c4markee
Well-known member
Attention Mk6 Jetta owners! Moderator note and thread merger:
Due to the high volume of intercooler icing threads popping up with the cold weather, I'm creating a STICKY thread in this forum to contain all intercooler icing related discussions. This will make it easier to find information in the future, rather than have a dozen threads about similar issues.
Bear with me as I combine old threads in the Mk6 Jetta forum into this sticky thread. Some posts may seem out of sequence, but that's because multiple threads are being combined into one.
If you're looking for more information on intercooler icing and cold weather no-start related issues, please see (and contribute to) the following thread...
Main TDIClub intercooler icing thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
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ORIGINAL THREAD/PROBLEM SUMMARY:
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UPDATE 12/21/13
New TSB issued that includes all VWs with CBEA and CJAA engines (Audi A3 is unknown), including Beetle and Beetle Convertible. See attached PDF for complete TSB.
Intercooler kit changeover valve revised from 0C to 10C.
Current TSB in PDF format
-VeeDubTDI
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 01/18/12
GraniteRooster's Frozen Charge Air Cooler (Intercooler) FAQ / Problem Summary
In an attempt to provide to most relevant details to the forum in summary format, I have compiled the following brief of the issues. This is multifaceted problem whose unresolved issues and discussion runs much deeper than this summary - I'd encourage folks to read the thread in detail for best understanding. At 1900+ posts and counting, you'll need a cup of coffee/tea and comfy chair
Problem
When driving in winter conditions (below ~20-25°F), external airflow over the air-air intercooler (IC) is cold enough to cause internal ice buildup in the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Ice buildup may lead to a variety of operational difficulties including restricted intake, reduced power, LIMP mode, engine stumbling, melt water or ice ingestion, and catastrophic engine damage.
Affected Engines
All 2.0L CR TDI engines (CJAA/CBEA) installed in all 2009-2012 model year Jetta TDI, Jetta Sportwagen TDI, and Golf TDI vehicles. Vehicles in both US and Canada are affected.
Occurrence
Ice buildup occurs while driving in cold winter conditions, typically below ~20-25°F. Melt water and ice ingestion may be experienced on subsequent engine start if the car is allowed to thaw while parked (such as in a warm garage, or warm parking lot above freezing temperatures).
Causes
This is a thermodynamic phenomenon caused by condensation and subsequent freezing or direct vapor deposition of water vapor as the turbo-compressed charge air is cooled through the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Two main aspects of engine design contribute to the problem:
Ice
VW has issued Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. The kit may be installed by dealers on documented vehicles under original 36k warranty. Customers outside 36k warranty have often been denied installation under 60k powertrain warranty.
A (basically ineffective placebo) temporary solution implemented by VW involves removal of the forward facing cold air intake "snorkle" so that the airbox draws air from the engine bay, which allegedly may be warmer. In practice, TDIClub member testing has shown this modification to make insignificant changes to intake air temperatures, and is therefore ineffective.
What to Do - Frozen IC happened to me!
If the car won't start after one attempt, or stumbles and dies after an initial attempt, ***STOP!*** You have some decision making to do...
Further attempts to start the engine may (or may not) cause damage from minor to catastrophic. Depending on the amount of water in the intake and engine, damage may occur to pistons, connecting rods, glow plugs, injectors, head gaskets, etc. due to hydraulic lock. There is also risk of starter and electrical system damage from repeated start attempts against a locked engine. You will need to choose:
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 01/17/12
Click hyperlink for .PDF copy of TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464
(Credit 740GLE Post #1352)
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 09/14/11
TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011 has been super-ceded by TSB # 21 11 02 / 2025464 dated June 14, 2011 and most recently, TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 dated September 6, 2011. The latest TSB referenced updates to warranty table and labor information. It may be helpful to reference the latest TSB when requesting warranty work.
(Credit Aerox Post #1003)
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 6/2011
There is now a TSB with a fix for this issue. TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011, titled "Frozen Charge Air Cooler – Engine Will Not Start". It calls for installing a 1K0-198-803-B Cold Weather Intercooler Kit.
The kit includes:
Installation requires 3-4 hours labor and corresponding ECU software update. This kit was installed on my car by VW on 07/06/2011. Here are pictures of the kit installed on my '10 JSW, as seen from the front of the engine compartment. The post-IC intake charge temperature/vacuum actuator are circled in red. The rest of the kit is not easily viewed without removing the engine belly pan, etc.
EDIT 03/07/2012: Member UberVW_TDI posted nice pictures of the components of the kit in Post 792.
Integrated Temperature Sensor and Vacuum Switch / Blending Valve mounted on Elbow
Intercooler with vacuum actuated diverter valve
03G-906-051-K (VACUUM SENSOR)
EDIT 03/07/2012: Member PAJettaTDI posted good photos of his installation in his photo thread.
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Post from original merged thread:
Last year about Feb I had to bring my car to the dealer because it would not start, let it sit awhile and fired up.
Did it again yesterday. Pulled out the battery tester, had 95% left and just flipped to maintain. Went upstairs for something and came back it fired up, ran like poop and smoothed out.
Started looking into it and driving in the snow storm could have frozen my inter cooler from what I have seen, no codes though. Brought it to the dealer yesterday after work (ran fine to work ect), to have them look at it and install the tech bulletin equipment (IF THEY FOUND WATER?!) Sounds like they found a bit of water, not sure what their plan is, they want to keep it this weekend to see if it does it again Monday.
Anything else it could be before I start throwing a fit at them, already emailed VW cares executive people on it again.
Had the glow plug #3 go out last month too. I live in Michigan, I do not understand why a tech bulletin for cold weather stuff would even be considered optional at that point.
Due to the high volume of intercooler icing threads popping up with the cold weather, I'm creating a STICKY thread in this forum to contain all intercooler icing related discussions. This will make it easier to find information in the future, rather than have a dozen threads about similar issues.
Bear with me as I combine old threads in the Mk6 Jetta forum into this sticky thread. Some posts may seem out of sequence, but that's because multiple threads are being combined into one.
If you're looking for more information on intercooler icing and cold weather no-start related issues, please see (and contribute to) the following thread...
Main TDIClub intercooler icing thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL THREAD/PROBLEM SUMMARY:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE 12/21/13
New TSB issued that includes all VWs with CBEA and CJAA engines (Audi A3 is unknown), including Beetle and Beetle Convertible. See attached PDF for complete TSB.
Intercooler kit changeover valve revised from 0C to 10C.
Current TSB in PDF format
-VeeDubTDI
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 01/18/12
GraniteRooster's Frozen Charge Air Cooler (Intercooler) FAQ / Problem Summary
In an attempt to provide to most relevant details to the forum in summary format, I have compiled the following brief of the issues. This is multifaceted problem whose unresolved issues and discussion runs much deeper than this summary - I'd encourage folks to read the thread in detail for best understanding. At 1900+ posts and counting, you'll need a cup of coffee/tea and comfy chair
Problem
When driving in winter conditions (below ~20-25°F), external airflow over the air-air intercooler (IC) is cold enough to cause internal ice buildup in the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Ice buildup may lead to a variety of operational difficulties including restricted intake, reduced power, LIMP mode, engine stumbling, melt water or ice ingestion, and catastrophic engine damage.
Affected Engines
All 2.0L CR TDI engines (CJAA/CBEA) installed in all 2009-2012 model year Jetta TDI, Jetta Sportwagen TDI, and Golf TDI vehicles. Vehicles in both US and Canada are affected.
Occurrence
Ice buildup occurs while driving in cold winter conditions, typically below ~20-25°F. Melt water and ice ingestion may be experienced on subsequent engine start if the car is allowed to thaw while parked (such as in a warm garage, or warm parking lot above freezing temperatures).
Causes
This is a thermodynamic phenomenon caused by condensation and subsequent freezing or direct vapor deposition of water vapor as the turbo-compressed charge air is cooled through the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Two main aspects of engine design contribute to the problem:
- Low-pressure EGR is used to control NOx formation for emissions compliance, however, this recirculates water vapor rich exhaust back to the turbo and IC.
- The IC design on these vehicles is very efficient, providing good heat transfer and economy (and good ice formation under proper conditions)
Ice
- Restricted Intake & Reduced Power
- LIMP Mode (flashing MIL’s, “Service Now” message)
- Engine will not turn over (complete ice obstruction of intake)
- Catastrophic engine damage (ice chip ingestion)
- Engine will not turn over, "dead battery" starter action (due to hydraulic resistance in cylinder)
- Starter/electrical fires (due to starter overheating during attempts to start locked engine)
- Engine will turn over slow / not start (drowning)
- Engine will misfire, stumble, and run roughly upon starting (water ingestion)
- Engine will misfire, stumble and run roughly upon acceleration (water ingestion)
- Catastrophic engine damage (water ingestion – hydrolock)
VW has issued Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. The kit may be installed by dealers on documented vehicles under original 36k warranty. Customers outside 36k warranty have often been denied installation under 60k powertrain warranty.
