Mk2 Gti 1z conversion thread

[bblume]

Thanks again Steve for the response.

I'll for sure recheck the grounds
And I do know the CEL bulb works as I've switched it out with others.
I think it's because the mk3 sources the CEL signal in a different spot.(yellow plug??)

The tach however hasn't worked with either cluster ?

The ECU is another passat one that I snagged with a few other parts a few weeks ago. It's throwing a CEL code (saw this while running the passat cluster)
Haven't hooked up vag com yet though. The ECU I'm running may throw a code because of a lack of a fifth Injector (as it may have been from a passat that had that)

Because the oil pressure light flashes when grounding the circuit out the bentley says that means the circuit is good. But there are two sensors (one on the head and one on the oil filter flange) so maybe one or both are malfunctioning. But I'd like to confirm oil pressure anyways.

 

[Steve Addy]

Hey Brock
That's likely your problem, you need to get the MIL signal from the B4 to the Mk3 cluster harness by one of the methods I listed before. Either divert MIL around the fuse box to the yellow plug for the Mk3 cluster or wire the Mk3 cluster signal connector into the cluster harness block that the B4 sends the MIL signal on.

I'd probably confirm oil pressure before going any further. It's probably ok but it wouldn't hurt to know for certain. If the light is flashing below 2000 rpm then it's not the grey sender, it's the blue one (at least on AHU it's usually grey and blue). However, if you have no tach signal it is likely related to the oil pressure switch problem. The dynamic oil pressure system requires a tach signal to operate properly.

Check for continuity between ECU pin 2 and G1/12 (black / green wire) to verify that the tach signal is making it to the fuse box. Once you've checked that and know it's good it'll be a matter of checking for continuity between G1/12 and U1/6 where the tach signal comes out of the fuse box heading to the cluster.

Steve

Steve

 

[bblume]

Hey Brock
That's likely your problem, you need to get the MIL signal from the B4 to the Mk3 cluster harness by one of the methods I listed before. Either divert MIL around the fuse box to the yellow plug for the Mk3 cluster or wire the Mk3 cluster signal connector into the cluster harness block that the B4 sends the MIL signal on.

I'd probably confirm oil pressure before going any further. It's probably ok but it wouldn't hurt to know for certain. If the light is flashing below 2000 rpm then it's not the grey sender, it's the blue one (at least on AHU it's usually grey and blue). However, if you have no tach signal it is likely related to the oil pressure switch problem. The dynamic oil pressure system requires a tach signal to operate properly.

Looking at your write up I'm thinking pin 39 or pin8?

Check for continuity between ECU pin 2 and G1/12 (black / green wire) to verify that the tach signal is making it to the fuse box. Once you've checked that and know it's good it'll be a matter of checking for continuity between G1/12 and U1/6 where the tach signal comes out of the fuse box heading to the cluster.

Steve

Steve

Thanks Steve. As always you rule. Let me know when you want to come out to the mile high city. First 16 rounds of beer on me!!

Didn't have time today to work on oil pressure or MIL. BUT I did find an hour to test the connections you mentioned for the tach (since that may be the culprit with the oil pressure sensors). So I've got continuity from pin 2 to g1/12 and I've got continuity from g1/12 to u1/6 and I've even got continuity thru the cluster harness from u1/6 to pin 10 in the t28. So for me that means I've either got a bad tach (I don't have an oscilloscope so not sure I can bench test it) or there's a connection missing to the ecm? Is it a wire from the alternator I'm checing where they harvest the tach signal for the ecm?

Looking at your write up I'm thinking pin 39 or pin8?

 

[bblume]

EDIT: just sourced a new mk3 jetta instrument cluster at the JY
Going to get the fuel tank, lines and sender as well.

But still would like to know where the ecm gets the tach signal.

TIA


Also just was looking at the passat wiring diagram and it appears as though the tach comes from U2/2 and enters the passat cluster at t7/28. But maybe I'm reading it wrong ?

 

[Steve Addy]

EDIT: just sourced a new mk3 jetta instrument cluster at the JY
Going to get the fuel tank, lines and sender as well.

But still would like to know where the ecm gets the tach signal.

TIA


Also just was looking at the passat wiring diagram and it appears as though the tach comes from U2/2 and enters the passat cluster at t7/28. But maybe I'm reading it wrong ?

Does the Mk3 fuel tank / sender work in the Mk2 car? I can't remember what goes with what anymore, for some reason I thought the Mk2 wouldn't accept it but I'm more than willing to admit I am wrong there.

Be sure and get the one way valves on both fuel lines, they'll be tucked under the metal floor, and pray that JY didn't punch the tank like so many do now days.

The B4 and Mk3 will have same connection for tach at the ECU. The only big differences I can find between say a 96 B4 harness and a 98 Mk3 is the the two temp sensors for catalyst (not on Mk3), the V54 metering pump (5th injector) (not on Mk3) and the MFA signal wire (not on Mk3), otherwise I believe they're the same.

