Mk2 Gti 1z conversion thread

bblume

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I may be able to get it to work...but I may wait to do it later, or I may use the sound deadening on the hood ? Probably not s great idea, but it may be better than nothing.
 

bblume

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Two questions:::
1-anybody have any tips for wiring the obd2 diagnostic plug in???

2-I'm using the in-talk pump for now as a lift pump...but it has a fine screen on the pick up tubr. I'm wondering if it'd be unwise to leave it on ? Or simply good to take it off or make a few bigger holes in it. Mainly wondering if gelling diesel will gob it up?

TIA!
 

bblume

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I'm guessing for the obd plug that:
Red/white is power
The 2 brownish ones are ground ??
Gray and white goes somewhere to the back of the fusebox. But I can't seem to find it on a2 resource??
 

Steve Addy

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The diagnostic connector is bundled with harnesses P & Q, at least on the Mk3 cars. How it's done on the B4 I can't say for sure, I haven't looked at P or Q from the B4 chassis.

Red / white is a shared connection that originates from Q/3 on Mk3. It covers lighter, radio, amplified speakers etc.

The brown wires are bundled with others and joined to a larger ground that attaches at the driver side grounding block to the left of the dash board.

The grey / white wire must connect to the grey / white from the ECU (pin 61) and is referenced in one of my past photos. How it gets there on a B4 I don't know, on a Mk3 the DLC grey / white wire connection has to be made with this specific junction block.



Also, there's this post I did a while back here

Steve
 

bblume

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The diagnostic connector is bundled with harnesses P & Q, at least on the Mk3 cars. How it's done on the B4 I can't say for sure, I haven't looked at P or Q from the B4 chassis.

Red / white is a shared connection that originates from Q/3 on Mk3. It covers lighter, radio, amplified speakers etc.

The brown wires are bundled with others and joined to a larger ground that attaches at the driver side grounding block to the left of the dash board.

The grey / white wire must connect to the grey / white from the ECU (pin 61) and is referenced in one of my past photos. How it gets there on a B4 I don't know, on a Mk3 the DLC grey / white wire connection has to be made with this specific junction block.



Also, there's this post I did a while back here

Steve

That's funny. I was just reading the link you posted here.
Well I've got two out of three of the grey/white wires hooked up. I've got continuity to pin 61 in the ecu Just trying to make sure about the last grey and white connection. I'll look in p and q

As always thanks !!
 

bblume

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So here's what it looks like

THE DLC connector has the grey/white wire that branches off in three places
One (two pin brown connector matching the brown connector on the DLC harness that continues on grey and white wire goes to ECU pin 61


ANother branch goes to a single pin brown connector that mates up to another brown connector that continues on with a brown and white wire heading to the instrument cluster (this is a mk3 tdi harness goiing to a mk3 tdi cluster but it's the same going to the passat cluster and harness (this looks right, but I'm not sure)



Then I'm left with the third branch of grey and white witt this white connector which I'll have to go back and look on the passat fuse box in the daylight to find where it conncected, but its the mystery of the moment...




Thanks again for all insights...
 

bblume

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Here's the section of the wiring heiroglyphics I'm working with in case it's more clear to you than me...
 

Steve Addy

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Yeah, that's very cryptic, I always hate those. I'll see if I can rationalize it with how it needs to go.

I will say that the Mk3 tdi cluster harness I have doesn't have the connector you referenced with the wire color you talked about. The only connection to the cluster harness that I that comes direct from main engine harness is from pin 60, for CEL.

I'll post back when I have something to add.

Steve
 

bblume

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This is the post that led me to the brown and yellow wire connected to the single brown connector.

I am trying to find a K1: short to ground as reported by the vag-com. I've traced the gr/ws wire from the OBD-II port to behind the instrument cluster. From there it branches off from a factory splice into 3 wires, all 3 are gr/ws. #1 goes into a brown plug that connects to a brown/yellow wire, I don't know where it goes yet. #2 goes into a different brown plug that connects to a gr/ws wire, I don't know where it goes yet. #3 goes to something that is attached to one of the sides of the fuse/relay block.

Does anyone know where these 3 wires terminate?

1996 Passat TDI, 5 Sp

John

It's from 2009 but it's helpful
 

Steve Addy

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Yes, it is helpful.

