My Engine Mount Problem (with pics)

[rowl]

I was wondering what the guys that race the TDI's do? Surely they produce enough torque to break the mounts. They must have a fix........

 

[Losha]

Hey, I have 2001 Golf and I had same problem with my engine mount. I was going to go wash my car and I just got out of driveway when I heard weird noise so backed up into my garage and opened hood and I see my left side of enigine is lower then right side. I replaced bolts but I didn't replace TB or any thing else just bolts and I had block mounting broken too. I assume that someone was replacing TB and broke it because you could see someone been working on it. I have 109350 miles on it and belt looks to me allright, should I replace it or not, and does any one know where I can get TB upper cover because main is damaged.

 

[Kevinski]

OK, belt should be changed at specified intervals regardless of what it looks like. Do a search on timing belt interval based on your year/tranny. If the belt breaks, you are spending lots of money to fix motor if it can be fixed. The faq section should give you the interval or your owners manual.

If the tab on the block is broken, then the above fix is the way to go. Timing belt cover is a dealer item or Impex. Impex will probably be you better price.

Are you saying the bolts have been replaced after you discovered the broken mount? It sounds like either of two things:

1) They started the job, discovered the broken block, and traded the car in or sold it to you?

2) Did the belt change, left a bolt loose (two) and this caused the tab on the block to break?

Is the break a fresh clean no rust break or does it look like it has been awhile. It could have been broken all along, and one of the other bolts finally let go.

If you don't know when that belt was changed, you need to get that taken care of.

Either way, you have some work to do. Give some more details. Kevin

 

[Losha]

Thanks, for reply, I went to dealer and got information on my TDI, timing belt been replaced when car had 107000 miles on, but don't about if dealer replaced engine mounting bolts when was replacing TB. My theory is that they didn't replaced bolts and then went off.

 

[UK_Pete]

Hello Wingnut,

Thanks for the useful info on fixing the broken engine mount. I have the same problem with my TDI and will try to do the fix. Can you say how well this fix (and any other similar ones) have lasted?

 

[thortdi]

Hello Wingnut,

Thanks for the useful info on fixing the broken engine mount. I have the same problem with my TDI and will try to do the fix. Can you say how well this fix (and any other similar ones) have lasted?

Holy Moly ! How widespread is this problem with the 99.5> ALH's ? Looking at this pic http://www.fototime.com/BE96C7F58D96F1D/standard.jpg it seems VW didn't have a good handle on placing the flange ! Is the failure mechanism the flange breaking off the block in the first place or is it the bolts shearing/breaking ? If it's the latter, replacing the 3 lower bolts for a couple bucks sounds like a good insurance against a falling engine...

 

[DaveGaunt]

Wingnut, I have the fuoll kit of tools and VAG-Com. Email me at gaunt@nornet.on.ca for more info.

 

[DeafBug]

Holy Moly ! How widespread is this problem with the 99.5> ALH's ? Looking at this pic http://www.fototime.com/BE96C7F58D96F1D/standard.jpg it seems VW didn't have a good handle on placing the flange ! Is the failure mechanism the flange breaking off the block in the first place or is it the bolts shearing/breaking ? If it's the latter, replacing the 3 lower bolts for a couple bucks sounds like a good insurance against a falling engine...

Depends. First time removal of mount can let you reuse the bolts. I have seen cars that have the same bolt after 4 timing belt changes. Bottom line as mentioned in other posts is that the bolt was tighten (overtorqued) than it is allowed for OR bolt is not tighten (undertorqued) when it should be allowing play room for the bolt to move which weakens the flange on the engine.

Simple rule is all 3 bolts must be to proper torque. For safety insurance, DBW in some post said to replace them on the 3rd change. That is assuming the bolt was properly torqued each time. We all know dealers don't as it is the difficult bolt to get to. (Since most of us bought our cars used, Dieselgeek is nice to include those 3 bolts in his kit to give you a fresh start.)

 

[UK_Pete]

Holy Moly ! How widespread is this problem with the 99.5> ALH's ? Looking at this pic http://www.fototime.com/BE96C7F58D96F1D/standard.jpg it seems VW didn't have a good handle on placing the flange ! Is the failure mechanism the flange breaking off the block in the first place or is it the bolts shearing/breaking ? If it's the latter, replacing the 3 lower bolts for a couple bucks sounds like a good insurance against a falling engine...