I'll do some more investigation and see if I can come up with anything else. It would be suspicious to find two clusters where the tachometer was non-functional...I suspect we'll find a bad wire or connection somewhere.

Steve

 

[Steve Addy]

Brock
The ECU gets tach information either from the crank position sensor (my original thinking) or in concert with the needle lift sensor at injector #3.

Have you used VCDS yet to see if there are any fault codes?

The tach signal creation is done inside the ECU and it does come from T68/2 going to G1/12. If you have continuity to the cluster from the ECU then I have to believe that the ECU is unable to generate a correct tachometer signal to send to the cluster and hence why you don't have any tach (and also have oil pressure warning buzzer).

Since you have a running vehicle check it with VCDS to see whether you have fault codes for needle lift sensor. Since you don't have your MIL connection completed yet I would bet you have a CEL that's related to the needle lift sensor.

EDIT: or CEL related to crank position sensor although if that were bad I wonder whether the engine would start or not...don't remember...lol.

Steve

 

[bblume]

Thanks again
I was planning on using vagcom tomorrow after checking oil pressure anyways.
I haven't run vcds since getting it running with the new ecu.
But I need to do so also to adjust/check IP timing.

The new cluster is less about a working tach (as I too think it's a wiring issue) and more about it being in perfect condition. The other one was beat as it was shipped to me. Broken plastic side wall. And missing one of the mounting posts.

I know there's a code/mil because it was illuminated when I was running the car with the Passat cluster and cluster harness.
More updates to come.

Congrats on getting the motor/trans in your car. Progress is progress! At this rate you'll be driving before me!!

 

[Steve Addy]

Thanks again
I was planning on using vagcom tomorrow after checking oil pressure anyways.
I haven't run vcds since getting it running with the new ecu.
But I need to do so also to adjust/check IP timing.

The new cluster is less about a working tach (as I too think it's a wiring issue) and more about it being in perfect condition. The other one was beat as it was shipped to me. Broken plastic side wall. And missing one of the mounting posts.

I know there's a code/mil because it was illuminated when I was running the car with the Passat cluster and cluster harness.
More updates to come.

Congrats on getting the motor/trans in your car. Progress is progress! At this rate you'll be driving before me!!

I wouldn't go that far, but at least it's now in there and the rest of the work is just installing stuff. I can also say that I got the engine installed in under a year (by 14 days...lol).

I had forgotten you had a CEL when the Passat cluster was installed. That will need to be figured out but I would guess you're closing in the issue.

Steve

 

[bblume]

So I ran vcds after confirming stellar oil pressure
Here are the results:

I'm confused by the two CAT codes as the car didn't have O2 sensors. Do these sensors (g20 and g132) exist somewhere I'm not looking. Probably have to defeat these two with resistors if I can find the wires.

I got the g28 code and repaired a bad wire to pin 8
But am not sure how to repair the other two wires. (They both go to ground but in the harness @ 220 & 156). I'm wondering if I just get those to ground I'll have a working tach?

And I didn't get the fuel quantity code until after clearing the initial codes and then running the car

 

[bblume]

Also got the MIL working and the oil light has stopped flashing/staying on while running

BUT now the car will start instantly but won't hold idle.
Going to redo the timing belt tomorrow. Maybe also try grounding
The g28 using the the same two ground paths that appear in the MAF
maybe then the tach will come to life

 

[Steve Addy]

Hey Brock
Looks like you're making progress, at least you know more now than you did before. You can probably get a little info about those faults from the Bentley manual, at least I think they're in there.

So what year is your B4 engine harness / engine from? Is the replacement ECU from the same year B4 or is it later? There could be some mis-match between the harness and the ECU that you'd need to deal with. This is in relation to the ECU fault for the catalyst temp sensors. I'm not sure but those sensors may have been used to regulate the 5th injector. Later B4 cars eliminated the injector and I believe the sensors but early cars (that didn't go in for recall) might still have this enabled.

BTW, the G28 is your crank position sensor, which is part of the tachometer equation, check the connection.

Steve

 

[bblume]

For sure
I'm working on the grounds for the g28 tomorrow.

The engine trans and harness are all from a 96 Passat.
The working ecu is from 19?? But the guy that gave it to me did mention the fifth injector issue. If I can get it down to just those two codes I'd be happy.

I don't have a b4 Bentley but I did search those codes. They didn't look promising. As in ECU death??

Would a Vw dealer honor the recall still?

 

[bblume]

Update:
Got it idling consistently and checked timing via
Still have a couple codes.

It's too far retarded to plot so before I redo the TB I'm going to adjust the IP back towards the motor (aka hammer mod). That will happen friday

I didn't have time to work on the tach signal. But I am moving forward albeit slowly.

