my new golf tdi, towing my airstream

[eric 2010 golf]

While I am usually very conservative in how I treat my car, I resist the notion that these cars cannot tow, that the HPFP will suffer as a result, and that they somehow can't control a trailer when my experience towing many thousands of miles with a 99 and my 2010 tells me quite the opposite. For those of you out there saying that I just haven't run into the right situation to cause me to crash my overweight, undercontrolled rig, remember your car can always be put in a situation it can't handle, either. I have taken every reasonable precaution to prevent problems, and I maintain my car fanatically. I even replaced the "rain shields" under my car when deep snow damaged them. Few others would bother.

My cars have both been manual trans, I almost joke that I don't know how to drive an automatic, and it's sorta true. I feel they are never in the right gear and I don't have as much control for engine braking or free wheeling. I have towed in rain, snow, heat, cold, mud, newly paved and pure gravel roads. I have on more than one occasion overloaded my rig, even by my standards, and I take much greater precautions as needed when towing. I love that I get ridiculous fuel economy 365 days a year and can also tow 15-20 days per year. I believe this is the best that automotive design and engineering can offer. I also bought a warranty that will cover almost any failure, including the HPFP ( VW backed plan that takes the car to 9 years old and 109k mi) and will sell the car just before it expires at 109k miles, and likely buy a new one just like it, as I did the last time. I will, however, at that time look at a Colorado diesel, and if they bring the Transit Connect in a diesel I will look at that. For now, I love my Golf, its easy and better-than-competent driveability and handling, and its sporty feel and look. It will be diesel for me all the way, and my hope is that the HPFP issue will be resolved not only for VW but for their competitors as well.

I admit I know how to type here and that's about it, but if someone wants to teach me how to post pics, I will post some of Al, my Golf, and Bjorn, our Viking trailer for your enjoyment.

 

[CraziFuzzy]

While I am usually very conservative in how I treat my car, I resist the notion that these cars cannot tow, that the HPFP will suffer as a result...

I have no reason to think towing will somehow affect the HPFP (I don't THINK I even implied that). My concern was simply being out on a trailering trip the next time the pump goes out. If we are just driving it as a daily driver, it is just waiting for a tow. Even if we're on a non-towing long distance road trip, it's still just a tow to the nearest dealer, and maybe a rental to continue the trip and/or head for home. Neither of these are major catastrophes. However, if I'm halfway across the country with my family and trailer, then we're looking for a rental that can tow, which are harder to find. That's really the only problem I have with it (towing wise).

In the end, I'm likely going to sell the TDI before the 12,000 mile warranty on the most recent repair is up, because I have no guarantee VW is going to continue replacing the fuel system for me after 105,000 miles, and the repair would end up being half the value of the vehicle.

 

[kpants]

My cars have both been manual trans, I almost joke that I don't know how to drive an automatic, and it's sorta true. I feel they are never in the right gear and I don't have as much control for engine braking or free wheeling.
.

the auto trans in my audi has been pretty smart about gear selection and downshifting for me. Plus if you want it to down or up shift it has the paddles so you can put it in whatever gear you want. Although I have found that it doesn't need it after getting used to driving it. It holds gears longer (higher rpm) with the same pedal input when I am towing and it engine brakes and/or downshifts going down hills with no input. Also, the autos use NO (really, none) fuel when in gear and coasting, I dont know if the manuals do this or not... This took getting used to as I would normally just put it in neutral to coast for saving fuel, but if you are going down hill enough to equal or overcome the engine brake it gets much better mileage in gear coasting or even coasting up to stops and such than it does in neutral.

 

[eric 2010 golf]

I know many people, especially the engineers, who say the auto is better in many ways, faster acceleration, smoother operation, and more. The tow rating on the auto is 1/3 less in the US, so I prefer the manual and I prefer to coast sometimes not because I want to save fuel but because I want no rolling resistance from the trans that might cause a skid in ice or snow, plus it's the best way to defeat their "hill descent assist" feature that has nearly caused me to crash my car. I'm of course joking that I don't know how to drive an automatic, but I'm really not joking when I say I know how they work (which is excellent compared to other auto trans vehicles) but I still prefer having some control over my car, and even in my manual, VW has managed to take away more of that than I would prefer.