For my car it was the flange breaking off first. I know this because I found the broken part sitting in the tray when I did an oil change. I didn't worry too much at the time, as there was nothing apparently wrong with the car as the remaining two bolts were holding the engine. The full consequences revealed themselves later, when the bolts broke...

I have now carried out the fix as described by Wingnut, and so far all is good with the car. I made a drawing of the bracket, with measurements, as accurately as I could. If anyone wants this drawing then email me direct (I don't check the TDI forum that often) on peter@pcrawley.freeserve.co.uk and I'll send you the file.

This bracket was OK for my car, which has engine code AJM. It may not fit other engines, although it looks the same as Wingnut's bracket.

Thanks again to Wingnut. Until I read of his fix, I had no idea how to get round this problem!

 

[FirstOrbit84]

WELL, my engine mounts just broke and took some of the block with it, (not to mention various other damage) because instead of being bolted to the mounts, the engine was EPOXIED on with silacone!

now the dealer says my extended warranty probably won't cover this because they'll see the epoxy when they send out an adjuster. i'm getting an estimate tomorrow.

does this sound fixable? what should i do?

 

[chirorob]

Sue whoever sold you the car.

 

[ninedee_golf_tdi]

Hard to determine the damage without a picture or two.

 

[FirstOrbit84]

Hard to determine the damage without a picture or two.

A picture or two:

Here's a close-up of the damage (Notice the JBweld or something around the mount):

This is from underneath (i think) with the bottom bolt sheared off into the block:

When we got under the car the technician started noticing that a lot of parts like the subframe and the steering components on the passenger side were changed with factory parts as if the car had bottomed out bad.

None of the work was done under warranty and they obvously cut corners and didn't replace or properly repair the engine block and mounts. And, suspiciously when the technician looked up where the parts came from, they were from the Volkwagen Dealership right across from the Honda dealership where I bought the car.

How could reputable and supposedly professional dealership technicians not notice a problem like this during inspection before they sold the car? More importantly, how could they allow a car to be sold in this condition?

I tried to get another mechanic in to look at it today to see if he thinks he could fabricate a mount, but he left because the dealership locked up the car and wouldn't give him the keys for forty-five minutes even though I had called three times to let them know he was coming. Once they get you in there and slap you with a $6000+ estimate they don't want to let you leave. The service rep even told us to donate the car to a high school shop class or charity!

I'm going to stick it to the guys who sold me the car before I try to repair it out of my own pocket. We have lemon laws in Florida. Lemme know what you guys think I should do or what's possible, or if these pictures help at all. Thanks for your help.

 

[BrianCT]

... Lemme know what you guys think I should do or what's possible, or if these pictures help at all. Thanks for your help.

Small claims court, repair the car at your own expense and go to small claims court against the dealership for selling you a botched and band-aided used car off their lot ...which they will not honor a warranty against.

Brian

 

[wjbski]

contact the State Police and get a report of what happened. No, really. What that dealership did was gross neglegance, and they know it just by the way they reacted by locking up the car and not letting a technician look at the car. Call your insurance company,too. get a claims adjuster involved.

The bigger 'stink' you make on your end will only help you, otherwise the stealership will bully you around. The bastards were too cheap to fix it properly because it would have cut into their profit margin, but it was ok for them to send someone out in that car because they made money on the deal. 'F' that!

On a side note, after readingthis thread, I looked at the engine that I pulled from my TDi. Sure enough, the ear was busted off! From the amount of rust/oxidation it's been missing for a while. Even the bolt is missing.
Thankfully the replacement engine isn't missing the ear, so I'm going to fab up that bracket, run a longer bolt through the top hole and back up the bracket with a nut. Maybe it will be a cheap insurance policy.

 

[whitedog]

Here my timing belt definately looks stripped but it seems to still have tension, either way I'll need a TB and Tensioner.

The air conditioner pump is run off of the Timing belt?

Me thinks not.

 

[MOGolf]

Thankfully the replacement engine isn't missing the ear, so I'm going to fab up that bracket, run a longer bolt through the top hole and back up the bracket with a nut. Maybe it will be a cheap insurance policy.

You'll find that the bracket design will have to be changed to fit a non-broken engine. The in-place tab will obstruct the top end and "push" the bracket away from a smooth contact with the block.

 

[MOGolf]

As whitedog points out, that is the serpentine belt, not the timing belt.

 

[wjbski]

You'll find that the bracket design will have to be changed to fit a non-broken engine. The in-place tab will obstruct the top end and "push" the bracket away from a smooth contact with the block.

thanks for the advice! I'll come up with a design that will work and post the finished product. Maybe it will help someone else from having their block get destroyed.

