Mk6 Jetta: Hard Start / No Start - Intercooler icing discussion in here!

[xflowgolf]

Ugh. Add me to the camp. 2011 Golf TDI ~75K miles. First winter owning the car. Had exactly as others here have described:

Went to leave for work yesterday morning and the engine turned over twice and stopped. Engine was hydro-locked. Turned key again and it turned a fraction and stopped. Yep.....hydro-locked.

After 10 minutes or so I tried the Golf once more and it turned over and fired then died. Tried it again while holding throttle down. Ran like total sh*t for a couple minutes, cleared up and drove to work fine.

Temp outside was ~7F on my drive home the night before (75 miles), and parked in garage overnight at ~40F.

Nearly the same thing happened again today. Drove home last night ~8F, 40F in garage at morning start attempt. It didn't actually hydrolock today though, just cranked slow and ran like **** for awhile.

Called the dealer, they said, yeah, we've been seeing that alot. Knowledgeable service advisor, knew of the TSB, knew of icing/condensation issues, but said no luck on getting it done unless I wanted to pay $1,100 out of pocket. No coverage out of warranty. Called VW, they said... nope.

 

[wbclassics]

Called the dealer, they said, yeah, we've been seeing that alot. Knowledgeable service advisor, knew of the TSB, knew of icing/condensation issues, but said no luck on getting it done unless I wanted to pay $1,100 out of pocket. No coverage out of warranty. Called VW, they said... nope.

Time to call a lawyer. You might have to pay $150-$200 for a sternly worded letter, but it'll probably get you the fix.

The fact that a TSB exists, is acknowledgement of the flaw from the manufacturer. The flaw isn't really related to mileage or age of the vehicle either, this is an inherent design flaw.

Damaging your engine is going to cost you more than $1100...

We got our TDI back from the dealer with the new revised charge cooler kit. It is about 0degF outside right now, and there were no issues yesterday evening or through today. But then again there probably isn't enough accumulated condensate at this point to cause the issue. It very well may not happen at all again this winter.

 

[krheude]

Had the second intercooler issue in 700 miles (8 days) today. Really hope this isn't going to become a common problem because I don't want to have to jack the car up every 700 miles just to drain water out of the cooler. This is ridiculous! Going to try the foam to see if it makes any difference. Anyone had "back to back" issues this quickly?

 

[Mark6]

2014 Hydro-lock?

Greetings folks,
I've been mostly lurking on the site for a few years with a 91 NA diesel, a 98 TDI, and started lurking in earnest before/after buying a 2014 Jetta TDI.
All was well for a few (summer) months, and when I got my previous daily driver back on the road (95 E300 Diesel), I parked the Jetta for a month, a few days after the 10,000 mile service.
Moderately cold (40s) when I parked it, and 30s when I tried to start it a month later.
Engine started immediately, then died. Subsequent attempt at restart "felt" like hydro lock, it engaged the starter, turned over halfway and stopped cold. Local VW dealer had previously assured me that the 2014s came with the "fix" to the intercooler icing issue, so I tried again.. Same thing.
Didn't have time to screw with it, fired up the Benz and kept going.
Tried later that day, and it spun over, started, and belched unburned diesel, stunk to high hell and took a few minutes to clear up. Warmed it up, drove a few miles and parked it. No CEL, no codes, no ideas.
Called VW and they assured me it couldn't be the intercooler icing issue.
Didn't drive it for a few weeks, and when I started it again, it was in the 20s. Fired right up, but was initially unresponsive to throttle input, sounded like it was only running on 2 cylinders and stank for a minute before clearing up.
I've been a Mercedes / VW / BMW dealer tech, and all things foreign tech through the 70s, and '80s, and have kept active in the trade as a hobby (addiction) since.. buying the Jetta so I wouldn't have to wrench on it. Turns out my '95 E300D with 270k is more reliable.
So, was the problem solved for the 2014s and I'm barking up the wrong tree, or what?
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[kjclow]

As far as others on here have posted, it doesn't sound like the "fix" was implemented into new car production. So it doesn't really matter if you have an 09-14 Jetta, Golf, or Sportswagen, you may run into the intercooler icing issue.

The 2015 cars have a different engine and setup, so for them it's been fixed.

 

[JASONP]

As far as others on here have posted, it doesn't sound like the "fix" was implemented into new car production. So it doesn't really matter if you have an 09-14 Jetta, Golf, or Sportswagen, you may run into the intercooler icing issue.

The 2015 cars have a different engine and setup, so for them it's been fixed.

No it was not,I just dumped a 13 Jetta for that very reason after it left me stranded in a parking lot after work at 6:30 am.
Dealer of course found no signs of water or sludge in the pressure piping .

