Mixing some gas with Diesel in winter

Papick

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Location
Montreal Canada
TDI
Golf 2001
I am a new owner of a TDI golf, and have been bombarded with mixed opinions about Diesels how diesels behave in deeeep cold winter (-30-40°C) . So i have been speaking to every othe TDI owner I happen to meet.
One of them told me that he has been a Diesel car owner since 1973(?) and mentioned that in the original car manual from VW it was recommended to add 1½ liter of gas at every fill up during winter time to make start up easy and he has been doing that ever since, even with his 2005 TDI.
Has any one heard about that? Does that work? Does it harm the engine or anyhing at all?
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
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Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
True for the old cars. However, very poor game plan for the modern cars...
 

Joe_Meehan

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Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
If you are buying your fuel in an area that gets that cold, it has already been treated with the right stuff.

You could get away with using gasoline in the old days, but back then you could run into diesel that was not treated and the engine could handle the gasoline (even it it was more flammable)

Don't do it today. If you feel you need some additional protection (like when you just filled up in Florida and are driving due north, then buy a bottle of the additive designed for just that.
 

weedeater

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Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
Where you are, it would not hurt to ask the station folks if you're planning on traveling farther north how winterized (to what temperature) their fuel is.
 

naturist

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2001
Location
Bro Jerry's hometown, Virginia
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 2005 Jeep Libby CRD, 2012 BMW X5 35d
In Montreal you should have no problem, as I doubt you'd be able to find non-winterized diesel fuel without searching extensively. If you want to be ABSOLUTELY anal about it, buy a bottle of one of the diesel anti-gel products, say Power Service, Red Line, or Standyne. In any case, the gas idea was fine for 1973 diesels, but is a really bad idea for 1996 and newer diesels, ESPECIALLY common rail or PD VWs.

Your bud with the 2005 TDI is using dinosaur age technology to treat a problem he doesn't even have, and will likely pay for it with shortened injection pump and injector life. And those are VERY expensive parts.
 

dclark

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
I am not familiar with C degrees, but do keep in mind that diesel, heck even some antigel additives like Power Service will gel if it gets cold enough. i forget what temps, maybe -30 F? At any rate, at those temps and those temps alone, it could be worth splashing some gasoline into the diesel, as a premature pump failure will be cheaper than frost bitten toes that have to be amputated from extreme freeze.
Here's a little something that can be considered- if you see semi's driving along with no problems, so shall your tdi be able trudge along.
 

Long_Range

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Arthur, IL , USA
TDI
Jetta Sedan GL 2004
Water in fuel is all I worry about. Adding gas won't do anything to clear moisture that may be present. Small dose of Power Service white bottle to emulsify water is what I use. Changing your fuel filter to begin winter with a clean unit is a good idea.
 

mijbo11

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Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Location
Saskatoon SK Canada
TDI
1999 A3 Jetta
never i mean NEVER!!! put gas in your tank. all fuel stations(good ones) treat the fuel for the seasonal temps. they usually start in october. if you have any concerns buy a good anti gel treatment. montreals temps are milder than ours are and i have no problems.it -25 c right now. i have yet to see a stalled diesel. the only problem i could forsee is a mild day followed by a -30c day and having an empty tank of fuel. Kee p the tank full and happy driving.
 

naturist

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2001 Jetta TDI, 2005 Jeep Libby CRD, 2012 BMW X5 35d
dclark said:
I am not familiar with C degrees, but do keep in mind that diesel, heck even some antigel additives like Power Service will gel if it gets cold enough. i forget what temps, maybe -30 F? At any rate, at those temps and those temps alone, it could be worth splashing some gasoline into the diesel, as a premature pump failure will be cheaper than frost bitten toes that have to be amputated from extreme freeze.
Please do keep in mind that the temperature at which additives like Power Service gel by in the bottle by themselves has nothing whatever to do with their capacity to lower the gel point or low temperature characteristics of diesel fuel. I will remind you that rock salt, which gels (rather, freezes solid like, well, a rock) at something like 3000 degrees F still lowers the freezing point of water just fine. In so doing it makes ice cream and highway snow melt possible.

The fact remains, DO NOT PUT GASOLINE IN ANY AMOUNT IN YOUR FUEL. What worked and was helpful in 1973 is not helpful at all in 2007. If you buy quality fuel from dealers that turn their stock over reasonably rapidly, the occasional shot of additive on your part will be both overkill and a lot less expensive than either a new injection pump or frostbite, neither of which will be on your agenda.
 

idioteque

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Location
Saint Paul, MN, USA, EaRth
TDI
2005.5 jetta almost
No - I would NEVER recommend putting gas in diesel fuel

TDI fuel rails operate over 26000 psi which gas most like can not deal with
Diesel has a lubricity property, I would think gas has no lubricity which equates to scoring of your pump, cylinders, rings, etc...

I'm no expert, but my opinion is to stay very far away from gas.

I have used an additive in my Chev Diesel and it started like a champ at -36 last year. Hard to say if the fuel was close to gelling, or not... but regardless, it worked! ;-)

Good luck
 
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Papick

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Jun 5, 2007
Location
Montreal Canada
TDI
Golf 2001
Hey thanks all for your reply, I cannot wait to meet with the guy who told me to add gas to my fill up. Just curios to ask whether he had any premature part failer such as pump etc..
I was really worried, but as we speak it is already -10/-14 degrees weather everyday and my TDi is behaving well so far.
 

BioDiesel

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Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Location
CT
TDI
'98 Jetta
"all fuel stations(good ones) treat the fuel for the seasonal temps. "

I always get a laugh out of local petro users TDI'ers here in Connecticut who jell up first time it goes to 25*F/ -4*C. I guess they're not getting fuel at a 'good' station.

As it does get colder, I have to add a little more gasoline to my TDI.
Not much, 1/4 gallon to 5 gallons of soybean oil. Gasoline drops the viscosity dramatically.
1 part in 20, so I run about 5-10% gasoline.

"TDI fuel rails operate over 26000 psi which gas most like can not deal with"

What exactly happens to the gasoline?

The reason I ask is that I recently read an article about a gasoline-diesel hybrid engine just developed.
It runs on gasoline , but the fuel is injected and and uses compression ignition to ignite like a diesel.
So it's basically a diesel that runs on gasoline.
They might be overlooking problems caused by compressing gasoline.
 
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dieselgeezer

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Richmond, Virginia
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2006 Jetta TDI 5spd
For what it's worth, some hydrocarbons (e.g., cyclohexane) solidify at pressures much lower than 26,000 psi. Early users of high pressure liquid chromatography found this out when they tried to run cyclohexane through piston pumps at 1,000 psi. The pumps would stall until the pressure was brought back down or cyclohexane was substantially diluted with another solvent. Gasoline has a high content of cyclic and branched chain hydrocarbons which are likely to exhibit similar behaviors at extremely high pressures.
 

weedeater

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Reston, VA
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Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
They might be overlooking problems caused by compressing gasoline.
No, they're building a compression ignition engine that directly injects gasoline rather than diesel fuel. They don't have to compress it as much as diesel fuel to get it to atomize correctly.
 

dieselgeezer

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Richmond, Virginia
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2006 Jetta TDI 5spd
Again, some blends of gasoline could exhibit anomalous behaviors at higher pressures, even if they don't approach those produced in the TDI injectors. That could create quite an engineering problem. We can pour this stuff all day but we can't pump it.
 

Ilija

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Mar 16, 2005
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2005 silver
Translation of an article published recently on German Automobile Club web site

You might be interested in an article Irecently found on ADAC web site:
Damned – Wrong Fuel
Fuel dispenser nozzles must be clearly identified
Many drivers already experienced the fear shock at the fuel pump. The ADAC (German equivalent of AAA club) has to intervene about 5000 times each year because of wrong fuel. Even just the diesel engine start with gasoline can result in engine damage leading to repair costs as high as 7000 Euro. (More then $10000 US).
Especially the modern direct injected engines with common rail or with unit injectors must not be started even in case of minimum fuel dilution.
Entire fuel tank must be drained, cleaned and filled with fresh diesel fuel.
Most frequent reasons for fueling mix-ups:
Many fuel dispensing nozzles are marked by advertisements and quite often there are five or more types of fuels dispensed at the same pump island.
Only few years ago diesel pumps were separated and located at their own island usually in one corner of the gas station.
The earlier recommended dilution of diesel fuel by gasoline at could temperatures as a flow improver is today mostly explicitly prohibited but also unnecessary because of wide availability of winter fuel grade.
On the other side somebody who accidentally filled the tank of gasoline powered vehicle with diesel will only after few yards notice misfires and smoke.
In this case as well not only the tank but also the entire fuel system must be drained and cleaned. However this rarely occurs as the diesel dispenser nozzle doesn’t fit into the gasoline tank filler.
In order to avoid misfueling and expensive engine damage the ADAC requires advertisements to be replaced by unequivocal identification of each fuel type.
Similar sounding names like for example „Ultimate gasoline“ and „Ultimate diesel“ can easily be mixed up.
Beside of that is ADAC appealing to the vehicle manufacturers to clearly mark the fuel tank covers according to fuel requirement and also to look for technical solutions which would make misfueling impossible, like for example already implemented by BMW and Land Rover.
 
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