About the only thing I can offer at the moment is that you need to make the connection between pin 61 ECU and the OBD port connector, what goes on between is at the moment unknown to me and also confusing since I didn't think anything else needed access to data from pin 61 except for diagnostics.

I did take a look at the B4 radio harness and found the dual gr/ws wires in brown connectors that you talked about. I'll see if I can relate them to something in the rest of the harness parts I have laying around and see if I can reconcile the diagram with what really exists.

Finally, the gr/ws wire with the white connector with the single release tab ends in a white junction block, that's the only place that type of connector can go. If it actually goes somewhere else it'll have to be via another single tab connector to that same junction block.

EDIT: I actually just figured out that there are three gr/ws wires in the radio harness and on my b4 harness the white junction block is still attached...lol.

Steve
 
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Steve Addy

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Two questions:::
1-anybody have any tips for wiring the obd2 diagnostic plug in???

2-I'm using the in-talk pump for now as a lift pump...but it has a fine screen on the pick up tubr. I'm wondering if it'd be unwise to leave it on ? Or simply good to take it off or make a few bigger holes in it. Mainly wondering if gelling diesel will gob it up?

TIA!
When I converted my 89 Fox to diesel I excluded the old gasoline lift pump and kept the screen. I bridged the connection with a short length of metal pipe to maintain the same distance as the original assembly.

The reason I did this was because I had tested the gasser lift pump and if fuel got below a certain level there was a hole that would allow some air to be introduced in the fuel stream. On a gas car where this pump only feeds an accumulator that the high pressure pump feeds off of it was fine but on a diesel where the fuel supply needed to be completely sealed it wouldn't work.

It would a good idea to get the Mk2 diesel sender and the one way valves that go in the fuel lines. You can either swap out the gas car fuel lines for Mk2 diesel lines or probably just bridge across the old high pressure pump with new hose.

Steve
 

bblume

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When I converted my 89 Fox to diesel I excluded the old gasoline lift pump and kept the screen. I bridged the connection with a short length of metal pipe to maintain the same distance as the original assembly.

The reason I did this was because I had tested the gasser lift pump and if fuel got below a certain level there was a hole that would allow some air to be introduced in the fuel stream. On a gas car where this pump only feeds an accumulator that the high pressure pump feeds off of it was fine but on a diesel where the fuel supply needed to be completely sealed it wouldn't work.

It would a good idea to get the Mk2 diesel sender and the one way valves that go in the fuel lines. You can either swap out the gas car fuel lines for Mk2 diesel lines or probably just bridge across the old high pressure pump with new hose.

Steve
When you say "a metal pipe to bridge the gap" do you mean the gap left after removing the under-car pump?
 

bblume

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I did take a look at the B4 radio harness and found the dual gr/ws wires in brown connectors that you talked about. I'll see if I can relate them to something in the rest of the harness parts I have laying around and see if I can reconcile the diagram with what really exists

EDIT: I actually just figured out that there are three gr/ws wires in the radio harness and on my b4 harness the white junction block is still attached...lol.

Steve
Yes. I just found the white junction/jumper box that the harness clicked into. It had another gr/was wire running up towards the radio. I do remember reading something about that in another thread. People having obd problems after getting an aftermarket head unit. Oh well. Unless I hear something definitive, I'm going to leave that connection out.
 

Steve Addy

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Yes. I just found the white junction/jumper box that the harness clicked into. It had another gr/was wire running up towards the radio. I do remember reading something about that in another thread. People having obd problems after getting an aftermarket head unit. Oh well. Unless I hear something definitive, I'm going to leave that connection out.
Yeah, there is some kind of issue with OBD if you replace the radio with an aftermarket unit. Ok, just so this jives with what I'm looking at in the B4 harness I have, there is a gr/ws wire that comes from the OBD port (radio harness) that eventually splits into three wires, one is T2 female connector where only one pin is used, this connects to the corresponding brown T2 in the engine harness. The second gr/ws of the trio is the white T1 male connector that is for the junction block (with no known opposing connection?). The third connection is a T1 female in brown with no known destination. Does that sound about right?

As for the fuel pump issue, the pipe I installed was when I eliminated the in-tank lift pump, not the high pressure pump under the car. The added pipe extended the pickup back down to the bottom of the tank where it needed to be. With the lift pump in the IP there was no need for an external lift pump.