I think I saw here somewhere only the Passats got the upgrade but as usual I could be wrong

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[opelgt21]

I though I would share my I/C icing story for my mk6 Jetta.

Details:
I purchased my car in mid-Feb 2014 and it performed flawlessly the winter of 2014.

I started my car on Monday Jan 5 (OAT +5F) let it idle for a minute and drove 35 mi to work on the highway (rpm >2500), I don't have a temp gage, but my car did not seem to warm up like normal. (Usually its warm after about 3 mi, and hot after 10-15).

After work (+8hrs later) I started my car (OAT +15F), letting it idle for a minute then drove out of the parking garage (~100') and my car lost power, and had a flashing glow plug light, I believe this was limp mode. I pulled into a parking lot, let my car idle for a few minutes and there was no change. I shut the car off, waited a minute or two, and restarted the engine, appeared to run fine and I continued my drive home. I pulled my VAGCOM codes and saw that P0299, low boost pressure, I attempted to get my car into the dealer, but they were too busy. I did not drive my car Tuesday, but drove it to and from work Wednesday without a problem. On Thursday morning I started my car (-5F), it idled for less than a minute and then died. It continued to turn over, but would not start. I pulled the codes again (did not clear them from earlier in the week) and saw that I had a new fault P0087, low fuel pressure.

I had my car towed to the dealer (VW roadside is slow, but free) and did not hear anything from the dealer until Friday afternoon. I was told that ice was discovered in my intercooler and that it had been replaced and the cold weather kit was installed.

I didn't even see this post about I/C icing until after my car wouldn't start or I probably would have had my car towed to the dealership right away (Monday) after the car lost power. I am also happy I didn't have to ask (beg) the dealer to install the TSB cold weather kit (or pay for it). I just wonder why I had trouble this winter, but no trouble last winter with similar temperatures. I guess the lesson is that if you have any trouble with your engine, go to the dealer and have the I/C inspected (or DIY).

 

[VeeDubTDI]

For those of you interested in a potential permanent solution, see this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560

 

[dirtysouthjacket]

Ugh. Add me to the camp. 2011 Golf TDI ~75K miles. First winter owning the car. Had exactly as others here have described:

Went to leave for work yesterday morning and the engine turned over twice and stopped. Engine was hydro-locked. Turned key again and it turned a fraction and stopped. Yep.....hydro-locked.

After 10 minutes or so I tried the Golf once more and it turned over and fired then died. Tried it again while holding throttle down. Ran like total sh*t for a couple minutes, cleared up and drove to work fine.

Temp outside was ~7F on my drive home the night before (75 miles), and parked in garage overnight at ~40F.

Nearly the same thing happened again today. Drove home last night ~8F, 40F in garage at morning start attempt. It didn't actually hydrolock today though, just cranked slow and ran like **** for awhile.

Called the dealer, they said, yeah, we've been seeing that alot. Knowledgeable service advisor, knew of the TSB, knew of icing/condensation issues, but said no luck on getting it done unless I wanted to pay $1,100 out of pocket. No coverage out of warranty. Called VW, they said... nope.

Just keep hammering them at the regional VW of America. That's what I had to do. Just be polite and stern. Keep asking for a higher up. They will eventually cover it.

 

[Mugs]

Well had mine in to the dealer after a start and very rough idle about a month and a half ago and just last week a start and an immediate stall, but the engine started next try. I didn't put two and two together until I discovered this thread. Both times it occured right when the weather was changing from a warm spell to much cooler weather although I did notice a miss of sorts during wet weather this fall after starting my car in the afternoon at work which could be unrelated not sure though.

Unfortunately(as I had no codes) they removed the IC hose and it was dry and clean (and more or less I was out of luck)and when I pressed the issue, and mentioned the damage enough water could do to the engine I was told kits get put on if ice is found in the IC and those fixed usually didn't start anyways. So needless to say I'm alittle ticked that on a car with just over 20000km a known "fix" wasn't appiled and that this particular dealer would not address the very good chance excessive water may be going through the engine due to a design flaw.

Next step is calling VW Canada as well as sending a letter to them and my dealer as well making sure they know I tried to address the matter resonably and let it be known if it happens again I will be getting the vehicle towed to the dealership, and would be more inclined to get the glow plugs inspected and engine compression checked as well as the IC kit installed on their dime. as I don't think thats unreasonable at all.

Am I right, and is there anything else those more informed and mechanical than myself would like to add?

 

[Samcar222]

All Passats with the 2.0 CR TDI motor are exempt from this issue due to the air to water intercooler. *New* EA288 powered Beetle, Jetta and Golf/future Golf Sportwagen (MK7) are also exempt due to the new EA288 motor, which also sports an air to water intercooler.