 

[Steve Addy]

Update:
Got it idling consistently and checked timing via
Still have a couple codes.

It's too far retarded to plot so before I redo the TB I'm going to adjust the IP back towards the motor (aka hammer mod). That will happen friday

I didn't have time to work on the tach signal. But I am moving forward albeit slowly.

I'm pretty sure VW wouldn't honor the recall since the drive line is now installed in another car...but who knows. It appears that you have an early ECU, is it a black plastic case?

Also, bear in mind that too advanced timing can show up as too retarded in VCDS.

Also, hammer mod isn't related to pump static timing (advanced / retarded) but rather injection quantity. If I wanted to check and adjust timing I would and loosen the pump bolts (save for the one) and run the car with VCDS going and graph the timing. Once it was up to full operating temp I would try moving the pump fore and aft until I got my timing to register properly in VCDS. It could be a situation where your belt is off by a tooth also.

Good luck!

Steve

 

[bblume]

Sorry. I didn't mean iq hammer mod, I meant a slight tap on a loose IP to see if I can get it on the right part of the graph.

You're probably right about the recall. But I may call just to find out.

If the pump movement doesn't work I will reset timing again

But tomorrow the Mtn biking trails call so the car will have to wait.

 

[Steve Addy]

Sorry. I didn't mean iq hammer mod, I meant a slight tap on a loose IP to see if I can get it on the right part of the graph.

You're probably right about the recall. But I may call just to find out.

If the pump movement doesn't work I will reset timing again

But tomorrow the Mtn biking trails call so the car will have to wait.

Don't blame you, I haven't been on a cycle but once this year and it now looks like I'll miss RAGBRAI again. I used to ride over 100 miles a week, lately though zilch due to work.

On the pump deal you'll need to twist it with a firm pair of hands, and it'll resist staying in the new position until you get it bolted down. Just watch VCDS to see where it should be.

Steve

 

[Steve Addy]

BTW, you're running the BK ECU, which could be your biggest problem.

Steve

 

[bblume]

Haven't had time to even think about this...my really pregnant wife was in a car accident and we spent a few days in the hospital. Luckily we didn't have to induce or have c-section so we're back home now and finishing this up is kinda on hold.

When you say biggest problem, what exactly do you mean? Biggest problem with the tach? Timing? Obviously it will throw a code for 5th injector/ O2 sensor stuff...but something else too?

 

[Steve Addy]

Haven't had time to even think about this...my really pregnant wife was in a car accident and we spent a few days in the hospital. Luckily we didn't have to induce or have c-section so we're back home now and finishing this up is kinda on hold.

When you say biggest problem, what exactly do you mean? Biggest problem with the tach? Timing? Obviously it will throw a code for 5th injector/ O2 sensor stuff...but something else too?

What I meant was that your VCDS issues could be due to the differences in the early BK ecu vs what perhaps came with the car your harness came from...just venturing a guess.

All of the early Passat cars should have had the recall, but undoubtedly some did not, some slipped through the cracks either because owners moved or current ownership was unknown etc.

What I'm saying is that there should be no case where a catalyst sensor would throw a code if all had made it through the recall process.

Sorry to hear about the accident, glad your wife / child is ok and back home.

Steve

 

[bblume]

Mini update.

Coolant leak fixed (sort of). Still working on that

Still don't have a tach but do have CEL with the mk3 cluster

Oil light is sorted

Still need to vagcom set the timing by adjusting the IP and rebleed the brakes and somehow get the pressure in the clutch pedal pumped up. It wants to stay onthe floor after depressing it.

Anyhow...pics for clicks. Getting the dash back in today
Gotta get this thing home as we're about to have a baby...that may take precedence over finishing up the swap...

 

[bblume]

Ok. Dashi is in steering wheel on
It drove around the lot for the first time today
Then back into the bay...for some final adjustments before it takes its maiden voyage.
Still need to time with vcds and check codes again.
May need to mock up an exhaust hanger until I can have an exhaust shop weld things up for good.

Rebled the brakes and now have good pedal pressure
But clutch pedal still sits very low and the engagement point is really close to the floor.
I have a Mitty vac, but as far as I can tell fluid needs to be pushed into the clutch slave cylinder? Any tips here? It's drivable but not comforting with that little amount of work to engage/disengage the clutch.???

 

[bblume]

Also it does shift and the car will move after lifting off the clutch.
Im hoping the issue is air in the lines or not enoug fluid in the clutch slave or master.
Guess I've got to 'bleed' it by pressure forcing fluid in. Don't think a Mitty vac will do that though...

 

[Steve Addy]

Also it does shift and the car will move after lifting off the clutch.
Im hoping the issue is air in the lines or not enoug fluid in the clutch slave or master.
Guess I've got to 'bleed' it by pressure forcing fluid in. Don't think a Mitty vac will do that though...

You don't need to pressure bleed the clutch, you can bleed it just like you would a brake caliper or wheel cylinder. Just keep the fluid above the clutch MC feed port on the brake reservoir and you'll be fine

Was the clutch slave in good shape when you did the install?

Steve

 

[bblume]

It seemed to be in really good shape. Looks like it's a bit different according to this:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/b...nd-mk4-vw-and-audi/#bleeding-the-clutch-fluid

 

[Steve Addy]

It seemed to be in really good shape. Looks like it's a bit different according to this:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/b...nd-mk4-vw-and-audi/#bleeding-the-clutch-fluid

I don't know if I necessarily buy the argument presented with that. I have never had any difficulty bleeding the clutch slave via the traditional method. If the bleeder is open and you depress the clutch pedal (not pump but slowly press) you can chase the air bubbles out relatively easily.

At any rate you can bleed it any way you want as long as it's successful!

Steve

 

[bblume]

I don't know if I necessarily buy the argument presented with that. I have never had any difficulty bleeding the clutch slave via the traditional method. If the bleeder is open and you depress the clutch pedal (not pump but slowly press) you can chase the air bubbles out relatively easily.

At any rate you can bleed it any way you want as long as it's successful!

Steve

What are you suggesting that's different than the mytdi wiki?
It sounds like it's the same. I'm reading the part that discusses a helper depressing the clutch down slowly then open the port on the transaxle...and before having helper pull back/lift the clutch pedal close the bleed port. As far as I know from what I read it's when the clutch pedal is all the way up that fluid enters. Both the clutch master and slave have nothing in them as they were nearly fully drained while sitting during the swap.

This is a quote from the wiki:
"So don't pump the clutch pedal when bleeding - have a helper push and HOLD down the clutch pedal, then you can open the bleeder (circled below in red) to draw out the fluid. This will relieve the pedal pressure, close the bleeder nipple and then the helper can raise the clutch pedal. Otherwise, it can suck in the old fluid or any air bubbles. If the pedal drops to the floor, just pull it up. Again, have your helper press and hold the clutch pedal, open the bleeder, let drain, close the bleeder, and then they can raise the clutch pedal. On your VW, the bleeder nipple is near the top of the clutch slave cylinder but on many cars it's on the bottom of the transmission."

 

[bblume]

Update::: 1 step forward two steps back---
Clutch is workable
Tried the pump,twist timing adjustment.
Not enough play to get,it on the graph...so maybe I need to,retime again. This time vcds said it's too advanced to plot whereas before it,said too retarded to plot??

Filled up ahalf of a tank to make the drive home
Went to drive it away a few blocks away from the shop
And the oil pressure warning alarm goes off.
Turn around and go to lunch because I'm pissed

After an hour or so come back and out it on the lift.
Find a leak from the transaxle bell housing
Assuming it's the rear main (brand new and installed dry...I think I recall reading they didnt require extra sealant
Also a bit of weeping oil from the line that goes to turbo.

Stuck on the oil pressure guage
At idle it's consistently above 20psi
Then when revving the pressure was responsive
Went above certain rpm and tripped the alarm again
And the pressure was less than responsive???

Anyways...no time now. Baby is coming tomorrow night via induction

When I have a chance down the road, I guess I'll drop the motor and pull the trans!!!
No tdi fun for me yet! Although zipping around today was a lot of fun before the oil issue.

 

[Steve Addy]

Hey Brock
Sorry to hear about your problems. I too have been worried about the teflon rear main seal, I do not want to have problems with that, otherwise I'll wish I'd just gone with the old school seal / carrier setup instead of the complicated teflon one.

First, is your oil pressure gauge a manual unit? Before you give up on that just test the low pressure switch. If it's like the AHU it should be a grey sender in the filter stand, Bentley has the test procedure for it. If it's like the early 1Z engines I don't know what color it is...or better said I can't remember.

Good luck with the birth!

Steve

 

[bblume]

Thanks Steve
Rear mains can be a pia

Had a few minutes so I drove it around today and put it thru it's paces.
Runs and drives good. Oil pressure guage is a manual one and I had it clamped in the windshield wiper. Pressure was good today and no alarm went off. So now it's really just a matter of sorting out the leak and moving forward with the final parts of the swap. As of right now though it's a heck of a lot of fun. But it will be a bit before I get time to chase down the leak.

 

[bblume]

Update::: long time no post since having a three-month old is a game changer!!

Drove the car to my friends shop and having him shake down all the leaks. As of now he's only found the oil return line on the turbo. Fingers crossed it's not the rear main!!!

Coolant leak near the thermostat persists...and i may have him do a slave cylinder or master for the clutch. So much for the full DIYS but it was fun driving the running swap over to the shop!