misfire

yahmon

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04 passat tdi 6spd stage2 webasto TC3 , 04 passatW8 6 spd, 10 Jetta TDI 6spd stage 1
Got a 2004 passat that all of a sudden is misfiring and turned emission light on.
It seems to idle normally but as soon as you give it a little throttle (in neutral)it sounds like it runs on only 3 cylinders. It still pulls through the entire rpm range under load but feels it lacks a little power. Got 132000 Miles on it and of course it just had to happen on friday.
Also have to say that the exhaust smells different, similar to a cold started engine but now at operating temperature
Any suggestions where to look?
 
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Alchemy

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Could be a number of things, so we need your help to narrow things down.

The first step would be to read the codes using a diagnostic scanner and report them here. Check the VAG COM / VCDS section on the parent forum for someone in your area or take the car to your local AutoZone and they will scan it for you in hopes of selling you the parts for the repair.


Got a 2004 passat that all of a sudden is misfiring and turned emission light on.
It seems to idle normally but as soon as you give it a little throttle (in neutral)it sounds like it runs on only 3 cylinders. It still pulls through the entire rpm range under load but feels it lacks a little power. Got 132000 Miles on it and of course it just had to happen on friday.
Also have to say that the exhaust smells different, similar to a cold started engine but now at operating temperature
Any suggestions where to look?
 

thundershorts

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You didn't mention whether the mil light has come on. It sounds like it is fueling the dead cyl by your description of unburned fuel smell and I would assume a bit of blue smoke? Had it been getting progressively lazy in performance before the total no firing cylinder?
 

yahmon

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Had a scan done with a Mac scanner and it had a code but i can't remember the number
It said it could be either the MAF or Mass volume sensor.
Not sure which one is the usual trouble maker.
Thundershorts, I am not sure what mil light is.
The engine light is on and it has a emmision workshop warning flashing.
When you drive it it shudders and it smokes black under acceleration, it runs the best at light throttle and higher rpm's
 

rydogg

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It's probably your intercooler hose. Based on your description it probably has a hole in it or popped off at one end. I dunno what it is about cold weather (or if it even has to do with the cold), but there seem to be a TON of these similar failures once the temps drop. Check all vacuum lines for leaks and good connection after you've checked the intercooler.

I suppose your MAF could be bad too, but I'd check that your air filter is clear and free of debris first...
 
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yahmon

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04 passat tdi 6spd stage2 webasto TC3 , 04 passatW8 6 spd, 10 Jetta TDI 6spd stage 1
Had filter and box out before, cleaned screen cleaned censors with censor cleaner. No results so far.
Is the MAF the one close to the airdox?
Thanks
 

rydogg

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Yes, it comes mounted in a tube just behind the air filter box. It's likely a vacuum leak so start checking the connections of all your tubes/hoses.
 

yahmon

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Took the egr of, dirty like hell, very sticky. Cleaned it and put it back in.
Didn't make it run better though and at this point i really started suspecting a valve not opening enough, especially because of the black smoke.
Took of the valve cover and my fears got confirmed, 1 lobe gone to ****.
Cam and lifters on the way.
 

bigdavee

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Feb 11, 2013
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East Sussex
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Bora TDi 130BHP
mines doing the exact same but it ticks over nicely but as soon as you put on the throttle it vibrates like mad. by the way I have a 130BHP Bora. When I took it out for a run everything seemed ok power etc but did sound a bit lumpy or so to speak! Think I need to take my valve cover off and have a look at whats happening under there!

Also I had a new powerflex performance dogbone bush fitted and of cause I get the usual vibrations from that but as mentioned as soon as I hit the throttle it just sounds 'groany' and spits out white smoke with a smell of diesel to it!!
 

thundershorts

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I suspected cam but didn't want to be an alarmist Thats why I asked if it came on gradually. It may have had wrong oil used in its life.
 

yahmon

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I had the cam on the radar earlier but the emission workshop light threw me of.
The wife had certainly run the wrong oil in it last fall(Midas oil change) and on top of that ran to many miles on the wrong oil.
Anyone know if the amsoil 507.00 spec 5w30 is any good?
Or should a guy go with the liqui moly 5w30 top tech 4200?
 

rydogg

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That's your problem!!! You should be using 5W40, not 5W30. That's where your CAM wear probably originated from. Search the forums for CAM wear and oil.