When I got rid of the high pressure pump I just installed new fuel lines from the original stubs that went to / from the high pressure pump to the tank supply / return lines. I added one way valves to each one of these lines under the car.

Hope this explanation helps.

Steve
 

bblume

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That description does sound right, I suppose I'll probably wire everything up once I get the motor in and get a battery and then see if it can communicate with The ecu. I suppose that would require me to have a vagcom as opposed to a Cheapo code reader??

Anyways, got the south bend clutch and trans installed. It really is ready to slide on in!!
Any pre-first start advice besides spinning the motor a few times to get oil moving through out and priming the fuel pump?

I'm gonna throw in the TB tomorrow and if I have help and time see if I can't get it in the car. Also wondering if I should try and attach the DP before or after getting it in. Probably wiser to do that after the motor is in??
 
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Steve Addy

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Good to hear you're ready for the engine install. You will likely need the vag-com after you've done the timing belt but if everything is close you should be able to get it running. Cheapo code readers won't be able to help you with the timing.

Nothing more to prep besides what you've already mentioned. The big problem I see with attaching the DP before hand is that it could get in the way when you jockey the engine / trans back and forth to get it in, but it does have a flex coupling so that does help. I think I'd probably try and get it installed before install, that would clearly be easier, especially if you have help moving stuff around while it's going in.

Only reason I would wait to install after it's in is if I had clear access to all the bolts when it's in place and I can't remember if there's the space.

I asked a friend to check on the OBD port wiring situation, he was supposed to check today but I haven't heard anything back from him yet. I'll pass on what ever I hear from him.

Steve
 

bblume

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^^^as always thanks Steve
I'm saving the IC parts for you.


Update::
Finished up timing belt install
Still working on perfecting the a/c and p/s delete

Gonna now go system by system and hook everything up because
The 1Z has landed in its new home...
 

Steve Addy

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That's great progress!

I'm curious what you did for engine suspension at all three points, if you kept the Mk2 subframe mountings and which mounts you used. I definitely recommend swapping the front engine mount for the diesel hydraulic mount if you kept the Mk2 cross member, and if you did that you'll need to swap the 1Z forward mounting bracket for the Mk2 front bracket (parts cat calls this a console).

In the rear if you kept the mk2 sub frame definitely consider getting the late Mk2 16v hydraulic mount (passenger side).

Nice work, more pics when you have time!

Steve
 

bblume

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That's great progress!

I'm curious what you did for engine suspension at all three points, if you kept the Mk2 subframe mountings and which mounts you used. I definitely recommend swapping the front engine mount for the diesel hydraulic mount if you kept the Mk2 cross member, and if you did that you'll need to swap the 1Z forward mounting bracket for the Mk2 front bracket (parts cat calls this a console).

In the rear if you kept the mk2 sub frame definitely consider getting the late Mk2 16v hydraulic mount (passenger side).

Nice work, more pics when you have time!

Steve

I'm using all three mounts for a tdi (new from ID parts)
fitted to the mk3 (corrado) k-frame and I
swapped in the passat crossmember with the mk2 rad support beam
Everything fits perfect so far...
 

vanbcguy

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For first startup I'd recommend priming the oil system before spinning over the engine. You can buy a tool that is basically just a rod with a slot cut in the end or make one yourself with a piece of bar stock. Pull the vacuum pump, engage the oil pump with your tool and spin it with a power drill. If you have a mechanical gauge you'll be able to verify you're making pressure too.

Priming is a good idea as all the oil passages will be totally empty - the turbo feed line, the oil filter, the passages up to the head all take a while to fill up. No sense grinding away with the whole engine spinning on dry bearings.
 

GTiTDi

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you can use a socket and extension on a drill to spin it too..no need for a special tool...I made a tool for this years ago before a friend suggested a socket...
 

bblume

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Great ideas here. I'm only getting an hour or two per day with it right now between classes and mtgs, but I'll definitely do this.