 

[kpants]

What are we talking about here? Ice Road Trucking? I'm not sure how it could cause you to crash, It's always been a smooth transition and never caused any loss of traction. Manuals are much more likely to lose traction in my experience. My experience ranges from 90hp to 1000hp from dry pavement to sand dunes to mud to snow and ice. Personally, I have more control over an automatic than I do a manual. Even in our big Army trucks I prefer the newer automatics over the old manuals. I can manipulate the brake and accelerator at the same time much more easily in sticky situations, plus almost all manuals have gear hold/select now anyway...

just put it in neutral, i do it all the time... auto still has neutral. I'm not bashing manuals by any means. However, if your argument against them is that you don't like the downshifts or "descent assist" then just put it in neutral.

Of course, it's your choice and there's nothing wrong with that. If the manual works best for you then that's obviously what you need... I guess it all boils down to preference and driving style. I just find manuals to be more of an annoyance than benefit on anything other than my toys (race car, motorcycle, etc) The lower tow rating is probably related to lack of transmission fluid cooler which could be added

 

[eric 2010 golf]

Specifically addressing the hill descent assist, mine has always been exceptionally intrusive, and when I go over a specific bridge that has a bump followed by a downhill stretch, if I don't have the car in neutral, the instant I touch the fuel pedal, the engine is choked by the computer and on more than one occasion I have asked them to disable this feature but they won't. The car has at least 3 times skidded in this spot if I forget and leave it in gear. Once there was no snow, just rain. By just pressing the clutch, I can avoid this and have it back in the same gear I had it in instantly. I know the auto trans is really good in these cars, but I just don't want one and I think it offers less control for pulling a trailer, I get more aggressive engine braking if I want it, I can skip a gear up or down and that whole Toyota thing about out of control acceleration won't happen if I just press the clutch. Also, should there be a brake failure, I can use not only the rear brakes via the hand brake but I can shut off the engine and use the clutch to brake. Plus, it's less likely to be stolen. I don't have my head in the sand, even Ford doesn't want you to tow with their manual trans in the F150, so they are making them specifically for towing. I just don't like them.

 

[kpants]

Specifically addressing the hill descent assist, mine has always been exceptionally intrusive, and when I go over a specific bridge that has a bump followed by a downhill stretch, if I don't have the car in neutral, the instant I touch the fuel pedal, the engine is choked by the computer and on more than one occasion I have asked them to disable this feature but they won't. The car has at least 3 times skidded in this spot if I forget and leave it in gear. Once there was no snow, just rain. By just pressing the clutch, I can avoid this and have it back in the same gear I had it in instantly. I know the auto trans is really good in these cars, but I just don't want one and I think it offers less control for pulling a trailer, I get more aggressive engine braking if I want it, I can skip a gear up or down and that whole Toyota thing about out of control acceleration won't happen if I just press the clutch. Also, should there be a brake failure, I can use not only the rear brakes via the hand brake but I can shut off the engine and use the clutch to brake. Plus, it's less likely to be stolen. I don't have my head in the sand, even Ford doesn't want you to tow with their manual trans in the F150, so they are making them specifically for towing. I just don't like them.

That's true, you do get more engine braking in the manual. I've heard one or two other people talk about disliking the DSG and it's descent assist deal, I wonder if it's a little different on the Audi versions. Anyway, I get what you're saying.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Hill descent assist? You mean when it downshifts going down hill when you ride the brake pedal?

1.) don't ride the brake pedal
2.) put it in manual mode so it doesn't downshift

I don't really see how this can make you lose control, either, as the DSG's downshifts are very smooth and don't really upset the balance of the car.