Also, any oil that is 505.01 or higher is acceptable (still using 5W40). You should be fine with a 507.00 oil.
 

yahmon

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it was actually a 5w40 synthetic 505.00 oil that destroyed it.
@ Oilhammer, got it parked, cover is of.
You would think 5w30 for the winter months be fine.
 
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yahmon

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04 passat tdi 6spd stage2 webasto TC3 , 04 passatW8 6 spd, 10 Jetta TDI 6spd stage 1
So I did a little investigating and i can't find a 5w40 with the 507.00 spec at all.
In 505.01 i can but not 507.00.
Anyone know otherwise please inform.
 

yahmon

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Well i stuck 507.00 in the engine which is a dpf version of 506.01 which in case is a long life 505.01.
The car lives in a cold climate and i can't check the mileage all the time of the wifes car since i am gone a lot.
Seems to run good, noticed new lifters had some kind of anti friction coating on them.
 

turbocharged798

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And you are going to kill your new cam.

Do not use 5W-30 oil in that engine. I don't care where you live.

507.00 is also far from idea because its for emissions and not protecting your engine.
 

yahmon

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How can you be so sure that it will kill it.
Viscosity has nothing to do with film strength of oil.
So explain why 5w30 will kill the cam and 5w40 won't
 

thundershorts

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Seems the proof that 5w-30 wipes out b5.5 cams is the number that have been screwed up using it, including yours. Those who use 5w-40 have far less cam problems, so suit yourself. Cost is the same, except when you consider how much a cam job costs. Unless the new cam is broken properly, it may have a shorter life.
 

yahmon

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Seems the proof that 5w-30 wipes out b5.5 cams is the number that have been screwed up using it, including yours. Those who use 5w-40 have far less cam problems, so suit yourself. Cost is the same, except when you consider how much a cam job costs. Unless the new cam is broken properly, it may have a shorter life.
My cam failed with a synthetic 5w40 that was the wrong spec and to many miles between oil changes.
Multi weight oils have a nasty habit of losing viscosity unless one uses a base stock group IV synthetic oil, which has a natural better viscosity range than any other oil since it doesn't rely on additives to achieve the viscosity range.
These additives have a bad habit of being broken down by shear forces and high heat. So before you know it your 5w40(which could be 5w35.5 wheras a 5w30 could be a 5w34.5, we just don't know) could be reduced to a 5W20.
I could go on and on about this but film strenght, resistance to breakdown from shear forces and viscosity index are way more important factors than the old oil classification.
 

Alchemy

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Yahmon,

All BHW engines sold in North America require 505.01 certified oil, and that comes in two flavors, a 5W30 and 5W40 version. As has been proven in a semi-scientific manner here on the boards by veteran members, 505.01 compliant/certified 5W40 helps protect camshafts better than 505.01 compliant/certified 5W30. I have 206k miles on my car, and have ALWAYS used 505.01 5W40 oil and I know this because I change it myself. I recently had to change the valve cover gasket, and my cam is in excellent condition with no galling present.

I think we all agree that viscosity breaks down over time and that 5W40 oils are not all created equal as they have different film strengths among other properties. 505.01 oils have to pass a certain threshold to be certified by VW, and certain 5W30 and 5W40 oils may pass it, but I think from real world experience, the latter is a better choice.

You may think that viscosity plays a greater factor than the classification of 505.01, but given that you toasted a cam because of your own negligence, coming here to ask for advice and then rebuking it won't win many friends. Heed the sage advice given here by some of the veteran members who have owned these cars since the day they were new, lived through the problems and figured out how to fix them.

Newbies to this forum, please read, understand and heed advice. These issues are not new to this forum, just new to you. It would appear that many B5.5 TDI's are changing owners these days, and the problems unique to these cars are being inherited by unsuspecting new owners.

Enough said.