A (basically ineffective placebo) temporary solution implemented by VW involves removal of the forward facing cold air intake "snorkle" so that the airbox draws air from the engine bay, which allegedly may be warmer. In practice, TDIClub member testing has shown this modification to make insignificant changes to intake air temperatures, and is therefore ineffective.
What to Do - Frozen IC happened to me!
If the car won't start after one attempt, or stumbles and dies after an initial attempt, ***STOP!*** You have some decision making to do...
Further attempts to start the engine may (or may not) cause damage from minor to catastrophic. Depending on the amount of water in the intake and engine, damage may occur to pistons, connecting rods, glow plugs, injectors, head gaskets, etc. due to hydraulic lock. There is also risk of starter and electrical system damage from repeated start attempts against a locked engine. You will need to choose:
- Service the car (preferred) , or
- Attempt to start the engine and get where you are going (risky)
- Option 1: If under 36k warranty period, have the car towed to a VW dealer by VWoA to have the water and ice drained out and problem documented for installation of Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. Dealers typically will require this hands-on service and documentation to gain required approval from VWoA for installation of the IC TSB under warranty.
- Option 2: Elevate the front of the car on jackstands, remove belly pan and lower IC outlet charge hose, remove water and ice from assembly. Reassemble and drive. This option will not be convenient for a typical owner in most typical situations, given need for jacks, stands, tools, light, etc. plus safe environment and time to complete the repair.
- Option 3: Have vehicle towed to appropriate repair facility for removal of water and ice from the IC assembly
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 01/17/12
Click hyperlink for .PDF copy of TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464
(Credit 740GLE Post #1352)
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 09/14/11
TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011 has been super-ceded by TSB # 21 11 02 / 2025464 dated June 14, 2011 and most recently, TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 dated September 6, 2011. The latest TSB referenced updates to warranty table and labor information. It may be helpful to reference the latest TSB when requesting warranty work.
(Credit Aerox Post #1003)
***************************************************************************************
UPDATE 6/2011
There is now a TSB with a fix for this issue. TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011, titled "Frozen Charge Air Cooler – Engine Will Not Start". It calls for installing a 1K0-198-803-B Cold Weather Intercooler Kit.
The kit includes:
- New Intercooler (IC) with internal vacuum-actuated flap valve
- Vacuum Sensor
- Intake Elbow with Temperature Probe & Vacuum Actuator
- required plumbing
Installation requires 3-4 hours labor and corresponding ECU software update. This kit was installed on my car by VW on 07/06/2011. Here are pictures of the kit installed on my '10 JSW, as seen from the front of the engine compartment. The post-IC intake charge temperature/vacuum actuator are circled in red. The rest of the kit is not easily viewed without removing the engine belly pan, etc.
EDIT 03/07/2012: Member UberVW_TDI posted nice pictures of the components of the kit in Post 792.
Integrated Temperature Sensor and Vacuum Switch / Blending Valve mounted on Elbow
Intercooler with vacuum actuated diverter valve
03G-906-051-K (VACUUM SENSOR)
EDIT 03/07/2012: Member PAJettaTDI posted good photos of his installation in his photo thread.
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Post from original merged thread:
Last year about Feb I had to bring my car to the dealer because it would not start, let it sit awhile and fired up.
Did it again yesterday. Pulled out the battery tester, had 95% left and just flipped to maintain. Went upstairs for something and came back it fired up, ran like poop and smoothed out.
Started looking into it and driving in the snow storm could have frozen my inter cooler from what I have seen, no codes though. Brought it to the dealer yesterday after work (ran fine to work ect), to have them look at it and install the tech bulletin equipment (IF THEY FOUND WATER?!) Sounds like they found a bit of water, not sure what their plan is, they want to keep it this weekend to see if it does it again Monday.
Anything else it could be before I start throwing a fit at them, already emailed VW cares executive people on it again.
Had the glow plug #3 go out last month too. I live in Michigan, I do not understand why a tech bulletin for cold weather stuff would even be considered optional at that point.
Last edited by a moderator: