MK VII Dynamic Steering Retrofit

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
Hmmm, so I just looked at parts.vw.com and are two steering racks that can be installed in the Golf R/GTI... one with Dynamic Steering and one without Dynamic Steering. The part number without Dynamic Steering matches the only steering rack they show for the TDI.

In 44 it let me select an option that has to do with driving modes but based on these part numbers my rack isn't capable. That would explain why I don't feel a difference. I guess that means I'm getting a new steering rack 😂. I'm adding you to my list, with @Nuje, of people costing me money, haha.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Sorry about that Cuzoe, It must be a pretty trick rack to be able to change ratios. Citroen had really interesting system that used no electronics, ran on 2200psi, and powered to center with centering increasing linear with speed. So at 125mph, steering is quite stiff. at parking speed steering always returns to center hands off. 2 turns L to L which is quite a quick ratio.
 

thundershorts

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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Oh well, you can adjust the amount of assist to your liking with vcds anyway. When you have the alignment done, Have them start with setting toe to zero, that way you will know if your left and right castor and camber angles are close in value. The subframe may have to be shifted in order to balance between the left and right. Don't let them tell you that you need toe for centering as you don't, the castor does that. make sure their machine is set to minutes of angle not tenths. I'm assuming your setup is going to be 1 to 1.5 negative camber so if any toe is imparted, it will change the camber angles left and right. Think of it as xyz planes , with a fixed constant the other planes can be read. As to rear axle, I found the non adjustable aspect of it really isn't critical, but best if it isn't way off. Now with the castor/camber balanced l/r as close as practical, toe set to zero,total toe zero, drive the car on a straight highway crown. Remove hands from wheel, should track perfectly straight. The design of the steering system in these cars enables it to make very slight power corrections to compensate for slight road crowning.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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I'd bet a R steering rack price new would be ridiculous and finding a good used one not easy Cuzoe.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
About $1,450 brand new... I paid more than that for the MIB 2.5 and 9.2" screen, haha.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Price same as one for regular golf? does it include controler or thats extra?
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
Same price for regular Golf. Oddly parts.vw.com shows both racks as applicable to the GTI/R... are those even available without driving modes? It only shows the rack without dynamic steering for the regular Golf.

More digging, parts.vw.com shows 5QM423053B as the part number for my TDI with dynamic steering. It shows 5QM423051B as the part number for without dynamic steering. My controller accepted the long coding for "with steering modes" or something like that, although I suppose that isn't a guarantee. The dynamic steering rack is about $1,100 while the one without is about $900.

I have more research to do. My autoscan shows 5Q0 909 144 R which I assume is the "module" part of the steering rack assembly. The guys that did my coding say I don't need to change rack (rack/module) but I'm still looking into it.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
With a different part number and price you would kind of think there is something different. In vcds 44 I remember being able to operate steering L to L without touching the wheel and also change assist percentages in 10% increments.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
I retrofitting parking assist and it auto steers just fine for parking, I just put in 1st or Reverse and operate the gas/clutch. That's why I figured I didn't need to replace anything.

I suspect the part number on parts.vw.com is the full assembly (module and rack). It looks like what we're calling the module (44) can be purchased alone (used) on eBay and I assume this is what shows up as the part number in VCDS scans. What I don't know is whether all the racks are the same and the modules can be swapped. Not sure how I could find out either unfortunately.
 

thundershorts

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If the track on the R is wider that could be the difference and the rack/tie rods could be longer. Could the steering imput sensor in the column be different as well? Is the module 44 incorporated in the rack/motor/belt assembly? Maybe a search for Golf R steering malfunction.
 

thundershorts

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The rack is obviously very different, 2.1 is same as my Citroen. Standard mk7 is 2.75. From this description, middle of rack slower steering response. Just changing the controller won't cut the mustard. However the steering column sensor may be different as well.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I've installed a number of quick ratio racks in various cars and the difference is dramatic in the driving fun. Its not surprising at all that people love the steering in the R. Again, the alignment settings will make it great.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
So there are two things at play here then... one is dynamic steering capability... the other is that the Golf R has a completely different rack.

So for now I would only be tackling the first part, which is getting the Golf "assembly" that supports dynamic steering. The "module" looks to be the electronics and motor, in an integrated unit that can be removed from the "rack" portion. No way for me to know if the Golf rack with/without dynamic steering is different.

It doesn't appear to me that the "module" can be replaced without dropping the subframe anyway so if (when) I do this I'll just replace the whole thing.

Retrofitting an R rack is a different matter... one that I'm now interested in... thanks a lot, haha.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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The rack listed for the R and the gti autobaun you show as same, that means also they both have the same trick ratio. The lower level gti does not have dcc.
 

Cuzoe

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You mean Driving Modes when you say DCC? (I guess a car with DCC also has driving modes). Anyway, this is kind of where I'm at...

Golf without Dynamic Steering: 5QM423051B - $1,090 (this is likely in my car now)
Golf with Dynamic Steering: 5QM423053B - $1,320 (this seems like the "drop in" replacement rack for my car)
GTI without Dynamic Steering: 5Q1423055M - $1,775 (maybe this is the quicker rack but without the ability to adjust ratio)
GTI/R with Dynamic Steering: 5Q1423056F - $1,775 (this should be the quicker rack, with adjustable ratio)

Which might be described as follows:
Golf standard rack, the most turns lock-lock
Golf Dynamic rack, still the most turns but with adjustable ratio and/or assist
GTI standard, less turns lock-lock than the two Golf racks
GTI/R Dynamic steering rack, less turns and with adjustable ratio and/or assist

I'm going to try and find some VW study guides to get a better handle on this. What I don't know is exactly what support for driving modes means. It could mean that steering assist (which can be changed in adaptations) is also changeable by selecting modes. It could also mean changing driving modes varies the steering ratio, in addition to changing the amount of assist.

Varying the amount of assist would not require different hardware (as we can change that now). Varying the ratio could require different hardware, which would explain the price difference between the Golf rack with/without Dynamic steering. But then it's curious that both the GTI and the GTI/R rack are the same price.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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I don't think any golf models were equipt with dynamic steering other than the R and autobahn gti. Perhaps some such as the gtd european models were. I guess to make a truly dynamic chassis with settings it would need the steering to complete the effect. A check shows the 53b as a gti rack. It looks like the gti rack 55m would be the one in the entry level gti. Its not easy to make to make the pick.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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I did find info on the 53b rack, its for gti and not dynamic no ratio info found. That if true, makes the choice easier.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
I have some experience with parts.vw.com not being completely accurate but the 53B says fits 2018 - 2020 GTI and is described as with dynamic steering. Then if you select "what this fits" you get Golfs (including my TDI) along with the GTIs (S, SE, Rabbit, Autobahn). I know around 2018 is when some things started beginning standard, but not sure exactly what. I guess parts.vw.com is likely showing vehicle that a part fits even if that part never came on the car.

Where are you looking up info for the various part numbers? I'm going to try ilcats when I get home, also not perfectly accurate but usually has PR codes.
 

Cuzoe

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So 51B is PR Code 1N3 - speed related variable steering assist
And 53B is PR Code 1N7 - Dynamic steering

56F, the GTI/R part, supercedes 56C which is also PR Code 1N7 - Dynamic steering

I have to think that 1N7 racks also have speed related variable steering assist... Does dynamic steering really just mean an overall quicker rack (fewer turns lock-lock)?

That would explain why the guys at VAG Retrofit and Coding told me that I don't need to replace my rack. Assuming that all of the racks are variable ratio (more response near lock but less near center so they don't feel nervous) driving modes would only impact the amount of assist. I haven't noticed the difference in steering but I also haven't gone for a canyon drive yet so I'm not really going far off center in my "testing" on regular streets.

That would be great because it means I don't need to change my steering rack unless I just want fewer turns lock-lock. 2018 looks like the last year you could get a GTI with or without Dynamic steering and in 2019 the only part number they show is with dynamic steering (PP also became standard in 2019 I think, so this sorta makes sense)
 

Cuzoe

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Would it make sense to move this discussion to its own thread? I'm thinking that it would be easier for future seekers of info on this issue to find it in a discrete thread.
Yes absolutely it would. I'm more than happy to start a thread about it. If there any mods around is it possible they could open a thread and move all of our off topic steering rack discussion into it?

If not I'll log in on my computer and multi quote all of it later this evening.
 
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thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
The speed sensing assist reduction I think is pretty standard, the tapering off curve may vary depending on drive mode setting. Actually pricing of steering racks haven't changed much for lot of makes over last 20 years. Maybe you can find an R or Autobahn you can drive to see how it works. Your canyon test circuit may not give you a true feeling till the front end is set up properly. If you haven't contemplated it yet, R seats are a great upgrade, I enjoy mine every day.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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Quick ratio steering is used by lots of manufacturers in their upscale sportier models, it makes low or moderate speed maneuvers snappier and nimble, 1/4 turn of wheel gets you around 90 degree corner, a flick of the wrist so to speak.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
You guys will have to let me know if these pictures work... But an on topic post for a change... Driving Modes :D
https://flic.kr/p/2kzKAxZ https://flic.kr/p/2kzG4Tv And as for switching to R seats... I switched to GTD seats, and retrofitted heating :cool:
https://flic.kr/p/2kzKEfZ
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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It would appear that normal setting doesn't make any changes under dcc, in other words, dcc is off. I love your seats, cloth is so much more comfortable than leather or pleather. Same frames and bolsters as R . Under settings like sport, things like diff locking, which our cars don't have and steering show active? Interesting they place normal, which is essentially off in the center of the selection menu.
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
Everything is showing Normal because I haven't changed anything in the individual mode. I asked the guys that did my remote coding about the front differential lock setting. The options I have there are Normal and Sport. I expressed my question regarding our cars not having the VAQ and was told this setting impacts XDS on cars without the VAQ. My Monroney sticker shows "XDS Cross Differential System" so I'll take their word for it... although I am unlikely to ever drive in a way that this setting will come into play.

DCC is always on. Comfort, Normal and Sport just change the stiffness and reaction time. If you have a suspension fault then DCC is in a failsafe mode which could be called Off. Otherwise it always working. Somebody sent me this a while back...

Although we don't have the dynamic rack (which appears to just be the shorter rack) there is a very noticeable difference in steering between the modes, especially at speed. Turns out that all my initial testing was just at speeds too low (and not enough steering input) to notice. Here's a picture of measuring blocks in 44.
https://flic.kr/p/2kzNAhz
 

JM Popaleetus

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Having a foot of snow last week, and another foot over yesterday and tomorrow. Retrofitting an ASR-off switch has been bumped to the top of my projects list.

In that same vein, @Cuzoe, have you retrofitted the Mode and ASR switches?
 

Cuzoe

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MK7 Golf S
Yes, I actually have all the switches, haha... right now two buttons do nothing...
TPMS Set - need to swap to the 46 pin ABS that supports TPMS set via a button, and not just via can command from the infotainment
Auto Start/Stop - this is currently wired to a relay that will turn the external Sound Actor on/off, when I install it
https://flic.kr/p/2kzRUn1 Our factory 38 pin ABS does not have an input to set TPMS via 12V signal, the 46 pin ABS accepts that signal on pin 41. Installing the 46 pin ABS has fallen way down in priority since my 38 pin ABS supports ACC with 6MT. It's not clear if the 38 pin ABS supports ACC with DSG, so I was originally switching to the 46 pin as per @Nuje's ACC retrofit DIY. I have the 46 pin in the garage, but no need to install it right now except the TPMS set function.
 
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Cuzoe

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I think this covers it, maybe we'll change the name to dynamic steering and other random topics, haha. Thanks for moving it.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Now with some snow and ice, I've noticed turning off stability control on my S golf disables the xds apparently as the diff acts as an open diff. With stability on, driving on slippery snow/ice, the left to right, to left power shift is quite annoying and why most people tend to turn it off. The lack of snow and ice in LA is a big plus.
 
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