My cam failed with a synthetic 5w40 that was the wrong spec and to many miles between oil changes.
Multi weight oils have a nasty habit of losing viscosity unless one uses a base stock group IV synthetic oil, which has a natural better viscosity range than any other oil since it doesn't rely on additives to achieve the viscosity range.
These additives have a bad habit of being broken down by shear forces and high heat. So before you know it your 5w40(which could be 5w35.5 wheras a 5w30 could be a 5w34.5, we just don't know) could be reduced to a 5W20.
I could go on and on about this but film strenght, resistance to breakdown from shear forces and viscosity index are way more important factors than the old oil classification.
 
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Alchemy

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"Seems to run good" is anecdotal and has nothing to do with long term performance of the oil in protecting the critical parts of the engine. If 507.00 oil is so good and worked as good or better than 505.01 5W40, others on this forum would have been praising it years ago.

Well i stuck 507.00 in the engine which is a dpf version of 506.01 which in case is a long life 505.01.
The car lives in a cold climate and i can't check the mileage all the time of the wifes car since i am gone a lot.
Seems to run good, noticed new lifters had some kind of anti friction coating on them.
 

yahmon

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Yahmon,

All BHW engines sold in North America require 505.01 certified oil, and that comes in two flavors, a 5W30 and 5W40 version. As has been proven in a semi-scientific manner here on the boards by veteran members, 505.01 compliant/certified 5W40 helps protect camshafts better than 505.01 compliant/certified 5W30. I have 206k miles on my car, and have ALWAYS used 505.01 5W40 oil and I know this because I change it myself. I recently had to change the valve cover gasket, and my cam is in excellent condition with no galling present.

I think we all agree that viscosity breaks down over time and that 5W40 oils are not all created equal as they have different film strengths among other properties. 505.01 oils have to pass a certain threshold to be certified by VW, and certain 5W30 and 5W40 oils may pass it, but I think from real world experience, the latter is a better choice.

You may think that viscosity plays a greater factor than the classification of 505.01, but given that you toasted a cam because of your own negligence, coming here to ask for advice and then rebuking it won't win many friends. Heed the sage advice given here by some of the veteran members who have owned these cars since the day they were new, lived through the problems and figured out how to fix them.

Newbies to this forum, please read, understand and heed advice. These issues are not new to this forum, just new to you. It would appear that many B5.5 TDI's are changing owners these days, and the problems unique to these cars are being inherited by unsuspecting new owners.

Enough said.
I am now using liqui moly top tech 4200 long life III.
It covers 505.01, 506.01 and 507.00
The only thing i was asking if there is a 507.00 5w40
The cam issue i was well aware of and i think that vw even has upgraded these parts.
Alchemy, I was saying the old viscosity numbers don't mean much, but 505.01 does, and so does 506.01 which is a long life version of 505.01 and then 507.00 just ads particulate filter equipped vehicles.
Then look at viscosity index, @175 for this oil it stands out.
At for example 110 degrees Celsius oil temp it is therefore possible for a high quality 5w30 oil to have a higher viscosity then a lower quality 5w40
I am not sure what i am rebuking, people keep saying that 5w30 kills a cam and i don't buy that, it has nothing to do with making friends but just separating facts from fiction.
I might be new to this forum but i am not a newbie to engines for that matter and most certainly not to oil. I am well aware what contributed to the cam problems, and it was not 5w30, because i never had it in there before. It had 505.01 5w40 the entire time since i owned it but got 505.00 5w40 in it once.
Just because some people say 5w40 is the only way, doesn't make it necessarily true.
 

yahmon

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"Seems to run good" is anecdotal and has nothing to do with long term performance of the oil in protecting the critical parts of the engine. If 507.00 oil is so good and worked as good or better than 505.01 5W40, others on this forum would have been praising it years ago.
I was simply referring to the fact that all is back to normal after the cam and lifter job
 

turbocharged798

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5W-30 has a lower film strength than 5W-40 and thus causes a flat tappet cam wear faster. Even the older VE engines had cam wear issues on 5W-30 and the narrow PD lobes just make it even worse.

Bottom line is you can run what you like in your car but 5W-30 has killed a lot of PD cams. Even your owner's manual states to use 5W-40 if possible.
 
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