Also, it's behavior is very predictable. It does the same thing every time. If you can't figure out what it is going to do and when, then you aren't paying enough attention or something.

Maybe I need more clarification on what your guys are talking about.

 

[eric 2010 golf]

Vee Dub
We are talking about a feature where the computer actually chokes the fuel to the engine on a downhill grade NOT when you touch the brake but when you touch the fuel. Mine has done this since new, it is called a "safety feature" but because I own a manual, it cuts power DIRECTLY to the wheels, and in most cases, it's not a problem, but even driving down gentle hills here in Pgh, I can feel it pulsing the fuel supply even when I'm applying throttle. It's very annoying in the manual, but again, as a "safety feature" they won't disable it. I'm quite serious when I say it has skidded and I have lost steering very briefly because this bump causes the inertia sensor to think the hill is massive, and the response from the system is sharp. The only way for me to control it is to have it in neutral, which I normally do. If I had an auto trans, the torque converter would mitigate this effect, and I even theorized that my car had the wrong BCM, but the dealer of course thinks this is crazy, so que sera.

 

[kpants]

Vee Dub
We are talking about a feature where the computer actually chokes the fuel to the engine on a downhill grade NOT when you touch the brake but when you touch the fuel. Mine has done this since new, it is called a "safety feature" but because I own a manual, it cuts power DIRECTLY to the wheels, and in most cases, it's not a problem, but even driving down gentle hills here in Pgh, I can feel it pulsing the fuel supply even when I'm applying throttle. It's very annoying in the manual, but again, as a "safety feature" they won't disable it. I'm quite serious when I say it has skidded and I have lost steering very briefly because this bump causes the inertia sensor to think the hill is massive, and the response from the system is sharp. The only way for me to control it is to have it in neutral, which I normally do. If I had an auto trans, the torque converter would mitigate this effect, and I even theorized that my car had the wrong BCM, but the dealer of course thinks this is crazy, so que sera.

yeah man, I think there is something not quite right about your car. The injectors shut off when you let go of the pedal and leave it in gear on the auto, that's a fuel saving thing though... This completely stops fuel flow (at the injectors), but cannot cause the wheels to lock up. Now you've got me confused. You're saying your manual transmission does this? I thought we were talking about the auto, and I thought you were talking about to downshifts too.

EDIT: If you've got an inertia switch cutting off the fuel pump (which is what they do) then that is NOT downhill assist or anything like that and it is completely unrelated to the transmission... that is a crash protection thing that disables the fuel pump when you crash and you need to get your car fixed.

 

[ATR]

Vee Dub
We are talking about a feature where the computer actually chokes the fuel to the engine on a downhill grade NOT when you touch the brake but when you touch the fuel. Mine has done this since new, it is called a "safety feature" but because I own a manual, it cuts power DIRECTLY to the wheels, and in most cases, it's not a problem, but even driving down gentle hills here in Pgh, I can feel it pulsing the fuel supply even when I'm applying throttle. It's very annoying in the manual, but again, as a "safety feature" they won't disable it. I'm quite serious when I say it has skidded and I have lost steering very briefly because this bump causes the inertia sensor to think the hill is massive, and the response from the system is sharp. The only way for me to control it is to have it in neutral, which I normally do. If I had an auto trans, the torque converter would mitigate this effect, and I even theorized that my car had the wrong BCM, but the dealer of course thinks this is crazy, so que sera.

Just to echo the above advice of kpants...
I also own a 6sp manual and what you're describing to me has never happened to me. If it's something that's readily repeatable I'd take it to the dealer and have it looked at.

