Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

cosmic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Location
KY, USA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Silver Arrow
Hello all,

I finally got around to doing my brake fluid change this weekend. All in all, the job was pretty easy. Removing the wheels and getting the jetta up on jack stands took a good portion of my time. I understand that this may not be necessary, but I wanted to poke around and inspect everything.

I used a motive power bleeder to do the change. I confirmed dieseldorf's findings that this can be done without putting fluid in the bleeder. I just used a turkey baster to remove as much of the old fluid as possible from the the fluid resevoir, and then filled it with the new ATE blue fluid. My old fluid was amber.

This was the first time I have done a fluid change. Its not really that hard (I did it!) and needs to be done every two years.

My blow by blow of what was done is as follows:
1) Remove wheels and get car up on jack stands at all four corners.
2) Remove cap and sensor on fluid resevoir.
3) Use baster to remove fluid from resevoir.
4) Attach power bleeder to the fluid resevoir and pressurize it. (Do not exceed 14.5 psi! I went for about 10)
5)Connect drip tube to the right rear bleed valve and/or receptacle.
6) Open bleed valve with 11mm wrench and bleed till only new fluid is present in the fluid stream
(Bear in mind you need to keep an eye on the fluid level in the resevoir as well, insuring it does not go blow the MIN marking)
7) Close valve and then repeat on the LR, RF, LF wheels, then on the clutch, watching the fluid level at the resevoir.
(If refilling, depressurize by unscrewing the cap on the bleeder, NOT on the resevoir cap!)

Right rear brakes (arrows point to the bleeder screws)


Left rear brakes (notice the pads are toasted!)


Right front brakes


Left front brakes


Clutch bleed screw (yellow arrow points to bleed screw)



Motive bleeder connected to resevoir


View of resevoir (NOTE the markings for min and max are to the right of the text and obscured in this pic)


Ready to bleed the right rear


Bleeding out the amber fluid (note the rust bits which I think came from the screw area as they were only present after opening it up)



Only blue fluid now...


Bleeding left rear, amber fluid coming out...


Blue fluid begins to show as a fine line in the center of the stream


Blue fluid is now about half the stream



So that is it. I found I had to refill the resevoir after each bleed to keep the level where it needed to be.

I also found that my rear brakes are toasted, but the fronts are fine. I am suspecting the emergency brake cable tension might be to blame. Any other ideas?

Test driving proved the job successful. The brakes seem more responsive, but who knows how much of that assessment is just my mind telling me I did a good job.
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Hey can I make this a PDF article? For my page and maybe for freds? (and for everyone to download?)

Nice write up and pictures . . . using Blue fluid definately makes it easier!
 

DeafBug

Gone but Never Forgotten: Requiescat In Pace
Joined
Sep 22, 2000
Location
Twin Cities in MN
TDI
2001 NB
Nice write up. I suppose the instructions are similar to any vehicle? I need to do my wife's Camry.

How did you get to keep the floor so clean?
 

twojettas

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Location
MN
TDI
99.5 Jetta, Atlantic Blue; 85 Jetta TD, Dark Red
Hey can I make this a PDF article? For my page and maybe for freds? (and for everyone to download?)
Here is the post in .pdf format. Brake Fluid Change .pdf

Thanks cosmic for the great post! I will probably use it this weekend. I converted it to pdf for you and others.

Brandon
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
I also found that my rear brakes are toasted, but the fronts are fine. I am suspecting the emergency brake cable tension might be to blame. Any other ideas?

Test driving proved the job successful. The brakes seem more responsive, but who knows how much of that assessment is just my mind telling me I did a good job.
Cosmic, nice camera work.

I pressurized to 18 psi the last time I did a MkIV and had good luck with that.

The rear pads in these cars are very soft (there is a TSB on rear brake problems) so I doubt there is anything abnormal going on. How many miles on your car?

I think the bleeding process does produce a firmer pedal - - it may not be your imagination.

Good job


<font color="red"> Oh, one other item: MOGolf reports that 2001.5 cars and newer use a non-traditional pattern meaning it is reverse of the pattern most of us are accustomed to. Start at the nearest (clutch) and finish at the farthest point (RR).</font>
 

golfstream

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Location
Balmer, Hon
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Golf, 2000, Black
cosmic,

Good job! Your rear pads are toast because they're softer, smaller, and work harder than most rear brakes. There is probably nothing wrong with your parking brake. For better or worse, VW designed them that way.

Now, swap those pads out with new ones before your rotors are ruined. It's another easy job as long as you have the caliper wind-back tool.

-Mel
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
Very nice post. I have printed off the .pdf file for next spring on my car.

