Mk4 menagement and GT20-22 turbo

traxterXT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Ottawa On, Canada
TDI
jetta 2005
I'm building a big TDI project and the engine came out of 1999.5 jetta and the egine will be swaped into a 1996 golf so there's no place for the VNT20. the project will be built with a
-GT20 with GT22 compressor wheel
-Kerma race 520 injectors.
-Machined piston 17.5:1CR
-02J tranny from a mk4

Now i got a delima the mk4 ran VNT and i want to run GT. i dont want the opignion vnt and gt the vnt will not fit in the mk3 body due to motor mount and need to keep the motor strong because it will be a beast

How can I run GT on the mk4 menagement i heard of fooling the MAP sensor and make beleive thats running fine.

Some said a remap with a different menagement

anyhow the engine timing and fuel will be trown off with new piston and turbo and might need a new map. I was thinking to run the fuel pump on a switch and a pot to ajust the fueling.

the project is posted on our local board on OVD http://tdiproject.webhop.net
 

mojogoes

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
england
TDI
mk3 tdi golf
Why don't you have someone make you a turbo header/manifold to place which ever turbo your going to use where it needs to be........or modify the bulk head to allow for the bigger turbo.
 

traxterXT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Ottawa On, Canada
TDI
jetta 2005
Well I'm more looking in the efficiency of the GT 20-22 wich is better and it can take more abuse then the VNT 20. running 30-35PSI on a VNT might be too much and the GT20-22 will be bolt on with the MK2 TD manifold and a adapter flange wich makes a 40$ manifold
 

Mark@MaloneTuning

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Location
Blaine, Washington and Vancouver, British Columbia
TDI
'14 GSW TDI, '11 Golf TDI, '97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L TDI, '96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI, '93 Eurovan Westfalia 1.9L TDI, '09 BMW 335d, '17 BMW 328d
jnecr said:
huh? I don't follow?
He is talking about the "evry mod," which is sort of like a tuning box. If you haven't heard of the evry mod, search for a thread titled something like "champagne performance on a beer budget."
 

traxterXT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Ottawa On, Canada
TDI
jetta 2005
well the every mod mad more power on the dyno in ottawa and the every mod can be switch off for better fuel economy in a situation like mine wich is gonna be able to run alot of fuel and by lowering the compression it will also allow mw to push the torque line higher to get more top end HP:D what the tdi needs more because 2000rpm torque will break stuff so by pushing the torque it will be crazy fast and some crazy HP number and also crazy smoke when the turbo is not spooled



 
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Passenger Performance

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Location
Abbotsford B.C.
TDI
83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
I cant tell wether that piston top and lands are ceramic coated or just beadblasted, but either way, if if those pistons have been blasted or coated on the ring lands they are junk now. The tops are fine but the lands are a big no no.
 

Passenger Performance

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Location
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83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
TDIMeister said:
VW engineers don't know what they're doing :rolleyes:

;)
Is this dirrected at me? Are you joking? Glass beads get stuck in the ring lands and you know when they come out? When the engine is running which than scores your cylinder walls. If you coat your ring lands you cant fit your rings on anymore. And as far as vw engineers knowing what they are doing... they are still human beings and they have had some pretty big screw ups. The 93-97 1.9 IDI crank failures were not a result of vw engineers knowing what they are doing. Putting retardely small turbos that creating a 3:1 drive pressure is not knowing what you are doing. Etc etc, I could go on all day about some of their stuff. And yes I know all about having to build somethign affordable and reliable etc, but the dealer replaced tons of those 1.9IDI engines and they have replaced tons of their small turbos under warranty because they arent reliable. hahah man I am just gonna stop now. I'm not saying vw doesnt know anything but they definately make you go:confused:
 

jnecr

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
2014 BMW 328d
quadcomm said:
He is talking about the "evry mod," which is sort of like a tuning box. If you haven't heard of the evry mod, search for a thread titled something like "champagne performance on a beer budget."
gotcha, I didn't realize this is what he was talking about...
 

jnecr

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
2014 BMW 328d
Passenger Performance said:
Is this dirrected at me?
I don't think he directed that at you, I think he was referring to something that the initial poster is planning on doing...
 

Passenger Performance

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Location
Abbotsford B.C.
TDI
83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
Oh I'd like to add good choice on the gt series turbos. I would say go with a full gt22 though. The gt20 is pretty small, I built a 1.6 IDI that had a bunch of head work done to it, but a crappy 8v log style manifold, still made 1.5 psi of boost at idle, and it spooled super quick, made 37 psi before 4 grand.
 

Hasenwerk

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Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Location
Quesnel, BC
TDI
1982 Cabriolet (BEW|VNT17|Stage4), 1989 VW TriStar Syncro soon-to-be CR TDI (CBEA), 2001 Ford Ranger Edge 4x4 (ALH|VNT17|R520|Stage4)
Here's my thoughts on running a GT in place of a VNT or in otherwords a waste gate turbo in place of the variable vane turbo.

http://www.boostvalve.com

Really, I think too much fuss has been made over this issue. You need to have few things happening to achive what you are looking for. First, the ECU needs to be remapped for the desired boost - pretty obvious I think. Then start thinking outside the box... throw out that N75 valve and install a 20 ohm resistor in it's place so the ECU doesn't freak out. Then install a boost valve set to the boost level that the ECU wants to see and you are set. When the boost pressure overcomes the spring pressure in the boost valve that waste gate will open and there you have your capped boost level - just have to have the boost valve set to the same level as the ECU wants to see. I am pretty sure Mark can do the programming for you on the ECU side of things.
 