 

[eric 2010 golf]

The effect is always present but mostly unintrusive. When I am traveling on the freeway down a grade, adding throttle will cause the engine to pulse at a very slow frequency but the most dangerous bit of it is when I go over that specific bridge with the downward incline following. It does it every time, without fail, and I have taken to just keeping it in neutral over that bit of road. I have taken it to the dealer and mentioned it at least 3 times, but my dealer is in a flatter area than where I live, so they never find a problem with it. I have called VW customer service and told them it has skidded, they assert it's a safety feature and cannot be disabled. I think they're crazy, they think I'm crazy, it's a mutual "you're crazy" society going on. The behavior has never changed since new and they have never found a problem, and I hate it, but I can't get rid of it nor prove that it's a problem. My dealer, btw, is about 30 miles from my house, and the bridge, so they're not coming here to experience the problem.

 

[ATR]

Hmmm I'll have to test this out as I have some hills on my daily commute...

 

[CraziFuzzy]

Vee Dub
We are talking about a feature where the computer actually chokes the fuel to the engine on a downhill grade NOT when you touch the brake but when you touch the fuel. Mine has done this since new, it is called a "safety feature" but because I own a manual, it cuts power DIRECTLY to the wheels, and in most cases, it's not a problem, but even driving down gentle hills here in Pgh, I can feel it pulsing the fuel supply even when I'm applying throttle. It's very annoying in the manual, but again, as a "safety feature" they won't disable it. I'm quite serious when I say it has skidded and I have lost steering very briefly because this bump causes the inertia sensor to think the hill is massive, and the response from the system is sharp. The only way for me to control it is to have it in neutral, which I normally do. If I had an auto trans, the torque converter would mitigate this effect, and I even theorized that my car had the wrong BCM, but the dealer of course thinks this is crazy, so que sera.

Just like to point out that the idea that it is different because it is a manual shows a misunderstanding of how a DSG operates. In the DSG, the wheels are locked to the engine, just like in a manual. There is no torque converter allowing slip. The only slip that happens in a DSG is during gear changes, just like in a manual, except in the DSG, that is only a slight fraction of a second.

Regarding your issue, I have never experienced any sort of engine cutout or pulsing from the TDi, no matter how many hills or high railroad crossings I fly over. There's a chance something is triggering the stability program. If that's the case, it should be illuminating the light on the instrument cluster (the car with the squiggly tire marks). This CAN be disabled with the ESD Off button (short press disables it partially, long press disables if fully). I'd only do this to verify what is causing it, and certainly don't recommend disabling this as a practice.

 

[ATR]

Hmmm I'll have to test this out as I have some hills on my daily commute...

Quick update... Car does exactly what I would expect it to do under part or full throttle going downhill. That it it simply goes faster with no pulsing or other drama.

Just like to point out that the idea that it is different because it is a manual shows a misunderstanding of how a DSG operates. In the DSG, the wheels are locked to the engine, just like in a manual. There is no torque converter allowing slip. The only slip that happens in a DSG is during gear changes, just like in a manual, except in the DSG, that is only a slight fraction of a second.
Regarding your issue, I have never experienced any sort of engine cutout or pulsing from the TDi, no matter how many hills or high railroad crossings I fly over. There's a chance something is triggering the stability program. If that's the case, it should be illuminating the light on the instrument cluster (the car with the squiggly tire marks). This CAN be disabled with the ESD Off button (short press disables it partially, long press disables if fully). I'd only do this to verify what is causing it, and certainly don't recommend disabling this as a practice.

Long press does NOT disable stability control in the US unless you modify the abs via vagcom. Only thing that can be done as default is disable traction (short press).

 

[CraziFuzzy]

Long press does NOT disable stability control in the US unless you modify the abs via vagcom. Only thing that can be done as default is disable traction (short press).

Might vary by year then, because my '09 does unmodified.

 

[eric 2010 golf]

So I guess I'm not being clear enough.... the engine doesn't STOP, it just slows, and the bump/hill makes it slow so drastically that it has skidded. A wheel need not stop to skid, only slow enough to overcome its traction. Now, as far as the injectors shutting off, I don't know that this is what is happening, the engine operates smoothly at all times, it just sort of de-powers when I am going downhill. This has been described to me as a normal operation of what the dealers (plural) have called hill-descent assist. I have hated this behavior since the day I bought the car, but after 3 times requesting repair at 2 different dealers, I have given up.

I do have a question about the DSG... if it has no torque converter, how does it allow idle in gear at a stop? Does it actually have a clutch? There has to be some way for the trans to disengage the engine from the wheels.

 

[CraziFuzzy]

So I guess I'm not being clear enough.... the engine doesn't STOP, it just slows, and the bump/hill makes it slow so drastically that it has skidded. A wheel need not stop to skid, only slow enough to overcome its traction. Now, as far as the injectors shutting off, I don't know that this is what is happening, the engine operates smoothly at all times, it just sort of de-powers when I am going downhill. This has been described to me as a normal operation of what the dealers (plural) have called hill-descent assist. I have hated this behavior since the day I bought the car, but after 3 times requesting repair at 2 different dealers, I have given up.
I do have a question about the DSG... if it has no torque converter, how does it allow idle in gear at a stop? Does it actually have a clutch? There has to be some way for the trans to disengage the engine from the wheels.

The DSG is essentially two 3-speed manual gearboxes, that are automatically controlled. One has the odd gears, the other has the even gears. The outputs are tied together, and each has it's own computer controlled clutch from the common input shaft. Sitting at a stop, the transmission is sitting in both 1st and 2nd gear at the same time. When you take your foot off the brake, it engages the clutch on the odd gearbox, and the car takes off in 1st. As it accelerates, and needs to shift to second, all it does is disengage the odd clutch, and engage the even clutch. (8ms or so gear shift time). While accelerating in 2nd gear, the odd gearbox syncs and shifts into 3rd gear, awaiting the next gear change, and so on.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

 

[ATR]

Might vary by year then, because my '09 does unmodified.

That must have changed in 2010... Afaik all VWs newer then 2010 can't fully disable stability control.

 

[JBizz]

Interesting. O want to tow a small sleeper trailer and a small fishing boat in my future with my 2015 golf tdi.

My future mods would be airbag inside the springs, electronic brake setup, tranny cooler, and higher load tires. Im not looking to tow anything over 2000 pounds. The first few years is roofing it with a kayak n tents.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[eric 2010 golf]

Towing just 2k pounds, I don't think you need many of those mods. The electronic brake control: hint, the brake sensor for your brake controller needs to pull its signal from the highmount brake light in the hatch. Anywhere else and it doesn't work properly. I am envious if you find airbag suspension assist, I would LOVE to have this. I rather think your existing trans cooler will suffice for the degree of towing you are doing, and higher load tires are not probably needed at all since you won't be adding more tongue weight than the equivalent of 2 or 3 adult rear passengers.
Just got back from 100 mile trip towing 2,200 pounds 70-80 mph, got 30.2 mpg. I love this vehicle for towing.

 

[D_Squared]

Towing just 2k pounds, I don't think you need many of those mods. The electronic brake control: hint, the brake sensor for your brake controller needs to pull its signal from the highmount brake light in the hatch. Anywhere else and it doesn't work properly. I am envious if you find airbag suspension assist, I would LOVE to have this. I rather think your existing trans cooler will suffice for the degree of towing you are doing, and higher load tires are not probably needed at all since you won't be adding more tongue weight than the equivalent of 2 or 3 adult rear passengers.
Just got back from 100 mile trip towing 2,200 pounds 70-80 mph, got 30.2 mpg. I love this vehicle for towing.

Ask and you shall receive.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=311882&highlight=air+springs

 

[JerryV]

Where can you purchase a hitch online designed to handle those weights? I have a 2001 jetta

 

[mustgofaster]

http://www.eurohitches.com/golfjetta-mk4-19992005-2wd-p-18.html

 

[Silver911Bullet]

Well, compared to airstreamer, what I'm thinking of doing is child's play. I've been trying to get an answer to whether it be workable to buy a 2010+ Golf TDI to tow a 1200 lb trailer (trailer weight and load) from Denver to LA (that means crossing the Rockies). My guess is 4-6 times a year. I welcome all comments - pro or con.
Thanks in advance.

