*** MK2 Rally Build with ALH TDI ***

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
Pics have been restored!!!!! :)

Some of you may have seen this build on vwvortex but now that we have settled on an ALH swap I thought it might be time to sign up over here at TDIclub so we can get all the advice we will be needing in the coming months.

Thanks in advance for your support :)

Basic review:
1985 mk2 gti shell
New floors
Lightened bodyshell
Front strut tower extensions from TSSfab
Pin-mount jackstands and jacking points
Seam Welding
Extensive Cagework by Eric Langbein Racing
Tubular K-frame by Eric Langbein Racing
Tubular adjustable control arms
Lightened HVAC system
Carbon door panels etc
RS&SP Rally Suspension developed with the help of www.rallispec.com


To be completed:
Custom Motor Mounts
Reinforced rear beam with mk4 rear wheel bearings/stubs/brakes
Carbon & Aluminum Honeycomb side-impact panels
Steering Quickner
Custom Dash
VNT17 & injection/programming/etc upgrade
Swap in lightened MK4 ALH wiring harness
Intercooler --TMIC with NACA duct or FMIC TBD
Custom radiator
Traction Control
O2J with Limited Slip Diff--Clutch type

Pics of project:

If the pics don't display, you can go here:
http://quantumrallysport.googlepages.com/dynochart


















https://sites.google.com/site/quantumrallysport/cage3.jpg/IMG]

[IMG]https://sites.google.com/site/quantumrallysport/cage2.jpg/IMG]
 
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QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
Subframe:
Pictured below is the first version of the subframe. This one has no motor mounts and will be in our TDI powered mk2. I will add a pendulum mount once the motor is in place. There is already a second generation in the works that will be even lighter and stronger.
Weight: 13.8lbs
Stock weight: 21.8lbs
Savings: 8lbs
Strength: Increased significantly
Coolness: Very high :)

Contact me for Eric's contact information if you are interested.



 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
Very nice. Ill keep an eye out on this one.

is there a link to the vortex thread?
 

Pat Dolan

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Martensville, SK
TDI
2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
Just wondering about the "steering quickener" planned. Are you intending to run PS? If not, I think the fast ratio rack and pinion are still available for the MkII manual rack.
 

scubagli

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Location
leeds ny
TDI
1986 audi 4000Q ALH SWAP in progress...
wow thats real nice it makes my car look like a pos...awaiting pics of motor mounts.
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Nice build and thread. I'll be watching this as I'm sure there will be many others too.

When planning this, did you consider syncro or quattro as an option?
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
Pat Dolan said:
Just wondering about the "steering quickener" planned. Are you intending to run PS? If not, I think the fast ratio rack and pinion are still available for the MkII manual rack.
We are going to run power steering and a 1.5:1 steering quickner in the column. Something like the www.LandEfab.com modified steering columns... I don't have any pics of what we have in our 16v car, but you basically just cut out a section of the column and weld in some couplers and add the quickner.

 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
mogly said:
Nice build and thread. I'll be watching this as I'm sure there will be many others too.

When planning this, did you consider syncro or quattro as an option?
Not really. The syncro stuff that was made for the mk2 chassis is junk for motorsports (along with all the modern 4motion haldex stuff) and the extra work to get something to work with TDI gear ratios just isn't worth it. We regularly beat EVOs and STIs with just fwd and a 140hp 16v...

Now, put an old longitudinal Quattro drivetrain with locking diffs in an mk2 with a TDI and I would daily drive it forever...
 

Bush Hopper

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay and in the Bush
TDI
97 Eurovan, 2001 Jetta and a few other
Ah, I though at first it looked like a rally golf, The angel of one of the pictures made me think it had wide body panels LOL.
 
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Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
Kasper, its not a Rallye Golf.. its a 2 door mk2 Golf, That they are going to go Rally ing with. BIG DIFFERENCE. :)

no AWD, No Rare body panels, just a vanilla 2 door golf. dime a dozen (ish) compared to a Rallye Golf.
 

Bush Hopper

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay and in the Bush
TDI
97 Eurovan, 2001 Jetta and a few other
Growler said:
Kasper, its not a Rallye Golf.. its a 2 door mk2 Golf, That they are going to go Rally ing with. BIG DIFFERENCE. :)

no AWD, No Rare body panels, just a vanilla 2 door golf. dime a dozen (ish) compared to a Rallye Golf.
Your right, I dont know why I was thinking it was a rally golf. Well in this case, ye who cares. LOL
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
Slowly gathering all the parts to put the engine back together:

I pick up the head on Saturday from Justice Racing Engines
Headgasket, Timing belt, water pump, headbolts etc should be here early next week...
Hopefully will get the block & tranny mocked up in the shell and fab the motor mounts in the next few weeks.