 

[FirstOrbit84]

As whitedog points out, that is the serpentine belt, not the timing belt.

oh, sorry i'm still kinda new here. in that case, the timing belt seemed to be okay.

update: i'm getting the car towed today to where i bought it and see if they try to F* me too. once they do (which im sure will happen), then i'll have to get lawyers involved and most likely still have to come out of pocket to get this engine remounted somehow.

 

[BrianCT]

once they do (which im sure will happen), then i'll have to get lawyers involved

Before you go there remember you have a State Attorneys Office you can contact either by fax or phone. Many react upon these issues pretty seriously.

Gregory Robert Miller, USA*
111 N. Adams Street, 4th Floor
Tallahassee, FL 32301
Web Site | Press Releases

(850)942-8430PH (850)942-9577FAX
300 East University Avenue, Suite 310

Gainesville, FL 32601
(352)378-0996PH (352)371-1912FAX

 

[JohnnyAction]

Thanks to everyone for their input on this problem. Up until a couple of hours ago, i thought i was going for a new motor. I suspect that my putting the car in reverse before coming to a complete stop and reversing uphill in my driveway finally did the mount in. I hope that the fabricated bracket will work for me also. Wish me luck and I'll keep you all posted. Thanks,
John

 

[Wingnut]

Just a quick update since this thread was revived. I have had this repair on my car now for over 100k km. It is still as strong as the day I put it on. IMO, it is a very cheap, yet effective fix. Aside from about $15 worth of steel & new bolts, the only cost is the labor, but if you can do that yourself, its even cheaper.

My first recommendation is of course to try to get the block replaced if the dealership will do that (hint, don't mention this fix or this web site). But as a last resort, if all else fails, there is nothing wrong with doing it this way. If its you, or a tech who ends up doing this fix, I would be happy to answer any questions. There are several other members on here who have done this job too, so if they chime in, there will be no shortage of help and/or encouragement to get you through it.

Good luck

 

[FirstOrbit84]

hey guys, just an update:

I've posted a feeler thread to see if anyone wants the car as is:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=163605

Meanwhile, the dealership where I bought the car is not going to do anything for me because they say the damage had to have been caused by an accident (that they never told me about and didn't come up on carfax). On top of all that the towing company ripped the oil pan off when dropping the car off and now I've got another battle to fight.

So, I've also put in a claim to my car insurance to see if they'll cover this problem as a collision with road debris or potholes. I still have yet to get lawyers involved, but if anyone has any suggestions or if you're interested in giving this car a new home and some TLC, please let me know.

 

[LOWRANGO]

i would suggest getting receipts from the selling dealer of any work done during used car prep. also if you post the vin, i can tell you what warranty work was done and the dealer that did it. you may find who did the work based on that(maybe not) but it worth a try... who ever repaired the car incorrectly is responsible...

 

[FirstOrbit84]

...also if you post the vin, i can tell you what warranty work was done and the dealer that did it. you may find who did the work based on that(maybe not) but it worth a try... who ever repaired the car incorrectly is responsible...

VIN: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9BWBP61J624027851

I acquired the car in 07/05. Thanks for all your help so far.
[/FONT]

 

[LOWRANGO]

you have a pm...interesting first owner....

 

[CaptainKirk]

I've been following the post and hope you'll post the final outcome. It's amazing what some people will do to make a buck... not to mention putting others at risk in the process....

Good Luck...

 

[wny_pat]

interesting first owner....

Would love to hear about that one. Oh, Carfax currently has a class action law suit going on against them. But is nothing big. Still you might want to talk to the law firm sueing them. PM me for info if you desire it.

 

[TDI4US]

This thread has been enlightining and somewhat concerning.

I found this thread while researching a problem that I'm having with hard shifting of my 2003 Jetta when I started thinking it might have something to do with a bad motor mount when a strange noise and a "strange feeling" when in reverse.

I knew that the timing belt was replaced at 98K miles but this lead me to try and find out how well the job was done. I just called the shop "Atlantic Tire & Service" in Durham NC to see if they could tell me. They said that they used Timing Belt Kit 038 109 119 LVW to replace the timimg belt but they couldn't answer any specifics on if it included replacement motor mount bolts od tensioners or anything. Is anyone familiar with this kit and what it contains? Any recommendations on what my next steps should be so I don't end up with big problems?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks