Mk6 Jetta: Hard Start / No Start - Intercooler icing discussion in here!

[BuzzKen]

A typical Saturday morning.....

 

[Hiphead]

IC Club

Seems like I experienced similar symptoms with my 2009 Jetta this morning.

Parked the car Friday after work in below 0 temperatures and was not used again until Monday morning.

Of course over the weekend temperatures warmed considerably.

This morning's first attempt starting car would barely turn over. Thought the battery might be dead. Weird.

Popped the hood and of course everything looks ok.

Attempted a second start and now engine was somewhat turning over.

Eventually fired but running considerably rough.

Rough condition improved with a slightly higher RPM around 1000 and eventually back to 850.

Drover the car to work 90 KMS with no warning lights and normal operating conditions.

My Jetta has 83,000 KMS. Is it even worthwhile to call dealership?

Is the best solution to install foam in the grill to prevent icing?

 

[Dozenspeed]

Maybe try it like mine, one tube for each space instead of cupped around the horizontal slats. With some recess cut into them to snug the inner vertical slats (5 I think on mine) they seal real nice and survive a full-on automatic wash and crosswinds. If you cut too deep/install&uninstall them too much too carelessly they will lose their integrity, but they are so cheap I'm just buying a fresh pack per season. I get better at custom trimming and fitting them each year!

Not only does this significantly reduce my IC issues, but it keeps the fuel economy up in winter. I monitor all those goodies in the ECU with the ol Torque app which illustrates the differences of fuel burn against different temps and rpm levels at "idle" (of which I count 5 on mine, 800, 830, 890, 950 and 1000)

I leave the upper grille open and coolant temps run in same terrirtory as summer, with or without A/C. I like them from ~190-207. No tubes= a good 8 degree drop on the high end and 30 degrees down to 160 if I end up idling long enough. She maintains 180 or better in single digits with tubes.

These are all farenheit numbers, of course.



So yes Hiphead, I for one am pretty freaking sold on this mandatory-for-me...uh "mod"


EDIT FOR DICLAIMER: My car for all intents and purposes has basically averaged ~180 miles a day for the last some-odd 1350 days in a row. YRMV?

 

[MAXecutive]

Maybe try it like mine, one tube for each space instead of cupped around the horizontal slats. With some recess cut into them to snug the inner vertical slats (5 I think on mine) they seal real nice and survive a full-on automatic wash and crosswinds. If you cut too deep/install&uninstall them too much too carelessly they will lose their integrity, but they are so cheap I'm just buying a fresh pack per season. I get better at custom trimming and fitting them each year!

Not only does this significantly reduce my IC issues, but it keeps the fuel economy up in winter. I monitor all those goodies in the ECU with the ol Torque app which illustrates the differences of fuel burn against different temps and rpm levels at "idle" (of which I count 5 on mine, 800, 830, 890, 950 and 1000)

I leave the upper grille open and coolant temps run in same terrirtory as summer, with or without A/C. I like them from ~190-207. No tubes= a good 8 degree drop on the high end and 30 degrees down to 160 if I end up idling long enough. She maintains 180 or better in single digits with tubes.

These are all farenheit numbers, of course.



So yes Hiphead, I for one am pretty freaking sold on this mandatory-for-me...uh "mod"


EDIT FOR DICLAIMER: My car for all intents and purposes has basically averaged ~180 miles a day for the last some-odd 1350 days in a row. YRMV?

The more I see that picture, the more that look grows on me. I was thinking of getting a hybrid grille since it partially blocks the top compared to the stock grille. So what you're saying is that the top grille doesn't really matter. The bottom in extreme cold especially when idling long is where you will gain the most improvement.

 

[Goodtian]

I live in Montreal, Canada, we have very cold temp in winter sometime getting to -40F. I have a A6 2012 Jetta tdi and I have had a lot of problem with icing in intercooler.

I had no problem to convince the dealer, the intercooler pipe were full of oily/water mix so they install me the winter intercooler kit. This did not change anything, i still had trouble with the car, so the install the second patch call Hose with thermostat 7C. I was hoping this to solve the problem.

Last week we had weather in the low 20F and the car did not stop but i had no power even by pressing the gas pedal to the flor and the car hesitate a lot, lots of vapor from the exhaust and water coming out the exhaust like crazy.

I have an appointment at the dealer thursday to change the oil and look in the pipe to see if water is present. I will try these insulating hose, maybe this can help. I love this car so much, but this IC problem is really a pain!