Pics for clicks::::

Got most of the coolant lines plumbed
The IP to fuel filter/water separator plumbed
98% done on the shift linkage
And got the airbox/maf to turbo done

Still need to make an 'H' fitting in the fuel lines (I'm running my in-tank pump for now)
Gonna redo all vacuum lines

Still need to find a way to plumb the lower rad to water pump (I'm using the mk2 rad) i sold my lower rad hose with the 16v so maybe another hose and just cut it before the 90 degree turn. Anyone have an idea here? The passat rad had all the junctions on the drivers side. I ca get the upper house to work, but the lower one is a no go!!

Also, a question regarding the IC plumbing...(probably need to post in the IC thread too)
For those that ran the charge pipe around the TB side of the engine, did you fab up a hose to the turbo? Or use the stock piece at all? I guess what I'm looking for is where to snag hoses that are smaller than the normal 2.5 inch IC tubing ( that's the diameter of the tubing and IC couplers I've sourced)??? I'm not yet sure which side of the motor I'll run both pipes but I've got a 28" IC that will either go in front of the rad behind the grille, or down low beneath the bumper....

Thanks for all the insights guys!!!
 

Steve Addy

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There's some discussion in another thread regarding the B3 syncro conversion to tdi that talks about radiator hoses. I'm not sure what he ended up doing but I do know that he didn't swap the front cross member like you did. Since you did swap that I see no reason why you can't run the Mk3 type radiator connections (passenger side) similar to the 16V setup, or maybe even the 16V hoses.

I have 16V hoses if you need them, they are used but the system was sealed when I started so I have no reason to believe that aren't good.

Since you aren't doing AC I see no reason why you can't use the passenger side radiator hoses or even the 16V radiator if you want to, especially if you kept the lower radiator support for the Mk2. It gets more complicated for people who don't swap to the TDI front cross member, clearance is very tight.

I'd suggest a Mk2 diesel radiator but the top connection has an odd angled connection that requires a special hose. I think the 16V radiator will be more than adequate for your application and it will make fitting the hoses easier.

It might be a case where you can use the 16V lower radiator hose and a Mk3 tdi upper rad hose. There are several Mk3 tdi upper radiator hoses out there that don't have the bung for the AC coolant temp sensor. Without the bung they're very reasonably priced.

Steve
 

bblume

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So I was able to sneak in a few hours of work today at the shop
Got the fuel lines wrapped up
Serp belt in with a/c delete pulley
and I mocked up one idea/way for the IC to work...



Still need to do engine bay wiring and and new vacuum lines
and work out a few reducers for the IC setup.
Also need to bleed the brakes and clutch setup and finish the one connection with the shift cables.
 

Steve Addy

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That would be a nice clean install but you'll have some work to do on the upper rad support and it looks like the driver side setup might conflict with the battery location quite a bit, unless you planned to move your battery to the rear of the car.

Steve
 

bblume

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That would be a nice clean install but you'll have some work to do on the upper rad support and it looks like the driver side setup might conflict with the battery location quite a bit, unless you planned to move your battery to the rear of the car.

Steve
Yes. I've got a few issues to sort out. I'm trying to avoid the move of the battery. But it does make a lot of sense when it comes to weight distribution.
I wanted to get an idea of how things might work. Not yet concrete on anything.

And GTDI....I was planning on plumbing some extra hose down to a spot where cold air will be forced into the jag box. If I cut it wider I'm not sure how I'd attach anything to it.


Today,was able to work only for an hour or so. I connected all the wiring from the passat harness. Still need to lengthen a few wires tomorrow (specifically one of the IP plugs and for sure the MAF plug. Breaking out the soldering iron and shrink wrap!!! After that it's vacuum lines then bleeding the brakes/slave cylinder. Then buttoning things up for a first start.
 

bblume

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So I ended up putting the intercooler down lower

The big bumper should funnel air right in just fine.
Now no need to move the battery. I was able to mount the FMIC from below and went around the rad on the passenger side and from underneath on the drivers side.



Here's what left to button up:
2-3 vacuum lines
Axles and control arms fitted to the spindles/brake assembly
Down pipe fitted to rest of exhaust
Bleed brakes and clutch
Add oil and coolant
See if the front strut bar still fits
Bumper and grille reinstalled
Dash and cluster fitted and installed
 

Steve Addy

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Nice work, can't wait to see the video of the first run!!

You might want to think about an underhood insulation blanket at some point, the Mk2 diesel cars had them.

Steve
 
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