CJAA engines 2010-~2014 do not come with any intercooler fix from the factory, it is a TSB installed on a case by case basis. Your dealer either lied or is unaware. Grill blocking as well as the hole thread above ^ are ways to combat moisture freezing within the intercooler and causing issues when thawing.

 

[Mugs]

Just called Volkswagon Canada - they stated no worries car would probably be under warranty if anything happened, and they can only go by what the dealer found. I mentioned this forum and that the trouble seemed to be not specific to a certain VIN. His response was to maybe trust the dealer and it's mechanics rather than a forum. I then mentioned the video of someone draining water from the hose, drilling small holes in the intercooler line to remedy the problem and the number of people complaining about the issue which I think is a design flaw.

He said they are aware of the issue....... so if your having similar problems as mentioned in this thread call VW and complain... I think I will still write a letter and send it registered to both my dealer and VW Canada.

 

[kjclow]

The 2015 Passat is also powered by the EA288 engine with the air to liquid intercooler.

 

[Samcar222]

The 2015 Passat is also powered by the EA288 engine with the air to liquid intercooler.

Thanks, was wondering if the Passat switched from CKRA to EA288.

 

[nosparkplugs88]

Another iced up 2014 TDI...well thawed out now issue

Hello all,
I've been searching and researching on this great site since last summer (2014). I grew up driving a '02 jetta 2.0 manual gasser-great car! So i finally was able to purchase a new car and the TDI seemed to fit the bill for me. Long story short i bought a new '14 TDI Premium manual in August of 2014 and all was great until it got cold. I experianced, like many others, a very hard start (3 very violent turn of the key events)on an above freezing afternoon after a below freezing morning drive in to work. Well i went straight to the dealer after this with no real luck (no idea of the intercooler issue at this time). i was told without codes there wasn't anything they could do, but they were nice. Now i drive a lot (almost 22000 now since august). The fourth time it happened i was able to take a video with my phone of the attempted starts so i had some evidence and on Friday the 13th it went on a flat bed to the dealer! So now i wait, also by the way...i was just in for my 20000 service last week and the battery light came on a couple of days previous to the visit. After over six hours at the dealer after work i got a new alternator due to an improperly installed harness that caused wires to break. Just another story to contribute i guess. I hate to say it because i love my car but i have almost no faith in it anymore, its been a hell of a first car. The dealer has taken the intiative to tell me that a replacement car may be in my future. Sorry for the long post.
-Todd

 

[Mugs]

Changeable - hard start

We have had about a week of changeable weather - cold nights and warm days. I walked out to go to the store tonight and had a hard start, I removed my grill covers when it started getting warm about a week or so ago. Next year I'll be keeping them on longer.

In another thread I mentioned a 2 inch hose not connected to the air box below the main intake pipe, which I connected, about a week ago as well.I removed the battery to run an amp power cable, and noticed the hose laying over the battery hold down clamp. The hose did have no mechanical fastening at either end.

What follows is speculation but if the hose that wasn't connected feeds warm air to the air box, could it be possible that the dealership disconnected the 2 inch hose to prevent warm moist air from being added directly to the system? I did address the hard start issue in December but I had no codes and they found no water in the IC pipe so no fix, but I do wonder if the pipe just came off or was disconnected as a remedy to save complaints and the bottom line? Like I said it's speculation on my part but it might be worth it if those affected by a hard start and not receiving the cold weather kit check and see if the hose below the main intake line is connected or not. Even then it could be a coincidence but you never know integrity certainly seems to be lax when it comes to business anymore .

I wish I would have noticed the pipe after my hard start which would have solved my question.

I plan on bringing to their attention another hard start as I have a 30 k service this Sat. I have to decide to ask if they disconnected the hose as a cheap fix.

 

[MagnaRGP]

Update #2. - I guess I have the new intercooler. Dealer pulled P0401 - Insufficient flow on the EGR and replaced it under warranty. Conditions are good for icing to form tonight and I have to drive, so we'll see.

^^ Dec ^^

Update #3 -- Sent my car went in this morning on a flatbed (36,500 km) as I couldn't start it this morning. I videoed several attempts including one where the starter wouldn't turn the engine.

I've got the popcorn made, and am anxiously watching to see what happens..

 

[MagnaRGP]

Update #4 -- Just heard back from the Dealer...Intercooler plumbing was full of water and replaced under warranty. I'm told the new one is redesigned, so we shall see. However, good to see that not all dealerships run away from the problem

 

[opelgt21]

Anybody else kept track of there mileage before and after the TSB?