Where is the best place to pick up a new VNT17 turbo? We will be fabbing up all the intercooler piping etc. I am leaning toward a top-mount intercooler in the back of the passenger's side of the engine bay but not sure yet. We also have the option of running an Air-to-water IC in the passenger's footwell. Either way, intake piping will be extremely short...
 

mtbr297

Vendor
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Ft. Worth, TX., USA
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, Seat Leon FR PD 150 6 speed.
Kerma sells hybrid turbos and tdi parts has 17/22 turbos. You did some serious bracing in this car. I want to know about the motor mounts when you finish. I want to build a mk1 caddie and do some speed records with the alh or maybe a pd motor but the mounts would be the same so I could put either motor in. Also do you have any pics of how you mounted the mk4 rear axle?
 
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shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Hey about time you guys came over here ;) Glad to see you finally did!

FYI depending on what you are planning on doing I worry that the vnt17 or hybrids may hinder you in the egt department if you plan on being on the throttle with heavy load a lot. If so I would plan on stepping up to something like a gt2054v or a gt2056v. But for a vnt17 the best us prices out there is with Boraparts.com (Aaron).

Also, pm me details if you can on the K frame and control arms... I might be interested in a set for my car... That K frame is super heavy!
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
mtbr297 said:
Also do you have any pics of how you mounted the mk4 rear axle?
We are not using the mk4 rear beam, just the stub axles & wheel bearings. Cut the endplates off the mk4 rear beam and weld them onto the mk2 rear beam.....
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
shortysclimbin said:
Hey about time you guys came over here ;) Glad to see you finally did!

FYI depending on what you are planning on doing I worry that the vnt17 or hybrids may hinder you in the egt department if you plan on being on the throttle with heavy load a lot. If so I would plan on stepping up to something like a gt2054v or a gt2056v. But for a vnt17 the best us prices out there is with Boraparts.com (Aaron).

Also, pm me details if you can on the K frame and control arms... I might be interested in a set for my car... That K frame is super heavy!
We will definitely be on the throttle with heavy load whenever we are on stage. Most stages are between 3 and 25 miles long and we push hard continuously. Lots of left-foot braking while at half to full throttle as well. It is not unusual to have glowing red brake rotors....

What does it take to run a non VNT turbo setup?
How much will it cost relative to doing a VNT17 upgrade?
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Great progress!
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
Big NoNo for the VNT17. The turbo choise is a matter of your power goals and rev range you plan on using. If you're going to be using 3-6k then something like WG 3267 would be nice (for 250-300hp) but I'm guessing youre not going for that high. For a usable rev range from 2000 to 5500rpm Id go with 2260vk. Very sturdy and super fast spooler. Good for clean 250hp and dirty 300hp on the dyno. Would not even brake sweat with 200whp.
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
hatemi said:
Big NoNo for the VNT17. The turbo choise is a matter of your power goals and rev range you plan on using. If you're going to be using 3-6k then something like WG 3267 would be nice (for 250-300hp) but I'm guessing youre not going for that high. For a usable rev range from 2000 to 5500rpm Id go with 2260vk. Very sturdy and super fast spooler. Good for clean 250hp and dirty 300hp on the dyno. Would not even brake sweat with 200whp.
Power goals:
150-175hp
250+lb-ft tq

We are already beating EVOs and STIs with an 145hp 126ft-lb tq 16v gasser.

Reliability & serviceability are 10x more important than ultimate power.

Remember, this is a lightweight 2200lb fwd car on loose surfaces, gravel, dirt, mud, snow, sand. And will only break 100mph on the very fastest stages. Even there the top is 120mph MAX!
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
Ok. Whats your gearing going to be like, and the rev range youre going to be using? VNT17 is good for those power levels on the street but it will be screaming for help if you use even that power for longer period of time. I believe its good to slightly overdo the turbo sizing just to be on the safe side. GTB1756VK is a good option for you aswell. Around 200WHP on the street so 180 shouldnt be that hard even if its used for long periods at a time. Very fast reaction and 10 years newer design compared to regular 1749VB. That would nett you lower EGTs and EMPs at the same power level. And practically no more lagg if tuned properly.

The tuner you are going to be using also matters. Some do like to tune small turbos to the brink of explosion (with very good results) and some like to tune larger turbos and use larger nozzles to keep the injection time shorter and thatway reducing EGTs and stress to other parts. Different ways to skin the cat I suppose, but I would chose the larger turbo and nozzles if it were me. Its good to oversize the parts for your powergoal and use 80% of their max potential rather than maxing them out.

PS. I like your project alot. I just wish there were a class we could run with a FWD turbodiesel and be even remotely competitive here. But the only real option is Rallysprint where the competition would be 300-500hp AWD cars...
 

QuantumRallySport

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
VA
TDI
mk2
Update: Slow and steady progress. We have basically a van full of parts on the way---Diff, intercooler, turbo, exhaust,. And the list of things to do is still s long I don't even bother writing it down.<p>Worked on getting the mk4 dash to fit. Still have to make brackets etc to hold it in place so in these pics, it is just sitting in there a bit out of position.








TDI head fresh from Justice Racing Engines <A HREF="http://www.justiceracingengines.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.justiceracingengines.com</A><p>





TDI Lump pre head removal:



Sunroof Panel test fit, drilled & ready to install after it is painted:



Misc bits for heat & defrost etc...
 
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