be chainless all at same time. To me, that's a much better option then trying to find a used engine with unknown history somewhere. JMHO

Go to the topic, "Question For TDI Gurus" and read HOs post #3
Chris says a new short block does not include a cam.
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Just put another engine in it. I had read somewhere on this forum that you can buy a short block from the dealer for about 2600$, which has the new cam and the updated geared oil pump . Therefore you would have a basically new engine, new cam, and be chainless all at same time. To me, that's a much better option then trying to find a used engine with unknown history somewhere. JMHO

Go to the topic, "Question For TDI Gurus" and read HOs post #3
Shortblock is just the bottom end of the engine. The cam is in the cylinder head! ;)
 

spiceredwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Edmonton
TDI
06 wagon
You wrote: "2005 Passat TDI Wagon (330k) The money pit."
It has been working very nicely for a year since I did the chainectomy and some unexpected stuff like engine mounts and camshaft. So I quickly forgot how over priced the parts seemed to be at the time.
 

cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
Regarding my cam going bad, I found this post from oilhammer right in this forum: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2791987&postcount=10

This would place strong suspicion on my use of the Total Quartz Ineo 5w30 oil of at least being an aggravating factor. I am switching to Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 which is sold at walmart in my other PD engine, the 05 jetta.

I am also going to email my friends at IDParts.com who sold me this apparently damaging oil for my PD engine, and direct them to that thread and oilhammer's post in particular.

Clarification: this prior paragraph was poorly written, and my intended meaning was not conveyed ... I did not mean to call them friends in a sarcastic sense, nor did I intend to set any blame on them - I acknowledge that they are selling the proper oil according to VW. I have an update from Corey at ID Parts.
 
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aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
I am at 50,000 miles since my balance shaft was changed and running M1 TDT the whole time. My UOA's are very nice and posted in the Fuels and Lubricants thread with all the others. Stick with 5W 40 for these engines.;)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Regarding my cam going bad, I found this post from oilhammer right in this forum: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2791987&postcount=10

This would place strong suspicion on my use of the Total Quartz Ineo 5w30 oil of at least being an aggravating factor. I am switching to Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 which is sold at walmart in my other PD engine, the 05 jetta.

I am also going to email my friends at IDParts.com who sold me this apparently damaging oil for my PD engine, and direct them to that thread and oilhammer's post in particular.
Um, yeah, before you go quoting me on oil use, perhaps you should also grab a few of the several hundred posts I have had against WVO use and include those in your complaint to IDparts, as well. :cool:
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Also, IDParts is selling an oil that complies with Volkswagen's specifications.

If you want to flame someone, flame Volkswagen for making the specification allow for oil that doesn't protect the engine.

Or, you know, flame yourself for running waste veggie oil, which changes everything when it comes to lubrication.
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
Check this thread for a member who has a totaled Passat TDI with a good engine. Maybe you guys can work out a deal where someone ends up with a good engine/body.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300004


I'll chime in along with the other posters: I can understand that you are upset but to try to channel anger that to IDparts.com is just plain wrong.
 

cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
I'll chime in along with the other posters: I can understand that you are upset but to try to channel anger that to IDparts.com is just plain wrong.
My error in very poor communication. I edited the original post a bit, but it likely is too late to undo the harm in this thread. I did not feel angry about anything, nor have ever had anything but good will towards IDparts.com.

Now, I got a reply back to Corey, and it is perhaps improper to quote an email here that I received from him, so maybe I can reply back and ask him to post, only if he likes and thinks there is any need for more clarification. The gist of what he said, I think is that somewhere here on TDIClub are oil wear analysis results showing Total Ineo 5w30 is the best for oil wear rates. Is there some contradictory results from anybody logged here for PD engine cam wear for 5w30 oil on this issue? If so, then I really can't draw any conclusion (and many of you believe it is a stretch for me to do this anyway when running wvo for fuel, so please understand I am aware of that already)
 
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cevans

TDIClub Enthusiast, TDI Parts Ninja Vendor , w/Bus
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Location
Hingham, MA
TDI
2015 Beetle Conv. TDI 6-Speed & 2006 E320 CDI
I was able to drag up the thread - more clarification:

MC3 is #1 of the 505.01 oils, #4 in all. The member with lowest wear metals is an MC3 user. The list is not a large enough sampling to draw serious conclusions about what oil is better than what, but it does show that MC3 is a very good oil, and that other 505.01 5w30 weights perform fine as well.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814

More and more it seems that the 5w40 oils are better able to handle the stresses on the cam, but, a 40 weight oil isn't going to fully solve a design problem.
 
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cevans

TDIClub Enthusiast, TDI Parts Ninja Vendor , w/Bus
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Location
Hingham, MA
TDI
2015 Beetle Conv. TDI 6-Speed & 2006 E320 CDI
Didn't see the WVO thing until now. That changes things - the 505.01 spec and oil is made to be used on engines running on diesel.

Read the guide, follow it religiously:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=268640

WVO will cause lubrication issues, and oil changes should be shortened significantly. If your WVO is at all below top-notch you'll need to change even more frequently. Unfortunately, engine rebuilds are par for the course.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Great! I just logged on to post that I've reached an agreement to sell the Cabrio, meaning I'd be keeping the B5.5....and this! Just great!