Now to be just a little anal: what about the brake fluid left in the caliper? Seems somebody spoke of fully compressing the pistons to remove the fluid.
 

GeWilli

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Location
lost to new england
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none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Oh, one other item: MOGolf reports that 2001.5 cars and newer get use a non-traditional pattern meaning it is reverse of the pattern most of us are accustomed to. Start at the nearest (clutch) and finish at the farthest point (RR).
Different schools of thought have this on all cars. I'm thinking it doesn't really matter much. But it might matter a little how the hydraulic lines are routed. . . but as long as you get clean clear/blue fluid out the bleeders then you've done it right. . . .

thanks twojetta's saves me a touch of time . . . i'll post that link up on my page assuming it's okay? If not lemme know and I'll pull it.
 

cosmic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Location
KY, USA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Silver Arrow
Thanks for the responses. I am happy to give something back.


GeWilli - Certainly Geoff you can make it into a pdf, although it looks like twojettas beat ya to it. I finally used your ventectomy pics last night, to yank my vent button.

Dieseldorf - I noted that Bentleys said to NOT exceed 14.5 psi (1 bar) so I stuck to that rule. Things might work a bit faster with higher pressure, but it was a nice day.
Thanks for the info on the rear brakes being softer. There are just under 45K miles on the car. Regarding the pattern, once again, bentleys said RR,LR,RF,LF. I actually ended up doing RR,LR,LF,RF then clutch. I guess I just got going around the car...
My Jetta is an early 2001.

Gulfstream - new pads and rotors for the rear are on the way from Impex. I was already grinding on the rotors just a hair, and Impex has rear rotors on sale, 2 for $40.

Thanks to all and feel free to use the info and these pics as you please.
 

dieseldorf

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Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
cosmic, for the sake of everyones' comprehension, perhaps you can add an explanation about alternating the brake fluids every other year. Some may not grasp that.

........
........



<font color="red"> Brake fluid loves water:</font>



"Brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means, it absorbs water over time. Under extreme loads, steam bubbles form in the brake system, which causes the brake pedal to go to the floor when braking. The threat of brake failure is very real. Only regular replacement with, say, Original ATE brake fluid will ensure that the brake system is fully functional in all driving situations."

"ATE Super Blue Racing and ATE TYP 200 are the same brake fluid in two different colors (blue and amber, respectively). BMW recommends this brake fluid for their street cars because it, like Castrol LMA, absorbs moisture very slowly. The advantage over LMA is that ATE has a much better wet boiling point. You can put this stuff in your car and forget about it for a long time. An excellent choice for a weekend track car which also sees regular street duty."
 

MITBeta

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Feb 24, 2001
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Boston's Metro South-West
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2001 Jetta TDI, 2004 Sprinter CDI Passenger (Mid/High), former: 1996 Passat TDI Variant
1) Remove wheels and get car up on jack stands at all four corners.
I bled my brakes this weekend (using Motive) and didn't need to remove the wheels. For the fronts, I turned the wheels full right and then full left. The rears can easily be reached by laying on the ground.

This could save someone a little time and effort.

Nice pics (I took some too, which I'll get around to posting eventually) and write up...
 

MITBeta

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Joined
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Location
Boston's Metro South-West
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2001 Jetta TDI, 2004 Sprinter CDI Passenger (Mid/High), former: 1996 Passat TDI Variant
Here's a couple of photos to augment those above, but showing the job done with the wheels on:

Left front:


Rear right:


Rear left:
 

GeWilli

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lost to new england
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MITBeta,

thats how I did our Volvo's brakes (bleeding). Backed the rear wheels up on a set of rhino ramps to get easier access (that volvo sits lower/as low as the Golf). However I like the idea of taking the tires off . . . gives you a good chance to clean the rims and to inspect the brake condition. And if ya wanna rotate the tires at the same time . . .

I included a link to this page below the PDF created here:
http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/willi1gl/TDIpage.htm
So that maybe folks will check this out for the alternatives and all.

One question cosmic. Did you put the new brake fluid INSIDE the Motive bleeder or did you use the motive bleeder to push air into the brake fluid resevoir?
 

cosmic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Location
KY, USA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Silver Arrow
One question cosmic. Did you put the new brake fluid INSIDE the Motive bleeder or did you use the motive bleeder to push air into the brake fluid resevoir?
I used the motive bleeder to push air, i.e. no fluid in the motive bleeder. In retrospect, I could have put fluid in the bleeder, as I used virtually all of the can to do the whole change. If I had though, I still would have had to clean the bleeder out.
 

jettajim

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near Houston
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'14 Golf 6-spd, '12 Passat gasser:(
Nice write-up. You should have flushed the clutch res. while you were at it--kill 2 birds with the same messy stone
.
 

michTDI

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Sep 11, 2000
Location
Charlotte, MI, USA
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2003 Jetta and 2015 GSW MT
I noticed that in the PDF version some of the captions don't match up with the correct pictures. For example it talks about blue fluid on pictures that are the amber etc. Someone should fix it........FYI
 

dieseldorf

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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
michTDI, cool stuff. I have also seen the reqd 45MM cap in anodized AL from The Ultimate Garage in NY. They get $30 for the cap + fitting pictured in the foreground:



...if you have an air compressor with a regulator that can be trusted, this would be an excellent alternative to the Motive.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
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Versailles, Kentucky
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2015 Audi Q5 TDI, 2000 New Beetle
Question out of ignorance.
I have a pressure bleeding kit with assorted caps that I used with my MGB. This kit has a chuck that connects to the tire valve. Yes, I know this is higher working pressure than what this thread talks about. Will this work with the VW system, and will the higher pressure cause harm? And, yes, my Jetta is an A3 and I know I am on the wrong thread. Thanks in advance.
 

dieseldorf

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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
I have a pressure bleeding kit with assorted caps that I used with my MGB. This kit has a chuck that connects to the tire valve. Yes, I know this is higher working pressure than what this thread talks about. Will this work with the VW system, and will the higher pressure cause harm?
paramedic, it seems like an OK idea if you can regulate the pressure to less than 20psi. The cap on the brake fluid reservoir is 45mm and is common.
 

MITBeta

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Joined
Feb 24, 2001
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Boston's Metro South-West
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2001 Jetta TDI, 2004 Sprinter CDI Passenger (Mid/High), former: 1996 Passat TDI Variant
GeWilli: It didn't occur to me to rotate the tires at the same time (since it's not due), but perhaps next spring I'll do the brake flush during the tire rotation...

For the record, I put the fluid in the Motive...
 

GeWilli

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Joined
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lost to new england
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I have a pressure bleeding kit with assorted caps that I used with my MGB. This kit has a chuck that connects to the tire valve. Yes, I know this is higher working pressure than what this thread talks about. Will this work with the VW system, and will the higher pressure cause harm?
paramedic, it seems like an OK idea if you can regulate the pressure to less than 20psi. The cap on the brake fluid reservoir is 45mm and is common.
The bleeder kits that I see (from ipdUSA.com for example) say use a low pressure source specifically spare tire and to keep the pressure under 20 psi.


like this one:
http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsList.aspx?subSubCategoryID=13


on sale for $24 - sure not quite as "slick" as the motive - but getting a spare tire to 20 PSI is pretty easy and getting back up to the "proper inflation" is easy too, or use a winter/summer tire (i've got a few sets of those in the garage).
 

dieseldorf

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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
One problem that comes to mind when using a tire or the compressor as the source of air pressure: Moisture


With either of these two methods, there is a fair chance of introducing moisture/condensation directly into the fresh brake fluid.
 

paramedick

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GeWilli, that is the very kit I have. Dieseldorf, noted, but never had a problem when I used it on the MGs. Thanks to all.
 

GeWilli

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paramedick, cool - mind checkin why your sig file leaves that giant blank space?

I was eyeballin that kit - I'll try doing my brakes with the Mity-vac (maybe) or see if zanzabar might let me use his Motive this summer when its time to do mine.
 

pc

Well-known member
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Apr 6, 2000
Location
New Jersey, USA
TDI
2000
Hey TDI-ers...
Aprox. how many oz/ltr of "ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid" are need to complete the brake system flush ?

tkx
-pc
 

ruking

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San Jose area, CA
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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Hey TDI-ers...
Aprox. how many oz/ltr of "ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid" are need to complete the brake system flush ?

tkx
-pc
The last time I did a way dirty bleeding, I used roughly 28 oz/32oz can. Having a spare unopened can might be a good back up.
 

schnabba

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wake forest, nc, usa
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I was eyeballin that kit - I'll try doing my brakes with the Mity-vac (maybe) or see if zanzabar might let me use his Motive this summer when its time to do mine.
I did mine with a mityvac - it's a pain! There must be some safety valve or something, because you put 20-25" mercury on it, and it pulls the fluid SLOW. I had to pump the pedal to get it to release fluid faster.

You also have to use teflon tape to seal the threads so they don't leak air.

Other cars don't do this - so I wonder if there is some kind of a valve or something in the caliper that prevents you from pulling fluid easily?
 
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