The "optional" IC TSB cost my car 1.5mpg average, translates into about $5/mo. This doesn't sound like a lot, until you think about it over a period of say the 10 years I am planning to drive the car for, then its up to $575. I didn't think the TSB updated software, but I am guessing I am down about 10HP around 1800 rpm. Anyone else experience this?

 

[BuzzKen]

That latest software update hurt everybody's mileage a bit on average. The next one will really hurt.

 

[NYC-TDI]

Anybody else kept track of there mileage before and after the TSB?

The "optional" IC TSB cost my car 1.5mpg average, translates into about $5/mo. This doesn't sound like a lot, until you think about it over a period of say the 10 years I am planning to drive the car for, then its up to $575. I didn't think the TSB updated software, but I am guessing I am down about 10HP around 1800 rpm. Anyone else experience this?

I no longer own the car but when I had the new intercooler installed on my 2010 Golf I saw a similar loss of MPGs. Others have reported similar results as well.

 

[cincin]

2012 jetta tdi, in chicago (biodiesel blend everywhere), the last month the car has been slow to start, just in the mornings, this morning it started and stalled, pretty quickly...after three attempts it started and drove fine.

I park indoor where the temp is around 55-60 degrees...

Any suggestions on whether or not its this icing issue or something else?

 

[kjclow]

It could be the battery. As of yesterday, I am on my second in the JSW. They seem to last about 4 years.

 

[cincin]

battery puts out 14 when car is on and 12.8 when its off...

 

[wbclassics]

Jan 2015 my TDI failed to start with the original spec intercooler. Dealer installed the revised part that was supposed to cure this.

Jan 6th 2016 my TDI failed to start with the corrected / improved setup. Not pleased at all. And you can only vote once in the poll... not when you get it fixed and have it happen again.

 

[TDILI]

Failed intercooler

First off I'm a newbie here and female. I've owned my pre certified tdi Jetta for 1.5 yrs. Bought it with 28k mi in California. Moved to NY in March and shortly thereafter motor was visibly shaking more than normal, sluggish on the acceleration, vibration in seat and steering and louder. It really bummed me out. Took it to dealer 5 times and the service manager wouldn't even investigate without a code? Basically he treated me like I was crazy. So I paid out of pocket and they found a bad pressure retention valve and replaced it but it didn't fix the problem which only I seem to notice. Fast forward 24 days driving down road and car just dies. Tow it to dealer and they report bad intercooler. Now I'm worried of deeper internal damage. Can I request a diagnostic print out report for a test run after new intercooler is installed? And also is ths thermaldynamic phenomenon associated with the emissions scandal. Any input appreciated.

 

[bennybmn]

I doubt it's related to the emissions thing... Other than me waiting for an outcome of the whole thing before dumping money into the car! Out of curiosity, which dealer were you dealing with? LI here too.

 

[TDILI]

intercooler failed and more.....

I was wondering if this thermodynamic phenomenon is related to the emissions scandal and not simply a defective part. If the vehicles are spewing up to 35% more Nox than thought would that cause intercooler to fail?
My Jetta died while I was driving it this week. They replaced the intercooler but said they suspect something is still wrong and are continuing to troubleshoot.
I had brought the car in five times in the last 6 months because of rough running, loss of some power, engine vibration, and tach bouncing.
They wouldn't even look at it because there were no codes. Finally I paid them to investigate and they discovered a bad pressure retention valve but that didn't fix problem. The service manager treated me like I was crazy and refused to look at it a week before it died because he assured me nothing was wrong.
Im new to this forum, not very savvy about motors and am female.
Any input appreciated as I continue to deal with VW waiting for vehicle repairs.

 

[TDILI]

Thanks Benny. Took me forever to figure out how to find my post and so I posted twice. Riverhead VW.

 

[Campbellonh]

Don't let your gender deter you from learning all you can about your car. There are a few chauvinists on this forum too, but most are willing to help you learn. I have learned enough now about my older Passat that I do all my maintenance myself, and only let a few trusted mechanics touch it. On my husband's Jetta, we've had the intercooler icing thing. If that is the problem, there is a technical service bulletin out about it that installs a kit that is supposed to help. We've had it fail even after the kit was installed. If that is your problem, when it dies, it will behave similar to a dead battery. The first time it happened for us, that is what we thought it was. Fortunately for us, our local dealer was actually very helpful. It may help that we are in a rural area, and the dealer lives in our small town too, and works hard to keep a good reputation for his service department. It sounds like the dealership you are going to are not good to their customers. And if they won't look at it without a code that indicates that they don't know what they are doing. If possible, find someone else. There may be some good local gurus you can turn to. Check the "trusted TDI mechanics list under the TDI 101 section of this forum. Those guys are usually willing to talk to you like you have a brain and if you are willing to learn, they are willing to teach.