 

[eric 2010 golf]

not a problem

In my experience, towing just 1,200 pounds with this car isn't a problem. As with any towing, you need to monitor your speed, the weight distribution of the trailer, and the proper operation of lighting. If you have brakes, that makes it a WHOLE lot easier, but with that weight is still quite manageable. Will you be able to see beyond the trailer as you tow it? There are accessory mirrors that work well with this car, but I find I no longer need them.

Trailering requires attention to detail and changing the way you drive when you are towing. Keep extra stopping distance, leave a much larger "way out" in case the vehicle(s) in front of you stop or swerve suddenly. If you encounter sway, know how to handle it and how to make adjustments to the load to help minimize or eliminate it. One thing I do to preserve the longevity of my car is keep the RPMs up around 2k unless there is barely any load on the car (I'm just trying to avoid lugging the engine, which is bad for it.) ]
I towed with my MK5 many many thousands of miles, one trailer weighed nearly 3k pounds and I towed it to Chicago from Pittsburgh. I also towed many loads from Pittsburgh to Charleston, WV. I owned a popup trailer and towed it dozens of times, as well as a cargo trailer I took 40+ miles each way dozens of times. My new car, an MK6, pulls much stronger, although I must admit the other car stopped better. I got 190k on that car with the original clutch.

 

[lorge1989]

So when you are going down a hill and try to stop what happens?

 

[eric 2010 golf]

With my popup camper, the electric brakes make the trailer "brake neutral", which means the braking power necessary to stop the trailer comes completely from the electric trailer brakes. With my cargo trailer, which doesn't have electric brakes, it means I keep a longer distance than I would if I weren't towing, similar to if I were driving, say an american SUV, since that has a longer stopping distance than my Golf does when it isn't towing. In my old Golf, the braking power was much greater, and additional braking wasn't necessary, although I did keep extra distance out of an abundance of caution.

 

[ksmoker]

i've actually driven the rig through 50-60mph crosswinds, no problem (other than a increase in fuel consumption). insurance has no problem insuring the rig or tow vehicle either.
in europe smaller cars tow RVs all the time (and smaller cars have towed RVs in north america in the 50s,60s,70s,etc...), but i wouldn't expect your pea-sized texas brain (i guess not everything is bigger in texas, eh?) to be able to comprehend anything outside of your bubble of being sold the the marketing from truck companies. Can-AM has been in business for 40 years.
get your head out of your ass before you spew a bunch of nonesense you know absolutely nothing about.
can you "AMAGINE" that?

Yes, I know this comment is 3.5 years old, but... hahaha.

I got a kick out of this entire thread. Stumbled across it because I've been racking up a ton of tow miles on my suburban, and I'm seriously thinking about starting to use my golf for that instead. The haters and naysayers are pure entertainment.

 

[skyking1]

With the proper load I see no reason NOT to tow with a TDI. I have the hitch in and the 4 pin wiring now, and a light tent trailer chassis that has been gutted for use as a utility trailer. It will get significant remodeling before I tow it though.
Does the "take the signal from the high mount single tail light apply to my MKIV too? I figure I could get it from the curt wiring adapter as well.
I am conservative and even a 1200 pound tow will have brakes on my car. I have towed across the country with 70K in a semi, towed heavy equipment, my 5th wheels, and many other light trailers. Brakes do much more than help you stop. If traction is dicey ( hey, why did I even leave? Sometimes conditions change ) a quick flick of the manual brake lever can save the day and straighten things up.
I had overhauled the backhoe trailer brakes at one of my employers years ago, and was hauling the backhoe at what I thought was a prudent speed. Around the corner traffic had come to a complete halt. I had over-driven my visibility
I got on the brakes and the combination stopped faster than I could believe. I was sold on having good trailer brakes.