traxterXT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Ottawa On, Canada
TDI
jetta 2005
The piston has not been coated they have beed lightly blasted with classblast and washed after. I will probably polish ring land with a coton whell to make them nice and shinny. The shop that i got the pistond done deals with alot of diesel engine and pistons my 2 cents
 

traxterXT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Ottawa On, Canada
TDI
jetta 2005
The piston look hardly sand blaster on the picture but they are not you still see all the OEM marking on the piston. the guy at the shop they where so dirty that ring scraper would have damaged the pistons
 

Passenger Performance

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Joined
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Location
Abbotsford B.C.
TDI
83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
I have worked and still work ina shop that rebuilds tons of vw diesel engines, not that the diesel part makes a difference, but pistons at NO POINT should be subjected to any sort of blasting on the ring lands. You cant get all of the glass beads out no matter how much you wash them, trust me, I have to deal with this everyday. Even if you get most of the glass out and you don't score the cylinder walls you will detroy the rings lands themselves and which will result in too much play for the rings... it just snowballs from there. As far as being to dirty, the product you need is castrol "super clean", give them a good wash with this and than use the ring scraper, 90% of the time you spend more time (often double or more) cleaning the pistons than they are worth. This is assuming its done by a shop at shop rate. There are some things on diesel engines that are just not worth cheaping out on.
 

Passenger Performance

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Location
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Oh I would like to add that I am not bagging on you, I am just trying to inform you, no offense needs to be taken. Also one way of installing the wastegated turbo and that will make your entire swap easier would be installing a mechanical pump, no more wiring.
 

StingrayRT

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Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Location
Slovakia
TDI
AUDI A6 2.7Tdi Avant Quattro
traxterXT said:
well the every mod mad more power on the dyno in ottawa and the every mod can be switch off for better fuel economy in a situation like mine wich is gonna be able to run alot of fuel and by lowering the compression it will also allow mw to push the torque line higher to get more top end HP:D what the tdi needs more because 2000rpm torque will break stuff so by pushing the torque it will be crazy fast and some crazy HP number and also crazy smoke when the turbo is not spooled




Don´t believe.........you almost remove a omega combustion chamber!!! Definetly this will kill you engine......this pistons cannot be used!!!!!!!!!
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Maybe it's just the timing that my post came after yours, but be assured that my comment was not directed at you, Dave.
 

Passenger Performance

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Nov 16, 2005
Location
Abbotsford B.C.
TDI
83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
StingrayRT said:
Don´t believe.........you almost remove a omega combustion chamber!!! Definetly this will kill you engine......this pistons cannot be used!!!!!!!!!

Hey stingray, I am interested in your experiences with removing the lip of the omega chamber. Could you explain the pitfalls you have come across by doing this?
 

StingrayRT

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Joined
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Location
Slovakia
TDI
AUDI A6 2.7Tdi Avant Quattro
Passenger Performance said:
Hey stingray, I am interested in your experiences with removing the lip of the omega chamber. Could you explain the pitfalls you have come across by doing this?
We prefer a heron combustion chamber at the top of pistons this will help the swirl effect.......and does not have parasitic effect for combustion process.....

 

StingrayRT

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Slovakia
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AUDI A6 2.7Tdi Avant Quattro
IF you wanna clean pistons just use cryo blastings.......it use CO2, before the blasting starts heat the pistons at about 80°C. It will be clean without damaging the pistons.
 

Aligator

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Location
Poland
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AGR, AVF, AMF, BLB
It is possible to make a special software that will run wastegated turbo fully ECU controlled. You will additionally need 3 or 3.5bar map for that.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
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Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
VW had already considered almost every conceivable bowl geometry over decades of research, including the ones that are being mentioned in this thread. For VW's decided weighing of all sets of criteria (noise, smoke, NOx, HC/CO, specific power, specific fuel consumption, operating RPM, etc.), it arrived at one optimized design, what we have in our cars today, and this was done with extensive engineering, analysis and testing, not indiscriminate machining.

That was what I was referring to in my first post, and it was meant to be lighthhearted.


 

StingrayRT

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Slovakia
TDI
AUDI A6 2.7Tdi Avant Quattro
Aligator said:
It is possible to make a special software that will run wastegated turbo fully ECU controlled. You will additionally need 3 or 3.5bar map for that.

YOu don´t need them..........stock ECU will control both WG or VNT turbos without any problem........

eg. Mercedes 2.2cdi 102ps version use WG turbo and 130ps use VNT turbos.....if you attach a vnt turbo to 102ps it works perfect.....this is because WG actuator is drive by vacuum (not pressure like normal WG turbos) to same like a VNT.

Simply you must find a two side WG actuator (pressure/vacuum side) and change a setting for WG butterfly it must be opened if the engine off and closed the engine starts.....


Sorry may be I write this not correct in english......but if you don´t understand please write me.
 

StingrayRT

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Slovakia
TDI
AUDI A6 2.7Tdi Avant Quattro
TDIMeister said:
VW had already considered almost every conceivable bowl geometry over decades of research, including the ones that are being mentioned in this thread. For VW's decided weighing of all sets of criteria (noise, smoke, NOx, HC/CO, specific power, specific fuel consumption, operating RPM, etc.), it arrived at one optimized design, what we have in our cars today, and this was done with extensive engineering, analysis and testing, not indiscriminate machining.

That was what I was referring to in my first post, and it was meant to be lighthhearted.


Yes this design is correct any other change is disputable......but if the question is a lowering a compression ratio best way to do that is adapt a heron chamber at the top of piston......
 
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