 

[Texan1983]

Think I might have the issue in a '14...

detailed it in a heated bay after sitting outside in 10* weather. Sat inside for a few hours, went to start it to pull it outside and it ran real rough for about 10 seconds...

go to start is this morning and it was much harder to start ran rough for a bit and then the flashing glow plug light comes on. Drive it home with NO power, couldn't even think about going into 6th gear and couldn't keep the speed limit on hills...

off to the dealer... we shall see...

 

[MagnaRGP]

Count me in as a likely new member of the icing club...had my car run like crap yesterday with the sudden warm-up in Southwestern Ontario. Got to the bottom of my driveway and as I went to pull away, she stalled out. With someone now bearing down on me, I cranked her over and it started, stumbled and stalled again. Fortunately the clown who was bearing down on me finally noticed my 4-ways and slowed down.

I cranked it again (no hydrolock) and she fired up, and ran like hell for about 45 seconds with little power. Then it cleared up and ran reasonably fine (probably me being over-sensitive).

Called the dealer today to report it and schedule in my 20,000km service, and was told that my 2014 should have come from the factory with the new intercooler. They said there is no bulletin on 2014's. True? I'll add to the poll when I know which intercooler is on my car.

They're still going to look at it and also apply the block-heater recall. Le sigh....

Update #1 - Car went in on Monday. I was told that it would be ready today, they're just waiting on the "piece to resolve the hesitation issue". I should be getting it back today. I guess this means that I either don't have the new intercooler or I'm getting one or the other of the "fixes" parts. Should be interesting to see what actually is done. I'm going to ask about any Bulletins that are issued on 2014s.

 

[MagnaRGP]

Update #1 - Car went in on Monday. I was told that it would be ready today, they're just waiting on the "piece to resolve the hesitation issue". I should be getting it back today. I guess this means that I either don't have the new intercooler or I'm getting one or the other of the "fixes" parts. Should be interesting to see what actually is done. I'm going to ask about any Bulletins that are issued on 2014s.

Update #2. - I guess I have the new intercooler. Dealer pulled P0401 - Insufficient flow on the EGR and replaced it under warranty. Conditions are good for icing to form tonight and I have to drive, so we'll see.

 

[BuzzKen]

Update #2. - I guess I have the new intercooler. Dealer pulled P0401 - Insufficient flow on the EGR and replaced it under warranty. Conditions are good for icing to form tonight and I have to drive, so we'll see.

EGR insufficient flow generally ends up as the dpf being cracked.

 

[Texan1983]

Got the car back. Intercooler replaced. Guess the 2014s didn't get revised intercooler?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Got the car back. Intercooler replaced. Guess the 2014s didn't get revised intercooler?

Nope. Nothing was done to the production line to address the intercooler issues until the new engine was introduced for the 2015 model year. It's pretty amazing that VW would let a problem like this go for five years of production...

 

[jsalzl]

Am i better off pulling the IC hoses and checking before i pay the $130 "diagnostic fee" if it's not the problem?

I'm about 95% certain I'm having this issue, and "the diagnostic fee" won't be covered unless they can make it repeat the problem, or the car has a stored code (which i'm nearly certain it doesn't).

below freezing outside (15 degree Fahrenheit) , wouldn't turn idle or stay running in the garage.

 

[ahfunaki]

Also believe I had this issue today after owning my 2013 for 3 months.

It's about 24F here in Ohio and I wen't to start my car and it cranked for about a second then the starter stopped. Sounded like the battery was dead.

Not knowing what I was dealing with I tried it again. Same thing.

Try it one more time and it starts to fire up and kinda spits and sputters then dies out.

And on the 4th try it starts up runs rough for probably 10 seconds or so then smooths out.

Doesn't seem to have thrown any codes or anything and it ran fine after I let it warm up for 10 minutes. So I don't think I caused any damage.

I didn't have time to scan through this whole thread but I have 48k miles on this car already and I'll be really annoyed if this isn't covered under the powertrain warranty. I'm going to try and call the dealership tomorrow if I get a chance.

 

[FVWVWF]

Also believe I had this issue today after owning my 2013 for 3 months.
It's about 24F here in Ohio and I wen't to start my car and it cranked for about a second then the starter stopped. Sounded like the battery was dead.
Not knowing what I was dealing with I tried it again. Same thing.
Try it one more time and it starts to fire up and kinda spits and sputters then dies out.
And on the 4th try it starts up runs rough for probably 10 seconds or so then smooths out.
Doesn't seem to have thrown any codes or anything and it ran fine after I let it warm up for 10 minutes. So I don't think I caused any damage.
I didn't have time to scan through this whole thread but I have 48k miles on this car already and I'll be really annoyed if this isn't covered under the powertrain warranty. I'm going to try and call the dealership tomorrow if I get a chance.

I had that once about 2 years ago. It ran rough after 2 or 3 tries, shaking the car for about 5-10 seconds then I stepped on the throttle once and it went smooth. I havent had any lights go on on the dashboard or anything. I think it was just water aka hydrolock. No issues since. Go get it checked out but when I am not sure if the dealer will tell you anything, they couldnt find nothing wrong with my car.

 

[1dieselsteve]

Ok my question is... I haven't had this issue yet, but I don't know if my car had any IC issues before. Would an aftermarket IC solve this issue, or would it still be the same. What about blocking the front grille with the foam tubing or getting a winter grill cover. Can anyone post pics on what and where the hoses are, so I can check if I have any build up with water or sludge.

 

[Samcar222]

The hose you'd check would be the passenger side (cold side) intercooler hose. Simply loosen the hose clamp, and pull the hose away from the intercooler, and let any moisture/sludge drain. Some oily goo is normal, water is the issue. I'd put a paper towel on a stick or something and scoop around the hose to get as much accumulation out.

... I'm reading your sig as I type this.. are you DPF less? I'm not too educated on stage this/that.. regardless, an egr and dpf delete makes this a non-issue. Grill blocks will then only help the engine warm up faster.

 

[krheude]

Got to deal with the intercooler issue for the first time since buying the car new in June of 2012 today. The car started, stumbled then died. Hit the key again and it did the same thing. Decided to take the other car and think about it. Came back, pulled the cooler hoses and poured about 8 oz of water total out of them. Equal amounts in each side. Started the car after draining the water and it sputtered a couple seconds then ran like normal. Took the water/sludge to the dealer to get documentation of the occurrence just in case. Guess I will be checking the intercooler hoses more often now. What a pain.

 

[wbclassics]

Well after nearly 33,000 miles on our 2013 and not having any issue last winter, I believe I had the intercooling icing issue strike this morning. It was 16degF overnight (-9degC), and the conditions must have been ripe for this to occur otherwise, as we've had cold nights like this before without problem (including days last January 2014 that didn't even get above the single digits for day time high temps).

Hard start and an immediate stall just a few seconds later. It was almost as if I didn't hold the key long enough in the start position before the engine wanted to catch. Tried again, and wouldn't even attempt to start. I didn't try a third time.

Car towed to the dealer this morning. Waiting for a confirmation back about the issue.

 

[R87]

Well after nearly 33,000 miles on our 2013 and not having any issue last winter, I believe I had the intercooling icing issue strike this morning. It was 16degF overnight (-9degC), and the conditions must have been ripe for this to occur otherwise, as we've had cold nights like this before without problem (including days last January 2014 that didn't even get above the single digits for day time high temps).

Hard start and an immediate stall just a few seconds later. It was almost as if I didn't hold the key long enough in the start position before the engine wanted to catch. Tried again, and wouldn't even attempt to start. I didn't try a third time.

Car towed to the dealer this morning. Waiting for a confirmation back about the issue.

Same here. Mine has about 28,000 miles. I'm in central Ohio and the temps haven't been too cold yet this year, but have been dipping into the 20's F the last couple of nights. Went out to start it yesterday about 1600 hours...temp was around 35F. Mine did exactly what you're saying yours did...hard start and run for about 1 second and died. A second crank attempt, nothing. A third...not even a crank. So, I stopped trying since I had a little knowledge of this issue beforehand (thankfully!) and had to wait until today to call VW roadside assistance and the dealer to get it in for diag.

The soonest they can look at it is Monday, so I guess we'll see what they say. So glad I am still under warranty...

 

[02PSDV8]

So frustrated right now. Ran into this issue for the first time last winter- dealer installed the "fix" under VW warrenty (car @65k miles). The car seemed to be fixed, or I didnt hit the right conditions for it to occur again until the other day. Car started, stumbled then stalled. Car cranked for 2-3 seconds or so but woundnt start. I waited another 2-3 mins, cranked it again and it fired up but ran like it was on 2 cyl until it finally cleared up. At first I thought it was gelled fuel (18F outside) that was until I expereinced the same issue again the next morning. (car was in heated garage) I pulled off the IC hose and found the same water/green mess like I did last year. So, what do I do now? I drive 140 miles a day and depend on this car. Seeing I have the VW 'fix' and it doesnt work, what are my options besides a trade? If I could be certain that I wouldnt damage anything I would just continue on as normal. What is everyone else doing in this scenario? Sigh......

 

[wbclassics]

Same here. Mine has about 28,000 miles. I'm in central Ohio and the temps haven't been too cold yet this year, but have been dipping into the 20's F the last couple of nights. Went out to start it yesterday about 1600 hours...temp was around 35F. Mine did exactly what you're saying yours did...hard start and run for about 1 second and died. A second crank attempt, nothing. A third...not even a crank. So, I stopped trying since I had a little knowledge of this issue beforehand (thankfully!) and had to wait until today to call VW roadside assistance and the dealer to get it in for diag.

The soonest they can look at it is Monday, so I guess we'll see what they say. So glad I am still under warranty...

Yes, I'm glad I'm still under warranty as well (just!).

Burdick VW just called and confirmed that it was an iced up intercooler. Of course they don't have the cold weather intake kit in stock, so they have to order it. I'll know more tomorrow.

 

[02PSDV8]

Yes, I'm glad I'm still under warranty as well (just!).

Burdick VW just called and confirmed that it was an iced up intercooler. Of course they don't have the cold weather intake kit in stock, so they have to order it. I'll know more tomorrow.

WB- I'm guessing the VW cold weather 'fix' isnt going to work for you- but hopefully it does. Mine didnt help- Also once they do install it, check the front bumper cover to make sure it lines up good and it installed correctly. (It has to be removed and most mechanics are such good body guys.

I plan on recording cold starts when I would expect to experience the issue and see what the dealer has to say.

Good luck.

 

[Dozenspeed]

So I gave this a shot today. I used 3/4" rubber type pip insulation from Home Depot. After doing the bottom I decided to try the top so I picked up a 1" size. I didn't like how it looked covering the entire grille with one piece so I only did the bottom half of it.

http://s125.photobucket.com/user/maxecutive/media/IMG_0841.jpg.html


http://s125.photobucket.com/user/maxecutive/media/IMG_0852.jpg.html

What about this guy? Has this been the ticket for him as it has been for me?

 

[Campbellonh]

Does anyone know if the 2015 models have the same intercooler design? Curious because we are now considering trading the 2010 Jetta in for a Passat. I understand the 2015 Passat engine is the same now as the other VWs, rather than its own thing. But I don't want it if it will have the same issue. Maybe I'll look for a leftover 2014. We had another stumble start this morning, just 3 weeks since the dealer "fixed it" again.

 

[Aztraveler]

2015 has Air to Water intercooler instead of the Air to Air Intercooler on earlier CR Jetta and Golf.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

None of the 2015 TDIs have this problem. 2012 - 2014 Passat TDIs also do not have this problem.

 

[R87]

Yes, I'm glad I'm still under warranty as well (just!).

Burdick VW just called and confirmed that it was an iced up intercooler. Of course they don't have the cold weather intake kit in stock, so they have to order it. I'll know more tomorrow.

Well the dealer just called. Said they could not replicate the issue of the car not starting...temp is about 20F today, and the car has been sitting for 3 days now. He said they do an update to the ECM, drive it for 3 miles, and then let it sit for 24 hours and try to start it again tomorrow. Then, if no issue, no further diag. We have a high of 20F and a low of 16F tonight, so I guess time will tell.

It's on VWoA's dime right now, so I suppose I don't care so much, as long I get my ride back soon

 

[kjclow]

Ask to make sure they are not parking it in the service garage. Could make a difference.

 

[jsalzl]

Getting the intercooler update installed under warranty. Brought in a bucket of goo that i drained out of the charge pipe and I filed a complaint with VWoA

 

[millerman61]

Well the dealer just called. Said they could not replicate the issue of the car not starting...temp is about 20F today, and the car has been sitting for 3 days now. He said they do an update to the ECM, drive it for 3 miles, and then let it sit for 24 hours and try to start it again tomorrow. Then, if no issue, no further diag. We have a high of 20F and a low of 16F tonight, so I guess time will tell.

It's on VWoA's dime right now, so I suppose I don't care so much, as long I get my ride back soon

The intercooler icing issue is really a thawing issue. It needs to be driven in temperatures below freezing to build the ice up, then it needs to go above freezing for it to change to water to be sucked into the engine when you attempt to start it later.

I seriously doubt driving it for just 3 miles is going to be enough to ice the intercooler enough create a problem