Can the lobe edges be viewed with the injectors and their rockers still in situ?

The cover gasket/seal says 'replace together with cylinder head cover.'
Huh?:confused:

Does that mean: it's one-time-use, i.e. "any time it's opened requires installing a new cover and a new gasket and new sealant",
or
does it mean "use a new seal if installing a new cover, otherwise the old seal can be re-used with the old cover, but always use new sealant"?
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
That would be a long block....short blocks are sans the head.

Just put another engine in it. I had read somewhere on this forum that you can buy a short block from the dealer for about 2600$, which has the new cam and the updated geared oil pump . Therefore you would have a basically new engine, new cam, and be chainless all at same time. To me, that's a much better option then trying to find a used engine with unknown history somewhere. JMHO

Go to the topic, "Question For TDI Gurus" and read HOs post #3
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
Great! I just logged on to post that I've reached an agreement to sell the Cabrio, meaning I'd be keeping the B5.5....and this! Just great!

Can the lobe edges be viewed with the injectors and their rockers still in situ?

The cover gasket/seal says 'replace together with cylinder head cover.'
Huh?:confused:

Does that mean: it's one-time-use, i.e. "any time it's opened requires installing a new cover and a new gasket and new sealant",
or
does it mean "use a new seal if installing a new cover, otherwise the old seal can be re-used with the old cover, but always use new sealant"?
Yes, you can view the lobes by rotating the engine by hand.

You can reuse the cover and its gasket (you can get the gasket separately in spite of what you read). However, you must clean off the old sealant that is at the outer bearing caps and apply fresh sealant (I use the same as what I use for the oil pan in BSM replacements) where the caps meet the head and over the tops of them. It will leak oil if you don't.
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
Yes, you can view the lobes by rotating the engine by hand.

You can reuse the cover and its gasket (you can get the gasket separately in spite of what you read). However, you must clean off the old sealant that is at the outer bearing caps and apply fresh sealant (I use the same as what I use for the oil pan in BSM replacements) where the caps meet the head and over the tops of them. It will leak oil if you don't.
For reference, what is the part number then for the gasket?
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Great! I just logged on to post that I've reached an agreement to sell the Cabrio, meaning I'd be keeping the B5.5....and this! Just great
Great meeting you at the Jersey Dyno Day..... Cool you sold the Cabriolet. Thats one unique car. Jason just replaced the cam on my B.5.5 and I got rocketchip to do a 1-plus tune. I had 175K on mine and had always used spec oil. If I,m guilty of anything its changing oil TOO often , which can also be a bad thing.
I put the BEW cam in at the recommendation of Aaron @ Bora parts. I knew i would lose the torque but he said would make up the difference with tune.
Sorry now i didn't stick with BHW cam. Jason tells me he can get them quite readily.
Car runs good with tune but seems to have more turbo lag. Certain RPM's its kind of sluggish and then zoom.
Actually I had limp mode kick in cruising on highway around 75mph (twice). Wondering if that has to do with tune or MAF or whatever?
If you need the cam talk to Jason as he has a ready source for BHW cam.

Chris
 

tdiblair

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Location
CT Yankee
TDI
Passat 2005 silver Passat Sedan & 2005 Wagon Stone Henge Gray
Just put another engine in it. I had read somewhere on this forum that you can buy a short block from the dealer for about 2600$, which has the new cam and the updated geared oil pump . Therefore you would have a basically new engine, new cam, and be chainless all at same time. To me, that's a much better option then trying to find a used engine with unknown history somewhere. JMHO

Go to the topic, "Question For TDI Gurus" and read HOs post #3

If the balance shaft gears - alone- are around $1300 and u get a whole shortblock for double the money? Not bad. Next I wonder if a ShortBlock comes with a new timing belt? Another bonus if it does. Next you mentioned a ' New Cam.' Heck, I wonder when I reach the 80,000 mile mark and need a new timing belt and ' Chainless' balance shaft - Those two items together will be about what, $400 ish for a delux timing belt kit with water pump and $1300 for the balance shaft gears. I'm alread past the 1/2 mark for a new shorblock. Wonder what the labor difference is between switching out a shortblock and doing a timing belt and balance sharft? Any chance a new shorblock comes with new unit injectors?

Tdi Blair
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
If the balance shaft gears - alone- are around $1300 and u get a whole shortblock for double the money? Not bad. Next I wonder if a ShortBlock comes with a new timing belt? Another bonus if it does. Next you mentioned a ' New Cam.' Heck, I wonder when I reach the 80,000 mile mark and need a new timing belt and ' Chainless' balance shaft - Those two items together will be about what, $400 ish for a delux timing belt kit with water pump and $1300 for the balance shaft gears. I'm alread past the 1/2 mark for a new shorblock. Wonder what the labor difference is between switching out a shortblock and doing a timing belt and balance sharft? Any chance a new shorblock comes with new unit injectors?

Tdi Blair
The shortblock does not include the cylinder head.
 
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